Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-07-08, 02:35 PM   #1
The Human Car
-=Barry=-
Thread Starter
 
The Human Car's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Bikes:
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is there life in A&S after the antagonists are gone?

I'm curious what others think, overly quiet this week or finally some decent decorum around here?

Keep in mind that I am NOT hinting that HH or JF be given the freedom to do and say whatever they want but so far I think this forum is lacking a certain "entertainment" value that it had. So I find myself thinking (out loud) it might be interesting to allow these guys one week a month to stir things up but not too much time to drag things into the ground. Well that's my random thought for the day,
__________________
Cycling Advocate
http://BaltimoreSpokes.org
. . . o
. . /L
=()>()

Last edited by The Human Car; 04-07-08 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Grammar
The Human Car is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 03:02 PM   #2
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,631
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Well I think that at least HH brought some ideas to the table... granted some may be a bit over the top, but he provoked discussion.

I'm not so sure about JF... he seems to be pretty curmudgeonly about his responses... I find it rather telling that he keeps pulling out "bikeways" as an over all negative comment, not willing to "entertain" that indeed there is a difference between bike paths, bike lanes and sidepaths.
genec is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 03:24 PM   #3
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,782
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
When did this happen and how long are the bannings for?
AlmostTrick is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 03:50 PM   #4
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Posts: 10,227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Wait, John Forester is banned from BF?
cooker is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 04:01 PM   #5
Ed Holland
8speed DinoSORAs
 
Ed Holland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oxford, UK or Mountain View, Ca
Bikes:
Posts: 2,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, for a week I understand.

Banned Users

And HH, apparently forever! (though the date of this post is April 1)

Banned Users


Ed
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
Ed Holland is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 04:05 PM   #6
CommuterRun
Conservative Hippie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wakulla Co. FL
Bikes:
Posts: 4,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If those two are gone there's a couple others that need to be. Fair is fair.
CommuterRun is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 04:10 PM   #7
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,631
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
When did this happen and how long are the bannings for?
Banned Users
Helmet Head, permanent ban, chronic inability to be a beneficial member of the Bike Forums community.

Banned Users
John Forester, trolling insulting other members. 1 week.
genec is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 04:17 PM   #8
The Human Car
-=Barry=-
Thread Starter
 
The Human Car's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Bikes:
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll start off with a joke:

Two guys are sitting in a plane and one asks the other "What time is it?" and the other responds "No you can't marry my daughter." The first guy is like WTF? and the other explains that if he tells him the time they will start chatting and become friends. And with being friends he will eventually be invited to the house where he'll meet his beautiful daughter, fall in love and will ask for her hand in marriage. So to simplify things he just answered the critical part of the line of questioning.

For JF I think his decades of experience has lead him to this kind of reasoning, it may very well be that the process of answering a question eventually comes down to bike lanes (No you can't marry my daughter) but even so that does not make "No you can't marry my daughter" (bike lanes) a valid response to "What time is it?" There is a more appropriate place and response to interrupt this process then jumping to the "heart" of the matter.

With JF I remain pessimistic that he can provide an appropriate response for the discussion at hand without some giant leap in logic (positive spin) or trolling his anti-bikeway agenda (negative spin.)

And sort of bouncing of Gene's post if I had to pick one or the other I too would prefer HH over JF and the fact that next week is going to be the opposite is ... well something to think about.
__________________
Cycling Advocate
http://BaltimoreSpokes.org
. . . o
. . /L
=()>()
The Human Car is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 04:18 PM   #9
The Human Car
-=Barry=-
Thread Starter
 
The Human Car's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Bikes:
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommuterRun View Post
If those two are gone there's a couple others that need to be. Fair is fair.
+1
__________________
Cycling Advocate
http://BaltimoreSpokes.org
. . . o
. . /L
=()>()
The Human Car is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 05:41 PM   #10
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Bikes:
Posts: 6,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, you can get baned for RickRolling. What has the world come to?
__________________
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
dobber is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 06:11 PM   #11
Ed Holland
8speed DinoSORAs
 
Ed Holland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oxford, UK or Mountain View, Ca
Bikes:
Posts: 2,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobber View Post
Wow, you can get baned for RickRolling. What has the world come to?
Well, for one, I was hoping never to hear of Mr Astley ever again... it was bad enough first time around.
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
Ed Holland is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 06:17 PM   #12
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm betting that the people that were put off from A&S primarily due to the 'antagonism' will gradually return (there's been a couple already), and with them more traffic. I remember this place pre-Serge, and I'm pretty sure it can be like that again. I don't miss him one iota.

Personally, I'm kinda surprised that Forester got banned. I never thought he was that bad, and he at least contains himself to the VC forum, and is an intermittent poster at the most.

Apart from that, if I know the internets, there's little doubt that sooner or later someone else will turn up to 'entertain' us.
Allister is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 06:36 PM   #13
DCCommuter
52-week commuter
 
DCCommuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Redline Conquest, Cannonday, Specialized, RANS
Posts: 1,929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommuterRun View Post
If those two are gone there's a couple others that need to be. Fair is fair.
I have to say I agree with that sentiment.

I never found those two to be among the most objectionable members. I don't agree with a lot of their ideas, but I generally believe that honest disagreement about ideas is a healthy thing, and I feel that they have been scapegoated mostly for having unpopular ideas. There are a few members of A&S who never learned to disagree respectfully with others, who feel to denigrate and attack personally those who disagree with them, mischaracterize the position of their opponents, and generally engage in ad hominem and straw-man attacks.

I'm bothered by the notion that VC has become a taboo topic for A&S. I never believed that the topic was the problem, rather the problem was that certain members were incapable of disagreeing with others in a respectful manner. And that problem was not isolated to one side of the debate.

There's a simple rule for respectful discourse: attacking a person's ideas is constructive, attacking a person himself is not. I wish that the moderators would apply that simple rule.
__________________
The United States of America is the only democratic nation in the world to deny citizens living in the nation's capital representation in the national legislature. District residents have no vote in either the U.S. Senate or U.S. House of Representatives. www.dcvote.org
DCCommuter is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 06:54 PM   #14
closetbiker
Senior Member
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
can't I get banned for all my helmet stuff?

A lot of people don't like it
closetbiker is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:00 PM   #15
derath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Reisterstown, MD
Bikes:
Posts: 3,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCCommuter View Post
I have to say I agree with that sentiment.

I never found those two to be among the most objectionable members. I don't agree with a lot of their ideas, but I generally believe that honest disagreement about ideas is a healthy thing, and I feel that they have been scapegoated mostly for having unpopular ideas. There are a few members of A&S who never learned to disagree respectfully with others, who feel to denigrate and attack personally those who disagree with them, mischaracterize the position of their opponents, and generally engage in ad hominem and straw-man attacks.

I'm bothered by the notion that VC has become a taboo topic for A&S. I never believed that the topic was the problem, rather the problem was that certain members were incapable of disagreeing with others in a respectful manner. And that problem was not isolated to one side of the debate.

There's a simple rule for respectful discourse: attacking a person's ideas is constructive, attacking a person himself is not. I wish that the moderators would apply that simple rule.
+1,000,000
derath is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:02 PM   #16
BarracksSi
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
 
BarracksSi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?
Posts: 13,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm surprised that I didn't get banned for some of the stuff I've posted (and got edited out by mods later).
BarracksSi is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:16 PM   #17
derath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Reisterstown, MD
Bikes:
Posts: 3,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Banned Users
Helmet Head, permanent ban, chronic inability to be a beneficial member of the Bike Forums community.
that has to be the lamest ban explanation I have ever seen. I fail to see how this breaks any forum guidelines. There are plenty of people who server no benefit on these boards. Most of us actually.

I didn't always agree with HH. He can tend to post the same argument ad nauseum. But unlike many who disagreed with him (who constantly belittled him etc) he was far more civil.

pathetic

-D
derath is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:23 PM   #18
Kurt Erlenbach
Senior Member
 
Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Space Coast, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 2,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
derath is correct. HH was overly verbose, but made good arguments. To say he had a "chronic inability to be a beneficial memeber of the Bike Forums community" is absolutely nuts.
Kurt Erlenbach is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:36 PM   #19
maddyfish
Senior Member
 
maddyfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ky. and FL.
Bikes: KHS steel SS
Posts: 3,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommuterRun View Post
If those two are gone there's a couple others that need to be. Fair is fair.
+2
maddyfish is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:38 PM   #20
maddyfish
Senior Member
 
maddyfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ky. and FL.
Bikes: KHS steel SS
Posts: 3,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
derath is correct. HH was overly verbose, but made good arguments.
If this means he was long winded, but had useful things to say, then I agree.

Last edited by maddyfish; 04-07-08 at 08:35 PM.
maddyfish is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:40 PM   #21
ghettocruiser
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: dropmachine.com
Bikes:
Posts: 4,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agreed with maybe 5% of those user's comments.

If there was a petition to un-ban them, I would sign it.
ghettocruiser is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:42 PM   #22
HoustonB
Βanned.
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland Oregon
Bikes: 1976 Dawes Galaxy, 1993 Trek 950 Single Track and Made-to-Measure Reynolds 753 road bike with Campag throughout.
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Metrics aside, "inability to be a beneficial member" is apparently grounds for a permanent ban, who would of guessed.

Can someone point to the "rule" that says membership here needs to be beneficial? And while we are at it, who gets to decide the definition of beneficial and who the benefactor is? Who does the measuring? How do they measure it? This has to be the most piss poor reason I've ever encountered for a permanent ban!

I'm guessing the true benefactors are the people at the top - and all the hackneyed cliches by Internet Brands, will do little to change that truth.

Corporate spin and main-stream-media style manipulation - this place is fast becoming truly sick.
HoustonB is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:44 PM   #23
-=(8)=-
♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯
 
-=(8)=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 40205 'ViLLeBiLLie
Bikes: Sngl Spd's, 70's- 80's vintage, D-tube Folder
Posts: 7,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BF has grown from Joes original community type board to a business venture, like it or not.
To have people who harangue other people and insult them (As HH did to me at first) and
bombard them with PMs critiquing every post ( yes, this was done too) is not in a business
persons best interest. Shortly you become aware that HH is a harmless wack and JF a
bloated windbag but I believe their presence was disruptive due to the items I mentioned
and the inability to not be able to rationally take part in any conversation and stay on
topic. 4,0000,00,0000000,00000 bytes on every thread to tell people they dont know what
they are talking about wont be missed by me.
__________________
-ADVOCACY-☜ Radical VC = Car people on bikes. Just say "NO"
-=(8)=- is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:52 PM   #24
Kurt Erlenbach
Senior Member
 
Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Space Coast, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 2,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=- View Post
BF has grown from Joes original community type board to a business venture, like it or not.
To have people who harangue other people and insult them (As HH did to me at first) and
bombard them with PMs critiquing every post ( yes, this was done too) is not in a business
persons best interest. Shortly you become aware that HH is a harmless wack and JF a
bloated windbag but I believe their presence was disruptive due to the items I mentioned
and the inability to not be able to rationally take part in any conversation and stay on
topic. 4,0000,00,0000000,00000 bytes on every thread to tell people they dont know what
they are talking about wont be missed by me.
Yeah, but that shouldn't get you banned.
Kurt Erlenbach is offline  
Old 04-07-08, 07:59 PM   #25
making
Super Moderator
 
making's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Augusta GA
Bikes: Road bike
Posts: 2,573
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
P&R turned out to be a happier place after a few bannings. I dunno, I would like to see everyone be able to stay but a lot of people, dare I say most people, dont like what feels like personal attacks when they first start posting on the forum, probably lose a lot more people than BF gains. stopping the disruption is for the greater good, and P&R is more fun. It seems the mods are doing well, at least for now.
making is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:17 AM.