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  1. #1
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Re : Jupiter Island Vs. Bikes

    I attended this meeting tonite amped up and ready to use all
    of my BF, A&S Kung-Fu skills of arguing, hypothesizing and
    decrying being held down by teh man and bourgeois
    but instead came away embarrassed to be a bicycler.
    The very friendly Police Chief had a very concise presentation
    with handouts. The crux of the meeting was that the roadie
    situation on the island is getting out-of-hand and cited one shop
    in particular. Supplied was video clips of the offending behavior.
    To be brief, the club roadies, who I have always maintained to be our
    worst enemy lived up to my theory. Running stop signs, taking
    up not only the right lane but also the oncoming traffic lane on the
    vids, refusing to yield to lit up emergency vehicle, urinating on
    private property and beating on/cursing out passing motorists
    and property owners were the unreasonable behaviors that were
    trying to be dealt with, reasonably. There was no conspiracy to
    prohibit bikes as I mistakenly assumed. The township went out of
    their way to provide a forum where one was not needed in my
    opinion and only 7 people showed up.
    Part of me now agrees with the residents asking for a ban on the
    clubbers. We are own worst enemy's.

  2. #2
    yes
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    Maybe next time, the roadies will show up with a highlight reel showing all of the bad drivers. I wonder if the police will give access to their videos. If not, there is always that cops show and the videos that they use to scare kids in drivers ed.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Script's Avatar
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    I quit posting 'cause it seemed to be a wasted exercise. Your post here will probably be met by outrage from cycling club riders.

    My experience confirms what the Cops found. As you stated, cyclists can be their own worst enemy.



    I ride way too much to be called anti-cyclist. I could be accused of being anti-idiot.

  4. #4
    Senior Member maddyfish's Avatar
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    I guess the response for the police chief is, why don't you do your job, stop them and write tickets? Instead of trying to ban even those who legally ride.

    Another question for said police chief; do we pay you to be a camera boy, or to enforce law? Get out there and do your job.
    Not too much to say here

  5. #5
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    ^^^Read much ?

    "There was no conspiracy to
    prohibit bikes as I mistakenly assumed."

  6. #6
    Senior Member slagjumper's Avatar
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    So the cops took video of people breaking the law and they did nothing? Why not bust them? What about all the statutes in the MV code that apply to bikes? The cop just busted himself! Just think those rich bike dudes each on the $3K+ bike. All have drivers' licenses and can all pay and would all get points. What they where going to fast to catch in the cruiser? No need to ban bikes, just enforce the laws. Otherwize you could just get a group of cars to race through town, scofflawing the regs, then they'd have to ban cars as well.

    After a rant like that the rate payers would never ban bikes, only make the cops do thier jobs.
    Last edited by slagjumper; 04-11-08 at 09:05 PM.

  7. #7
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    wow....I didnt expect such negativity. The cops are trying to defuse a situation that
    has gotten out-of-control without the usual cop-ish/authoritarian powertrip.
    In thier defense , they said any car drive that breaks the 3' rule will be fined also in
    an effort to be even handed. They said that there are 700-1000 riders a sunday
    in-season and the behaviour is deteriorating to a point that is unnaceptable.
    Anyone who knows me knows Im no fan of the police but they are correct in this
    situation. The Chief o Police said they are hoping the clubs police themselves
    so no further action or hostilites are stirred up. He hand delivered 22 letters to
    Bike Shop owners in the area and only one showed up. Im surprised people are
    angry that the cops are giving people a chance act responsibly before citing
    them or taking other draconian measures. Damned if you do, damned if you dont,
    I guess. Really, is it too much to ask someone not to trespass onto someones
    property and pi$$ in plain sight ?
    In FL, points for bike infractions dont affect your DL.

    Another interesting stat was of 24 recent bike accidents cars were only involved in
    three. 12 were club ride crashes.

    Sorry, as someone who goes out of their way to promote cycling positively amoungst
    the negatives of wrong-way riding crackheads, arrogant roadies and yupps who think
    pulling a kiddie trailer gives them dominion over humanity, I cant defend the cyclists
    who were the subject matter of this meeting.

  8. #8
    tinydr
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    It does sound like the situation has gotten out of hand... with such a poor turnout, is there much hope the clubs will turn it around?

    Pissing in public is an arrestable offense out this way, is it not in Florida or wherever you're talking about?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=£em in Pa=- View Post
    wow....I didnt expect such negativity. The cops are trying to defuse a situation that
    has gotten out-of-control without the usual cop-ish/authoritarian powertrip.
    Maybe the reactions are simply because in your OP you didn't state everything you just did. From the original post all you talk about is how they took video.

    Keep in mind people can only react and respond to what you write. Not what you think. I have been trying to tell my wife for 15 years that I still can't read her mind. Given this new information it is nice to see the cops going out of their way to accomodate everyone. Shame that wasn't added in the OP. The replies likely would have been different.

    -D

  10. #10
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    ^^^ Yes it is. This was a call-in to dispatch, not witnessed by cops.

    We got a sheet detailing every bike related call into JIPD and thats where
    these stats come from along with a detailed PP presentation.

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    follow the law (vb) or face consequences (that need to be enforced).

    when this goes both ways (car/bike), there should be smoother going and both have the law backing their driving behavior.

    what do the police do when someone pees in public, drive the wrong direction, ignore traffic lights, etc?
    are they a one man team, at the coffee shop taking a break (sorry for the generalization) when all this recorded behavior is going on?

    good job going to the town meeting and representing, and informing bf of your findings! i look forward to reading eventual outcomes and planning.

  12. #12
    tinydr
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    Quote Originally Posted by derath View Post
    Maybe the reactions are simply because in your OP you didn't state everything you just did. From the original post all you talk about is how they took video.

    Keep in mind people can only react and respond to what you write.
    unless you're referring to a version of his original post other than as it appears currently, I'd have to disagree...

    Quote Originally Posted by -=£em in Pa=- View Post
    the unreasonable behaviors that were trying to be dealt with, reasonably. There was no conspiracy to prohibit bikes as I mistakenly assumed. The township went out of their way to provide a forum where one was not needed in my opinion
    He specifically states that the police were attempting to handle this diplomatically, by reaching out to the clubs in an attempt to get them to correct the situation on their own.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinydr View Post
    unless you're referring to a version of his original post other than as it appears currently, I'd have to disagree...
    Several posters questioned why the police would simply videotape rather than ticketing. Since the OP did not state that the video was in fact NOT taken by the police I think it is reasonable that some would have that misunderstanding.

    Regardless, it is good to see a locality attempting to work to resolve the issue together. Something becoming far to rare in the US these days IMO.

    -D

  14. #14
    tinydr
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    True... it wasn't clear who shot the video.

    I confess I don't even know what island this refers to... but I'm guessing there's $ involved in this somewhere; do the club cyclists bring dollars to the local economy and they're hoping to resolve this without driving away the business?

  15. #15
    Conservative Hippie
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    So, the way I take this is the club riders are causing mutiple problems, particularly on weekends. The Police Chief is looking for a diplomatic solution. Kudos to him for taking the time to do so. The club riders don't care.

    Sounds to me like the next step is writing tickets. That would be funny; if a whole pace line got stopped and cited for 316.0895 Following too closely.

  16. #16
    Senior Member maddyfish's Avatar
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    Just write a few tickets or arrest a few bikers and the problem will go away.

    Enforcement works just fine. No reason for the other B.S.
    Not too much to say here

  17. #17
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    I guess if the club riders aren't interested in showing up and defending themselves or taking responsibility for their actions, they deserve whatever's coming to them. Pity, really. Looking at the googlemap, it looks like a nice place to ride.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
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    I'm starting to agree that club rides are the problem. I've only done a few, and I was surprised at the lack of concern for traffic laws. It's one thing when one rider looks for traffic at a stop sign and blows through it - it's another when a pack of 100 does. It's easy to argue that a car should wait a few seconds to safely pass a sole rider (or a group of 5, for example). It's almost impossible for a car to pass a group of 100.

  19. #19
    SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07 Walter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinydr
    but I'm guessing there's $ involved in this somewhere; do the club cyclists bring dollars to the local economy and they're hoping to resolve this without driving away the business?
    The local economy of Jupiter Island is not terribly interested in whatever money the riding clubs might bring in; of that you may be sure. Jupiter Island defines exclusivity and wealth in a way only rivaled by Palm Beach. Tiger Woods is building his new home there. It will front both the ocean and the Intercoastal Waterway and have its own desalinization. The residents are very aggressive when it comes to defending their exclusivity. For years now its been a guaranteed ticket to ride a motorcycle there. They have tried to make a public beach basically unusable. Due to the actions of some arrogant and short-sighted roadies when they push for more aggressive actions against cyclists the cyclists, unlike the beach-goers, will have little sympathy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allister
    Pity, really. Looking at the googlemap, it looks like a nice place to ride.
    A beautiful place to ride. Lightly traveled streets that are, as you can imagine, meticulously clean and pot-hole free. In fact cleaner than my floors usually are. Hopefully this gets resolved. It's far enough that I have to bring my bike there for a ride but close enough to be worth it.\


    “Life is not one damned thing after another. Life is one damned thing over and over.”
    Edna St. Vincent Millay

  20. #20
    tinydr
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    ah... right, Jupiter Island... sorry, I totally forgot about the subject line of the thread: probably could've figured it out my own.

    I wonder what their motivation is to attempt being civil about it before they crack down?

  21. #21
    Senior Member maddyfish's Avatar
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    Why not just ticket the riders?
    But it doesn't sound like law enforcement is the concern, it sounds like exclusivity is the concern.
    Not too much to say here

  22. #22
    Senior Member maddyfish's Avatar
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    As far as 100 riders being hard to pass. So what? 100 cars are hard to pass. It's called traffic. As long as the riders are following the law, too bad. That's where enforcement comes in to play.
    Not too much to say here

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