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  1. #1
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    He hit cyclist, then hit a ped, now sentenced


  2. #2
    Senior Member Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
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    That is one tough case. I know the prevailing sentiment around here is that someone like hm should rot in prison, and that might be right. A very large civil judgment against him is the only real compensation for the victim's family, and a long prison sentence cannot deter negligence (except his own).

  3. #3
    Metalhead
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    As if the Jewish faith isn't dying enough as it is, they have to go around accidentally killing eachother.
    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker
    How many cars would be sold, I wonder, if they advertised just the wrecks?

  4. #4
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
    That is one tough case. I know the prevailing sentiment around here is that someone like hm should rot in prison, and that might be right. A very large civil judgment against him is the only real compensation for the victim's family, and a long prison sentence cannot deter negligence (except his own).
    Few perpetrators have the financial resources to make a "large civil judgment" effective.

    A well-publicized prison sentence, lifelong requirement for weekly public service work, and permanent driver's license revocation just might deter negligence.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
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  5. #5
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenPremier View Post
    As if the Jewish faith isn't dying enough as it is, they have to go around accidentally killing eachother.
    I'd like to argue with the notion that a driver talking on a cellphone who strikes a pedestrian has had an accident. That's the idea that keeps getting people like this defered sentences. Manslaughter is the right idea.

  6. #6
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    Few perpetrators have the financial resources to make a "large civil judgment" effective.

    A well-publicized prison sentence, lifelong requirement for weekly public service work, and permanent driver's license revocation just might deter negligence.
    I tend to agree... in the eye of the public, motorists often get off scott free... while there may be some civil judgment that later occurs, it generally does not get the publicity of a criminal charge.

    One somewhat poor example would be the OJ trial... where the criminal proceedings were quite heavily followed, but the civil proceedings were almost "off the record."

    It seems to me that publicizing that perpetrators are penalized and how should be part of the process of criminal deterrence.

  7. #7
    Dogs like me. Ajenkins's Avatar
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    How about that he be treated like a sex offender. The court should order that he's not allowed to live within 1/4 mile of pedestrians or bicyclists, he is no longer to have a cellphone or driver's license, and he must report his place of domicile to the authorities, whose database of such offenders will be publically available so the rest of society can be vigilant if necessary.

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    Unbelievable.
    Civil judgment may be difficult. assets may not be under his name on anything.

  9. #9
    genec genec's Avatar
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    "Regardless or not if he's a good person," Holifield said, "he's a lousy driver."

  10. #10
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    "There were no skid marks to show Schwartz tried to brake, Senior Assistant City Attorney Kevin Kilpatrick said. "He wasn't paying attention.""

    Or he has ABS brakes, like most modern cars do. Are skid marks really still used as a sign that someone tried to brake? Skid marks to me indicate a loss of control of the vehicle.

    "But Holifield said no jail time would bring Nakata back."

    Well duh. I fail to see how the irreversibility of the crime is somehow an argument for a lighter punishment, nor the length of their prayers.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

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    ABS brake will usually still leave marks at the start of hard braking. . . It looks similar to a burnout marks. ABS doesn't kick in till the brakes/wheels lock up, not usually before.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
    That is one tough case. I know the prevailing sentiment around here is that someone like hm should rot in prison, and that might be right. A very large civil judgment against him is the only real compensation for the victim's family, and a long prison sentence cannot deter negligence (except his own).
    I don't think he should rot in prison. He should do community service and be banned from operating a motor vehicle for life.

  13. #13
    tinydr
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    ...edited... no longer relevant
    Last edited by tinydr; 04-10-08 at 09:24 PM.

  14. #14
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    That was deleted by me. Personal information isn't to be posted as we do not wish to be embroiled in it, nor do we want to be exposed to civil liability for any damages incurred if that posting were to be traced back as a trigger for harassment or worse. Please refrain from this in the future.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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  15. #15
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    "Regardless or not if he's a good person," Holifield said, "he's a lousy driver."
    No attack on any religion intended by the following comment - it is a wake-up call for those who have the gall to believe that their faith will excuse their bad driving - while they simultaneously threaten others' safety through this belief.

    I've got news for him and anyone else with a "(insert religious figure's name of choice, or 'Darwin,' for that matter) is my Co-Pilot" license plate - Divine Intervention does not apply to the directional coordinates of your steering wheel, and most certainly never at all times.

    Neither will prayer solve something irreversible after the fact, regardless of your faith. What's done is done.

    -Kurt

    P.S.: Forgive my rant, but after perceiving multiple motorists with this bumper sticker driving with the same capabilities of a drunkard (three of which were not actively holding the steering wheel for extended periods of time, for the pavement permitted some margin for error), I felt obligated to complain about the subject.
    Last edited by cudak888; 04-10-08 at 09:26 PM.

  16. #16
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenPremier View Post
    As if the Jewish faith isn't dying enough as it is, they have to go around accidentally killing each other.
    Maybe you should read the article again. The man the Rabbi hit and killed, Tatsuo Nakata, was Japanese. While it's possible that Mr. Nakata had converted to Judaism, it's not likely and is not implied in the article. Given the random nature of the event, I don't understand your comment.
    Last edited by Artkansas; 04-11-08 at 01:01 PM.
    "He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
    I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

  17. #17
    tinydr
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    I'm guessing GreenPremier thought the previous victim was Jewish?

    If that is the case, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion...

  18. #18
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somebadlemonade View Post
    ABS brake will usually still leave marks at the start of hard braking. . . It looks similar to a burnout marks. ABS doesn't kick in till the brakes/wheels lock up, not usually before.
    Granted. But I still don't think a lack of skid marks is necessarily an indicator that he didn't attempt to brake. I'm not saying that he did or didn't, it just struck me as an odd comment to make.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  19. #19
    Senior Member littlewaywelt's Avatar
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    skid marks only indicate that the car's wheels locked up or the car drifted off axis. With ABS and dynamic electronic stability control systems, skid marks are becoming less frequent. A lack of skid marks doesn't necessarily indicate that person didn't try to stop or avoid the person or car he hit. I don't know what was being driven in this case, but a lack of skid marks is often incorrectly cited here to explain what a driver was doing.
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  20. #20
    tinydr
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    I think somewhere it said he was driving an early 90s Oldsmobile wagon?

  21. #21
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    You are right. A 1991.

    According to the Seattle Weekly, he has quite a driving record.
    "He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
    I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

  22. #22
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    Scary. Good thing he doesn't have a drinking history...........

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewaywelt View Post
    skid marks only indicate that the car's wheels locked up or the car drifted off axis. With ABS and dynamic electronic stability control systems, skid marks are becoming less frequent. A lack of skid marks doesn't necessarily indicate that person didn't try to stop or avoid the person or car he hit. I don't know what was being driven in this case, but a lack of skid marks is often incorrectly cited here to explain what a driver was doing.
    Those things usually are only found on higher-end cars and more recent cars. . . Do you consider a 91 Oldsmobile wagon either of those? And all those things look nice on paper but they TCS/ESS still take driver input into account, so hard braking inputed by pressing hard on the brakes gets picked up by these systems, as use the brakes to the traction-limit of the tires. Real world tests still show skid marks, for most cars.

    But we are getting off topic, talking about car technology in a cycling forum.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewaywelt View Post
    skid marks only indicate that the car's wheels locked up or the car drifted off axis. With ABS and dynamic electronic stability control systems, skid marks are becoming less frequent. A lack of skid marks doesn't necessarily indicate that person didn't try to stop or avoid the person or car he hit. I don't know what was being driven in this case, but a lack of skid marks is often incorrectly cited here to explain what a driver was doing.
    "Not necessarily" is such a common retort.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
    That is one tough case. I know the prevailing sentiment around here is that someone like hm should rot in prison, and that might be right. A very large civil judgment against him is the only real compensation for the victim's family, and a long prison sentence cannot deter negligence (except his own).
    I don't think he should rot in prison... however, he shouldn't be allowed to drive... I mean he hit 2 people one of which died... how many does he have to kill or maim before he is no longer allowed to drive?

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