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Old 01-14-08, 04:46 PM   #1
Hocam
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Portland Bike Boxes

See the times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/us...=portland+bike

Just curious to hear people's responses and thoughts on the bike box concept.

In Philadelphia I see so many people pull into the bike lane (to the right of stopped traffic, effectively making a new lane) to make a right turn that I don't see it working in all cases but it may help. I'd like to see the addition of a raised curb starting at the stop bar of the intersection and extending back 5-10 feet to prevent cars from squeezing the bike lane during a turn, but that would be very expensive to do and make paving operations difficult, unlike painting boxes.
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Old 01-14-08, 08:23 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Hocam View Post
See the times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/us...=portland+bike

Just curious to hear people's responses and thoughts on the bike box concept.

In Philadelphia I see so many people pull into the bike lane (to the right of stopped traffic, effectively making a new lane) to make a right turn that I don't see it working in all cases but it may help. I'd like to see the addition of a raised curb starting at the stop bar of the intersection and extending back 5-10 feet to prevent cars from squeezing the bike lane during a turn, but that would be very expensive to do and make paving operations difficult, unlike painting boxes.
Why do you not want motorists making their turn from the far right portion of the roadway? Would you rather them right hook you by turning across your path? If a motorist is turning right, get out of the bike lane and pass them on the left. Seems a lot easier than mucking up intersections with boxes and curbs.

And yes, when I'm driving in Philly, I make my right turns from as far right as practicable which often means driving in the bike lane.
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Old 01-14-08, 08:26 PM   #3
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m as far right as practicable which often means driving in the bike lane.

Inexcusable.
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Old 01-14-08, 08:33 PM   #4
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SUBCHAPTER C
TURNING, STARTING AND SIGNALS

§ 3331. Required position and method of turning.
(a) Right turn.--The driver of a vehicle intending to turn right shall approach the turn and make the
turn as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms.../chapter33.pdf

Are bike lanes not part of the roadway?
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Old 01-14-08, 08:34 PM   #5
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SUBCHAPTER C
TURNING, STARTING AND SIGNALS

§ 3331. Required position and method of turning.
(a) Right turn.--The driver of a vehicle intending to turn right shall approach the turn and make the
turn as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms.../chapter33.pdf

Are bike lanes not part of the roadway?
Selfish, too.
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Old 01-14-08, 08:38 PM   #6
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Selfish, too.
Please elaborate, first why it is "inexcuseable" for me to drive in a bike lane during my approach for a right turn, and second why I am selfish. I'm really curious about how you came to the conclusion of the latter. Was it based on my quoting the vehicle code? If so, fascinating
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Old 01-14-08, 10:40 PM   #7
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Bike Boxes

I recently wrote a blog about this new traffic thing. I think it's great. ANYTHING... ANYTHING that gives cyclists a greater prominence on the road is a welcome change. My only question is: Is it to little to late?
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Old 01-14-08, 10:58 PM   #8
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I expect cars to merge into the bike lane before making a right turn. It's safer for the car and me. It's tough to right-hook a cyclist who's behind you...
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Old 01-15-08, 05:58 AM   #9
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I remember in California that while driving a car you're required to merge into the bike lane just before making a right turn.
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Old 01-15-08, 09:33 AM   #10
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Seems I was wrong on this one.

In heavy traffic it's easy to get 'boxed in' and not be able to merge left.

Anyone have any thoughts on the bike boxes?
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Old 01-15-08, 12:07 PM   #11
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Anyone have any thoughts on the bike boxes?

Bike boxes are another dumb idea born of the same thinking that brought us the right-hooks they propose to solve. They don't do anything to prevent in-motion right-hooks, they may even encourage ill-advised attempts to ride to the front of the queue. The kind of crashes they are designed to prevent (those that occur from a stop at a red light) can be prevented by cyclists merging into the traffic lane before the intersection... or at least not rolling up on the right side of large vehicles.

Portland needs to put away the blue paint and take a sober look at its bike lanes and the issues created by supplanting education with infrastructure. It's completely irresponsible to continue spending money on engineering "solutions" to stupid roadway design that encourages unsafe cycling practices.

The cycling community needs to wake up about this. It's not helping us!
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Old 01-15-08, 12:16 PM   #12
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Bike boxes are another dumb idea born of the same thinking that brought us the right-hooks they propose to solve. They don't do anything to prevent in-motion right-hooks, they may even encourage ill-advised attempts to ride to the front of the queue. The kind of crashes they are designed to prevent (those that occur from a stop at a red light) can be prevented by cyclists merging into the traffic lane before the intersection... or at least not rolling up on the right side of large vehicles.

Portland needs to put away the blue paint and take a sober look at its bike lanes and the issues created by supplanting education with infrastructure. It's completely irresponsible to continue spending money on engineering "solutions" to stupid roadway design that encourages unsafe cycling practices.

The cycling community needs to wake up about this. It's not helping us!
+1x10E6

too bad the 'safety gurus' at PDOT don't agree with you.

I am actually with BOB and JoeJack on this one. At least a few years ago PDOT was striping bike lanes to the left of the RTOL. It seems the bureaucrats in charge have given up on that idea. What I don't understand is why these right hook bike boxes are acceptable, but sharrows still aren't.

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