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  1. #1
    One speed: FAST ! fordfasterr's Avatar
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    Town of Jupiter Island vs. The Bicycle

    This town and a few others nearby are trying to set their own limits as to how many bicycles can ride in a group. The motorists from this town are specifically targeting weekend training groups that take up the entire lane.

    The Jupiter Island Public Safety Department has scheduled a meeting that they call a "bicycle safety workshop" on April 11, 2008 @ 7 pm at the Jupiter Island Town Hall, located at 2 S.E. Bridge Road, Hobe Sound Florida.

    To attend, you must RSVP with Melissa Cianton with the JIPSD @ 772-545-0112

    The purpose of the meeting is to:

    . Converse on ways to improve the bicycle safety on the roads of Jupiter Island.

    . Come up with some positive solutions to the ongoing issues relating to large groups and packs who ride on the roadways of Jupiter Island.

    . Discuss the Florida Statute 316 and how it relates to bicycles (Hello? It is specifically about bicycles).

    . The potential changes by the Jupiter Island Town Commissioners relating to bicycle riders.

    They want to "hear your comments and suggestions on the matter at hand".

    _______________

    I hope to make it, but I can't promise because of my school and work obligations however, I would like to encourage anyone who lives in the area to RSVP and attend. Who knows what these crazy people are going to do with the ordinances in their town... Next thing you know, bicycles will be outlawed and everyone must drive an SUV.
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  2. #2
    52-week commuter DCCommuter's Avatar
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    Sounds like they are confusing "safety" and "convenience."

    I hope that the people of Jupiter Island have the sense to check with competent legal counsel before wasting a lot of the taxpayers' money. Florida law prohibits municipalities from enacting traffic laws that contravene state law. And Florida state law is pretty generous in the rights it gives to cyclists.
    The United States of America is the only democratic nation in the world to deny citizens living in the nation's capital representation in the national legislature. District residents have no vote in either the U.S. Senate or U.S. House of Representatives. www.dcvote.org

  3. #3
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Go and fight. Several cycling advocates from Los Angeles, Orange, and San Diego Counties did a superb job shooting down the City of Dana Point's proposed ban on bicycles on Coast Highway 101.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
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  4. #4
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    is riding more than "two abreast" #(6) an enforceable offence? are the bicyclists "taking the lane" for safety reasons? are the bicyclists "sharing the road" or is it like a "critical mass" ride down there?

    thanks for the clarity!

  5. #5
    One speed: FAST ! fordfasterr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    Go and fight. Several cycling advocates from Los Angeles, Orange, and San Diego Counties did a superb job shooting down the City of Dana Point's proposed ban on bicycles on Coast Highway 101.
    I would love to read a transcript of the proposed changes, and the arguments against them by the bicycle advocacy people...

    It can bring to light some good tips for the cyclists in our area to fight these communists, oops.. I mean, commissioners.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member LCI_Brian's Avatar
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    Here's what they wanted to enact in Dana Point: http://danapointdocs.org/agendas/08-23-06/19.pdf
    Here's a summary of what happened: http://www.cabobike.org/pchban.htm
    Powerpoint shown to the area clubs, which includes the presentation given to the city traffic commission: http://www.cyclistview.com/danapoint/index.htm
    Last edited by LCI_Brian; 04-03-08 at 08:01 AM.

  7. #7
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCI_Brian View Post
    Here's what they wanted to enact in Dana Point: http://danapointdocs.org/agendas/08-23-06/19.pdf
    Here's a summary of what happened: http://www.cabobike.org/pchban.htm
    Powerpoint shown to the area clubs, which includes the presentation given to the city traffic commission: http://www.cyclistview.com/danapoint/index.htm
    Brian was one of the key cycling advocates who won the day for all of us.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
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  8. #8
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCI_Brian View Post
    Here's what they wanted to enact in Dana Point: http://danapointdocs.org/agendas/08-23-06/19.pdf
    Here's a summary of what happened: http://www.cabobike.org/pchban.htm
    Powerpoint shown to the area clubs, which includes the presentation given to the city traffic commission: http://www.cyclistview.com/danapoint/index.htm
    I tip my hat to you LCI_Brian for a job well done.

    I take particular offense at this particular line of reasoning: "No person shall ride, use or propel a bicycle, scooter, skateboard, roller skates or other wheeled toy..."

    Their thinking was too obvious... I wonder however what they might consider a classic car bought only for "cruising." Certainly seems like a "wheeled toy" to me.
    Last edited by genec; 04-03-08 at 08:34 AM.

  9. #9
    52-week commuter DCCommuter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomg View Post
    is riding more than "two abreast" #(6) an enforceable offence?
    Why would it not be "an enforceable offence?"
    The United States of America is the only democratic nation in the world to deny citizens living in the nation's capital representation in the national legislature. District residents have no vote in either the U.S. Senate or U.S. House of Representatives. www.dcvote.org

  10. #10
    Mister Bleak! mconlonx's Avatar
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    I'd urge anyone living there to attend the meeting even if you're not going to speak. You won't get a sense of what goes down otherwise--official reports will leave out most of what you'd want to hear about. Plus, sheer numnbers of bodies make a difference. Be carrying your helmet to indicate where you stand...

    At the meeting, be reasonable and calm--refute what others might have misrepresented, but don't rant. This is not the venue to spew forth all your built up anger at motorists, this is the time to show how reasonable you are.

  11. #11
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    I would think that the presence of commuters, with helmets and bags of stuff, might carry special weight: not (to stereotype from the motorists' perspective) those wacky aggressive unpredictable roadies, but people just trying to get from one place to another.
    Last edited by savethekudzu; 04-03-08 at 11:15 AM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member murphstahoe's Avatar
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    Tiger Woods lives in Jupiter Island. Get his buddy Lance to give his opinion on the topic...

  13. #13
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    So cyclists are objecting to the fact that they might not be allowed to ride two or three abreast and block the lane, thus creating danger for themselves as well as motorists who are force to change lanes to pass them? Where I live, cyclists are required by law to ride single file.

  14. #14
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone Wrench View Post
    So cyclists are objecting to the fact that they might not be allowed to ride two or three abreast and block the lane, thus creating danger for themselves as well as motorists who are force to change lanes to pass them? Where I live, cyclists are required by law to ride single file.
    Wait a minute... if motorists are changing lanes anyway... what does it matter if you are one or many abreast. And just how dangerous is it for motorists to change lanes... they do it all the time... some even weave in and out of traffic as if it is standing still.

    There is hardly any danger to motorists changing lanes.

  15. #15
    52-week commuter DCCommuter's Avatar
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    The town could solve this problem by painting bike lanes. My take on the Florida keep-right law is that it would require cyclists to use bike lanes.
    The United States of America is the only democratic nation in the world to deny citizens living in the nation's capital representation in the national legislature. District residents have no vote in either the U.S. Senate or U.S. House of Representatives. www.dcvote.org

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Wait a minute... if motorists are changing lanes anyway... what does it matter if you are one or many abreast. And just how dangerous is it for motorists to change lanes... they do it all the time... some even weave in and out of traffic as if it is standing still.

    There is hardly any danger to motorists changing lanes.
    Well, I was thinking more about two lane highways where the car has to wait at 20 to 30 mph on a 50 mph highway while a pack meanders down the road. Even if the driver follows all the rules and only passes when it is safe, there is still inherently increased risk from going into the oncoming traffic lane. Public highways are not really intended for organized sporting events.

  17. #17
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone Wrench View Post
    Well, I was thinking more about two lane highways where the car has to wait at 20 to 30 mph on a 50 mph highway while a pack meanders down the road. Even if the driver follows all the rules and only passes when it is safe, there is still inherently increased risk from going into the oncoming traffic lane. Public highways are not really intended for organized sporting events.
    So should we ban farm tractors from such roads too... as they also move at slower speeds and tend to block traffic...

    Perhaps we should just consider that said motorist is "well convenienced" and should have no problem waiting just a bit in their comfortable multi-passenger vehicle. It's all a matter of perspective.

  18. #18
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    If groups are prohibited, then the alternative is to have each cyclist ride as an individual with 20ft spacing between them. I'd guess that motorists would find that even more problematic.

    Al

  19. #19
    52-week commuter DCCommuter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    If groups are prohibited, then the alternative is to have each cyclist ride as an individual with 20ft spacing between them. I'd guess that motorists would find that even more problematic.

    Al
    Alternately, if they limit the size of groups, as they are proposing, what they would get is more, smaller groups, which I don't think would make anyone happy either.

    I do have to admire their restraint. A lot of places would have just told the cops to go out and ticket the cyclists.
    The United States of America is the only democratic nation in the world to deny citizens living in the nation's capital representation in the national legislature. District residents have no vote in either the U.S. Senate or U.S. House of Representatives. www.dcvote.org

  20. #20
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Im going to try to be there.
    The speed limit is 25 mph on the parts of the island that I might
    believe the most vocal complaints would come from, well under
    what fast roadies can do, so Its really is just a case of the bourgeous
    yup trash that plagues the island not liking cyclists. Also, the cyclists
    will 'lose'. These proceedings are just going through the motions.
    Money rules all here. Unless we can outmoney them by tithing the proper
    officials, there will be no more club rides.

  21. #21
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone Wrench View Post
    Well, I was thinking more about two lane highways where the car has to wait at 20 to 30 mph on a 50 mph highway while a pack meanders down the road. Even if the driver follows all the rules and only passes when it is safe, there is still inherently increased risk from going into the oncoming traffic lane. Public highways are not really intended for organized sporting events.
    I believe the key word is public, and I would object to the characterization of cycling as 'sport' in much the same way genec objects to the characterization of bicycles as toys.

    Public roads are for people, and not just people in motor vehicles.



  22. #22
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCCommuter View Post
    Alternately, if they limit the size of groups, as they are proposing, what they would get is more, smaller groups, which I don't think would make anyone happy either.

    I do have to admire their restraint. A lot of places would have just told the cops to go out and ticket the cyclists.
    Oh what grounds.... if they are riding legally?

  23. #23
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    As far as I know, there's no limitations on what anyone can use a road for. Anyone that claims anyone else should only use the road for 'legitimate' purposes is an idiot. As far as I'm concerned, if a motorist has to wait the entire length of the road before they can overtake safely, whether they believe they should be there or not, stiff ***** - that's the law.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  24. #24
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allister View Post
    As far as I know, there's no limitations on what anyone can use a road for. Anyone that claims anyone else should only use the road for 'legitimate' purposes is an idiot. As far as I'm concerned, if a motorist has to wait the entire length of the road before they can overtake safely, whether they believe they should be there or not, stiff ***** - that's the law.
    Actually there are limitations... the first I can think of is a parade... it may be that the local public officials are going to try limiting cyclists actions based on an organized group being a parade... I believe that was one tactic that was tried in New York city against critical mass.

    And of course who knows what laws can be quickly passed to make life difficult...

  25. #25
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    The daily traffic jam on any road could just as logically be called a 'parade'. A group of like vehicles travelling in the same direction at the same time is not automatically a 'parade' just because some impatient drivers want to stop it. Whether it's 'organised' or not is irrelevant.

    Personally, I'm hoping reasonableness prevails, and this issue is rejected for the selfishness it is.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

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