Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-27-08, 02:43 PM   #1
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
Thread Starter
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
Posts: 5,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
"Stupider" bike lane contest

http://www.slatev.com/player.html?id=1475273846
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-08, 03:07 PM   #2
Rahzel
Senior Member
 
Rahzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Gainesville, FL
Bikes: Trek 1500 road bike, Giant Trinity Alliance tri bike
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=392800
Rahzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-08, 03:15 PM   #3
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,968
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 854 Post(s)
OK so perhaps the real question we should ask is why? Why is it that any cyclist can see such bike lanes and laugh (or cry) but the "engineer" that wrote the work order or reviewed the work can't see that such things are just beyond stupid?

I am an engineer and frankly these traffic engineers that allow stupid bike lanes are giving engineers bad names.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-08, 03:21 PM   #4
catherine96821
Look 555 fledgling
 
catherine96821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oahu
Bikes: Vitus road bike, I bought used, graduated to a LOOK 555
Posts: 313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Honolulu is an old city and we have very bad bike lanes. They basically just give us some marked space wherever it is and they all feed you right into death traps. We kill about 100 peds a year. Cyclists are not even on the radar yet.
catherine96821 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-08, 05:49 PM   #5
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
OK so perhaps the real question we should ask is why? Why is it that any cyclist can see such bike lanes and laugh (or cry) but the "engineer" that wrote the work order or reviewed the work can't see that such things are just beyond stupid?

I am an engineer and frankly these traffic engineers that allow stupid bike lanes are giving engineers bad names.
I don't know what it's like there, but here, government departments aren't exactly environments conducive to change or innovation or even thinking very hard, and the people who design roads are no exception.
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-08, 08:28 PM   #6
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
It's stupid, but no stupider than most every other urban bike lanes, its just a shorter example.

It's length is not an attribute that makes it good or bad - it only affects how much of that quality there is . The placement of the lane striping relative to parked cars and the intersections are two attributes that alone make it a stupid bike lane. It is fortunate that it does not continue for any more blocks than this one - that would make it stupid*blocks

Al
noisebeam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-08, 10:31 PM   #7
ChipSeal
www.chipsea.blogspot.com
 
ChipSeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Bikes: Giant OCR C0 road
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bad lane in England

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLsloDzYZ9g&NR=1


More England, extraordinarily narrow bike lane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMhKCvPgvAA

In York England, three horrible bike lanes:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9onKKAnzhOU


From Portland Oregon

Here is a photo of a intersection with poor planning:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2406/...dfcf5aa3_o.jpg

Closer:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3209/...47ba5d14_o.jpg
ChipSeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-08, 10:38 PM   #8
randya
Senior Member
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the worst intersections for cyclists in Portland are the result of interstate highway overlays. get rid of the highways and the highest hazard intersections would all go away overnight.
randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-08, 12:11 AM   #9
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by randya View Post
the worst intersections for cyclists in Portland are the result of interstate highway overlays. get rid of the highways and the highest hazard intersections would all go away overnight.
LOL. Well that should be simple enough to do.
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-08, 02:29 AM   #10
BOIP
hostle and flow
 
BOIP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Danville, CA
Bikes: Bianchi Brava (2006)
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
Bad lane in England
From Portland Oregon

Here is a photo of a intersection with poor planning:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2406/...dfcf5aa3_o.jpg

Closer:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3209/...47ba5d14_o.jpg
contrasted with tunnel rd. and SR-13 in oakland, CA...



i think the design found in the thumbnail is good, as it separates the through surface road bicycle traffic from the highway on-ramp traffic well before the intersection. the only problem i've encountered is that the approach to the bike lane merge left is on an incline (coupled with motorists' tendency to speed).

***
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
OK so perhaps the real question we should ask is why? Why is it that any cyclist can see such bike lanes and laugh (or cry) but the "engineer" that wrote the work order or reviewed the work can't see that such things are just beyond stupid?
because most of the time the traffic engineers who design bicycle (or--my favorite--transit) facilities are not users of said facilities. in the case of designing proper bicycle facilities, they do not have the benefit of a bicyclist's perspective. or, at least i like to think that is the case rather than poor design being out of spite
BOIP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-08, 05:02 AM   #11
Little Darwin
The Improbable Bulk
 
Little Darwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Bikes: Many
Posts: 8,402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
As bad as some of these bike lanes are, you should try riding in an area where there are no bike lanes, and little tolerance for bikes (unless gasoline powered and noisy).

Those shown in Portland would be a dream come true here. Crossing a high speed turn lane doesn't have a good solution that I have seen.
__________________
Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA

People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Little Darwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-08, 05:05 AM   #12
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOIP View Post
because most of the time the traffic engineers who design bicycle (or--my favorite--transit) facilities are not users of said facilities. in the case of designing proper bicycle facilities, they do not have the benefit of a bicyclist's perspective. or, at least i like to think that is the case rather than poor design being out of spite
Or, to put it another way, never attribute to malice that which can be readily attributed to incompetence.
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-08, 07:27 AM   #13
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
Posts: 17,307
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by randya View Post
the worst intersections for cyclists in Portland are the result of interstate highway overlays. get rid of the highways and the highest hazard intersections would all go away overnight.
That is a problem in most of the U.S., because the freeway engineers design the interfaces between the freeways and the remainder of the road system, and in their 1950s car culture mindset, they really do not care about the safety and efficiency of pedestrians or bicyclists. It is time for local authorities, accountable to local residents, to take charge of these intersections. Freeway-style free merges and diverges are great on freeways themselves, but they are inappropriate at the mouths of access ramps.

Novel idea: Let's do away with those freeway ramp meters, which keep ramps from functioning properly as acceleration lanes (much-needed for many of us with underpowered cars), and traffic calm the mouths of the ramps.
__________________
"Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-08, 08:14 AM   #14
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,968
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 854 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by John E View Post

Novel idea: Let's do away with those freeway ramp meters, which keep ramps from functioning properly as acceleration lanes (much-needed for many of us with underpowered cars), and traffic calm the mouths of the ramps.
Novel and good... too bad you are not a traffic engineer. Those meter lights have always driven me crazy... a ramp designed for merging then stifled with a light.

That is akin to putting fat heavy wheels on a CF racing bike.

Traffic calming the mouth of the ramp would slow the access to the ramp and "meter" the flow of traffic automatically. It would also allow for a graceful way to transition from lower speed streets to on ramps... we would not need 55MPH arterials acting like pseudo freeways. Lower speed streets feeding traffic calmed ramps could control the flow of traffic quite well.

John didn't mention a study that shows that road speeds above 40MPH are NOT conducive to good flow?
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-08, 08:45 AM   #15
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
OK so perhaps the real question we should ask is why? Why is it that any cyclist can see such bike lanes and laugh (or cry) but the "engineer" that wrote the work order or reviewed the work can't see that such things are just beyond stupid?

I am an engineer and frankly these traffic engineers that allow stupid bike lanes are giving engineers bad names.
To me it looks like the engineer did a good job or the job asked of them. Most likely that block was up for re-striping due to some other work that had been done, or perhaps funding available - I see that happen all the time in cities. So the engineer designed a bike lane striping that for that block meets AASTHO guidelines. They did everything that was asked of them - if the other blocks also get re-engineered at some future date then what has already been put in place would not need to be changed. That sounds successful to me.

Al
noisebeam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-08, 01:26 PM   #16
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
Thread Starter
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
Posts: 5,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Part II

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1504447505
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:17 PM.