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Old 03-05-08, 07:25 AM   #1
craigdurkee
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cyclist gives herself up

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...58-661,00.html
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Old 03-05-08, 07:44 AM   #2
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Fair is fair.
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Old 03-05-08, 09:42 AM   #3
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"Mr Pallas refused to comment specifically on yesterday's case. But he said cyclists should be held accountable and be heavily punished for serious offences."

"Debate over lenient treatment of cyclists raged after a rider on Melbourne's notorious Beach Rd Hell Ride who ran a red light and killed an elderly pedestrian was fined just $400."
hmmmm, interesting. I'm not familiar with the laws in the land down under, however if it's anything like up here, the wrath against cyclists seems a bit out of place.

Heck there was a story up here in seattle of a guy that ran down a pedestrian, and was fined just $180 with no jail time at all. He also had hit and injured a cyclist before killing the pedestrian, and two months after killing the pedestrian, was cited for running a red light.

No jail time at all. Up here, as far as I know there are already laws against hit and run, which include cyclists. Do they not have the same laws down there? Are there examples of hit and run cagers getting harsher sentences than cyclists for similar crimes? I guess I don't understand the outrage.
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Old 03-05-08, 10:03 AM   #4
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In the case in question, the cyclist was in a large group ride. The people near the intersection called "Stopping" and stopped. Many people behind them called "Rolling" and passed the other stopped cyclists to run the red light at full speed. One of them plowed into an elderly doctor and killed him, and attempted to argue his non-responsibility using excuses that sounded like some of the worst cagers' excuses possible. Based on the charges against the cyclist, the judge claimed to only be able to levy a $400 AUD fine, amid explosions of hatred of bicyclists in all the media. Ever since then, any sort of attempt to gain even the slightest improvements in safety or legislation for bikes has been shot down with extreme prejudice, and laws have been appearing to limit or marginalize bikes, cheered on by the local media and hate radio.

This is why i've been so adamant that bikes need to stop at the damn red lights and not blow through them - one or two more events like that at the right time, and there were and are lots of bicyclists blowing through red lights at full speed right afterward, and they damned well could have had the public support and political will to have bicycles outlawed there outright.
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Old 03-05-08, 10:18 AM   #5
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This is one reason I am so uncomfortable on large group rides. I greatly prefer solo and small groups.
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Old 03-05-08, 10:22 AM   #6
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It's an interesting proposition/situation.

I'm all for holding cyclists accountable for infractions, but can anyone say the chances of a cyclist hurting someone else are the same as a motorist chances of the same?

Lots of time, I hear complaints of motorists getting away with hurting others with hardly any repercussions. Are cyclists down under hurting others in any sort of comparable fashion, and are they due for punishment more severe than the aforementioned motorists?
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Old 03-05-08, 02:45 PM   #7
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Objectively? No.
According to public perception in the area, due to the media frenzy over the "Hell Ride" and death of the pedestrian caused by a red light running cyclist, yes.
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Old 03-05-08, 02:59 PM   #8
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Two things:

Sauce for the goose,sauce for the gander. I've no problem with a cyclist that kills someone getting the book thrown at them. But I expect the same thing to happen to a driver who kills someone. It doesn't matter what kind of vehicle you have,if you kill someone because you were doing something dangerous/stupid,then you deserve to be punished.

Second,I'm witholding comment on this case until more facts are in. The article says the victim was hit getting off the tram,but then goes on to say witnesses said he was struck while crossing in front of it. It also seems most of the witnesses thought the cyclist was male. Bit of an odd piece of writing.
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Old 03-05-08, 05:05 PM   #9
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Sauce for the goose,sauce for the gander. I've no problem with a cyclist that kills someone getting the book thrown at them. But I expect the same thing to happen to a driver who kills someone. It doesn't matter what kind of vehicle you have, if you kill someone because you were doing something dangerous/stupid, then you deserve to be punished.
+1, well said.
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Old 03-05-08, 05:46 PM   #10
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I'm unaware of any traffic violation penalty scale that has different penalties depending on vehicle choice. Makes me wonder what they're actually going to change. $400 fine for killing a pedestrian seems to me to be in concordance with the penalties for motorists doing the same thing.

Funny how all the dipwads with nothing but petrol fumes in their heads start foaming about a single incident, when in the time it takes them to post their diatribes how many people are killed in or by cars? Where's the call to ban cars from the road when someone gets killed? Hypocrites.
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Old 03-05-08, 06:00 PM   #11
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Funny how all the dipwads with nothing but petrol fumes in their heads start foaming about a single incident, when in the time it takes them to post their diatribes how many people are killed in or by cars? Where's the call to ban cars from the road when someone gets killed? Hypocrites.
i've long ago given up the idea that people can fairly evaluate anything without interjecting their own prejudices.

i read some of the comments and they are always the same...'cyclists should have to register', 'i once got hit by a cyclist...they're dangerous', 'they look like fools in spandex', blah, blah, blah.
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Old 03-05-08, 07:52 PM   #12
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Strange newspaper article - it states that a female cyclist handed herself into police for a hit and run. Then goes on at length to discuss a hit and run by a man who injured a jaywalking old pedestrian
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Old 03-05-08, 08:10 PM   #13
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Well, to be fair, cyclists in full kit can tend to look a little asexual. I know there's been a couple of times riding when I've been approaching what I thought was a female cyclist from behind, thinking to myself 'nice arse', only to discover as I get closer that it was a guy.
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Old 03-05-08, 08:32 PM   #14
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Strange newspaper article - it states that a female cyclist handed herself into police for a hit and run. Then goes on at length to discuss a hit and run by a man who injured a jaywalking old pedestrian
Yeah I wasn't sure if they were talking about two different cases, or if the cyclist was first thought to be male and then turned out to be female, and the paper failed to correct the gender in the later part of the article.
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Old 03-05-08, 09:28 PM   #15
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It often happens that newspapers just paste new parts of a story into the stuff already written, but usually it is done with more grace.
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Old 03-05-08, 10:26 PM   #16
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Debate over lenient treatment of cyclists raged after a rider on Melbourne's notorious Beach Rd Hell Ride who ran a red light and killed an elderly pedestrian was fined just $400.
Given the anti-cyclist sentiment that seems to crop up in Australian newspapers, the above quote seems to sum up the intent of the article.
The risks of a pedestrian crossing in front of a bus after disembarking, rather than waiting on the adjacent sidewalk, are obvious.

In the end, everyone loses in a tragedy.
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Old 03-06-08, 02:26 PM   #17
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This is one reason I am so uncomfortable on large group rides. I greatly prefer solo and small groups.
It depends on the group. People are great around here (southwest VA), but when I lived in CA I never rode with the OC Wheelmen for this reason -- they were obnoxious. I wouldn't want to be associated with them.

A bicyclist should be treated the same as anyone else if he or she hurts or kills someone.

Bicyclists complain about not being respected by motorists but then turn around and do the same thing to pedestrians.
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Old 03-06-08, 02:51 PM   #18
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Strange newspaper article - it states that a female cyclist handed herself into police for a hit and run. Then goes on at length to discuss a hit and run by a man who injured a jaywalking old pedestrian
Yeah and further had a discussion on planned bike paths. It was a really disjointed story.
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Old 03-06-08, 05:44 PM   #19
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A bicyclist should be treated the same as anyone else if he or she hurts or kills someone.
Perfectly true

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Bicyclists complain about not being respected by motorists but then turn around and do the same thing to pedestrians.
That's not the problem here. The problem here is that cyclists hitting and injuring/killing pedestrians is a pretty rare occurrence, which is why it made the news. Yes, throw the full weight of the law at anyone that is found to be at fault, but to then have the peanut gallery braying for all cyclist's blood (or at least to ban them from the road) is irrational and hypocritical.

Note in the coments (at least the last time i looked), not a single person that identified themself as a cyclist made any mention of going easy on a cyclist that's broken the law and injured someone. It's a stark contrast to the non-cyclist's attitudes.

We should be applauding the cyclists for at least turning herself in. Chances are she didn't even realise how badly he was injured until seeing the news report. For a bit of perspective on the matter, google 'Eugene McGee'.
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Old 03-06-08, 05:47 PM   #20
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Given the anti-cyclist sentiment that seems to crop up in Australian newspapers, the above quote seems to sum up the intent of the article.
I don't think that's peculiar to Australia. I've seen that and worse in articles posted here from US and UK papers.
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Old 03-08-08, 09:49 AM   #21
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The risks of a pedestrian crossing in front of a bus after disembarking, rather than waiting on the adjacent sidewalk, are obvious.
Never seen Melbourne, have you? Tram passengers disembark into the traffic lane, as the tram lines are essentially a thick centreline of the road. On major stops, there is a wider patch where the stops are where passengers might pause in the middle of the road before actually entering the traffic lane.
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Old 03-09-08, 09:25 PM   #22
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I don't think that's peculiar to Australia. I've seen that and worse in articles posted here from US and UK papers.
It's a problem in many places.
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Old 03-09-08, 09:30 PM   #23
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Never seen Melbourne, have you? Tram passengers disembark into the traffic lane, as the tram lines are essentially a thick centreline of the road. On major stops, there is a wider patch where the stops are where passengers might pause in the middle of the road before actually entering the traffic lane.
Sounds like Melbourne traffic planners should come visit us here in Gothenburg. We have very safe tram stops. They're almost miniature railway stations...
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