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Old 04-14-08, 06:41 PM   #1
daibutsu
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Assertively aggressive

Knock on wood!!! I am !! All these capricious accidents really have no common denominator except fuc*ked up drivers of cars or target type bike riders. I live in DC which has the second worst traffic congestion compared to LA, except for time at lights and accidents*. (* = what's that? Well. some BS statistic meant to mitigate that number... Sounds like we're No. 1 to me).

I am very aggressive, I try to radiate it; For years I'd get up thinking today 'let's be mellow and just enjoy the ride'. Within two intersections some self centered SUV parasite is cutting me off, whatever...

After about 1/2 mile I'm back in defense mode, gotta be. Then Offense Mode, cut me off, squeeze me out; then off with your right mirror. You're commercial; taxi, truck, bus (for hire) reaping profit from my over-taxed infrastructure, off with the left mirror ( hard to drive auto without a left mirror!) Open your door without looking over shoulder? Wanna give me the Door Prize? Next time you'll think about it after I spring your door AND it slams right back on you.

I'm 53 been riding for 45 yrs. most always on busy roads, seldom wear helmet, never spandex and knocking on wood.

I think if we acted like the selfish a*sholes most these drivers are we'd command a lot more respect.
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Old 04-14-08, 06:46 PM   #2
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Sometumes I think that, if we were well known as mean, nasty, car damaging animals maybe they'd leave us alone.

But then I think they'd just pass a law getting rid of us.
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Old 04-14-08, 06:50 PM   #3
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You couldn't be any further from being right.

you, Sir, sound like an individual frustrated with his life situation. If you weren't riding a bike you would be searching out opportunities to vandalize and deface property just for kicks. Stop being a tool. Lighten up and stop giving us all a bad name.
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Old 04-14-08, 07:30 PM   #4
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Thirstyman,

I begrudgingly admit that you are basically correct in your psychological assessment, capability wise. However, this analysis of yours, falls short; Re: giving us a bad name. The milquetoast passivisity hasn't at all reduced car/bike accidents. Let's try something new.

I'm involved in a few riding clubs; it's amazing the ratio of bike accidents to passive bike riders.
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Old 04-14-08, 07:38 PM   #5
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Stop being a tool. Lighten up and stop giving us all a bad name.
right as you may be, i'd like to meet this guy. and shake his hand. *hides in shame*
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Old 04-14-08, 07:48 PM   #6
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Thirstyman,

I begrudgingly admit that you are basically correct in your psychological assessment, capability wise. However, this analysis of yours, falls short; Re: giving us a bad name. The milquetoast passivisity hasn't at all reduced car/bike accidents. Let's try something new.

I'm involved in a few riding clubs; it's amazing the ratio of bike accidents to passive bike riders.
I wouldn't recommend passivity in the face of deliberately aggressive driving. I would say however that much of what appears as deliberately aggressive is actually just clueless, distracted driving. Cyclists historically have a difficult time discerning the difference. Someone who rode around assuming that all the bad, dangerous driving they see is deliberate would certainly end up with some kind of epic persecution complex.

I recommend riding in a way that is assertively considerate. There is no compelling safety reason to ride like a $!@#.

Robert
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Old 04-14-08, 07:49 PM   #7
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I think being politely and defensively assertive is the safest way to ride in traffic. If you act indecisive and/or cower against the curb, motorists will tend to cut you off. If you fail to claim a narrow lane, some bozo will try to squeeze past you.
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Old 04-14-08, 08:24 PM   #8
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I don't take ***** from drivers, but I don't dish it out either.
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Old 04-15-08, 05:18 AM   #9
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somedays, it's running a gauntlet and only the tough survive. And sometimes it's fun to count coup.

Urban Traffic Jamming - riding congested urban traffic - has a distinct aggressive aspect if it's flowing well. Jackrabbit off the lights, jump in and claim that gap, dice that line, pass that bus, BUNNY HOP, cut the corner, HAMMER DOWN and make the yellow going stale 50 feet ahead....
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Old 04-15-08, 07:42 AM   #10
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I don't take ***** from drivers, but I don't dish it out either.
Spot-on advice for all dealings with others, not just motorists.
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Old 04-15-08, 11:04 AM   #11
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False dichotomy, OP.

There is passive, and there is aggressive, and there is assertive.

Passive is not how you want to be on the road, you'll get yourself killed by someone not following the rules. So you are correct there.

However, Aggressive is just the path to road rage. It won't improve your safety, and it will impair your judgment, potentially escalating a situation or making safety sacrifices for the sake of ego wounds.

Assertive is best. It is a rational mindset, wherein you make calculated decisions to advance your own well-being. You do not let yourself get right-hooked, or cut off because you watch for dangers, and take the most direct route to your own safety.
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Old 04-15-08, 11:10 AM   #12
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I recommend riding in a way that is assertively considerate. There is no compelling safety reason to ride like a $!@#.

Robert
Excellent advice!

Al
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Old 04-15-08, 12:12 PM   #13
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I think if we acted like the selfish a*sholes most these drivers are we'd command a lot more respect.
Well, you're acting like one all right...I'm sure you're commanding respect You're no better than the worst drivers. You certainly sound as angry and frustrated as many of them.

Ride with confidence, own your space and leave it at that. Lashing out is immature and as you're describing it, illegal. Grow up. Oh wait, you're 53. You should be by now.
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Old 04-15-08, 12:12 PM   #14
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"I'm so tough, I knock mirrors off taxis every day, blah blah blah!!"
Shhhaaa!
I have to respectfully question the veracity of this post.

First of all, I'd like to see anybody knock a mirror off a car with their bare hand from a bike.

Second of all, I'd like to really see you do it on a regular basis in downtown DC (or LA, or NYC etc) during rush hour. Or any hour. I'd settle for seeing you put a tiny scratch on somebody's car to see what happens when you REALLY do this. (Answer: You would have been run off the road, run over, pushed off, doored, beaten up or worse long ago. )

We're all frustrated by traffic sometimes, but c'mon man! Bravado much?
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Old 04-15-08, 03:26 PM   #15
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You sponges somehow equate the weight, momentum, and simple presence of a bicycle equal to a car. No, no, no: This has been the lamentation of motorcyclists for practically ever. They can't readily respond. We can!! I do!!!

The a*sholes that run us off the road are the same a*sholes that love their cars. New mirrors do seem to give when pushed forward; my brother also doubts the efficacy of smashing then off without hurting my hands. It works on many cars, I need to find some new way of sending out my message. Which is, you sponges: Contact with cars, being run off the road, people simply honking to warn me ( then they're too close by definition) is detrimental to my riding, commute, and/or enjoyment. If the auto drivers wish me to compete with their bulk and mass, I will share with them the negatives.
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Old 04-15-08, 03:42 PM   #16
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I ride to have fun. Not to be a p!ssed-off cyclist.
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Old 04-15-08, 05:07 PM   #17
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Do you carry this much anger in your everyday life? Unless it was some hugely bad situation I try to forget about whatever the last stupid driver did by the next block otherwise I'm just riding angry and thats not fun. Not only are you making the rest of us look bad but you're shaving years off your life carrying that attitude. Lighten up and enjoy the ride, minor traffic annoyances may seem less worse with a less "I'm gonna get ya back" attitude.
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Old 04-15-08, 05:12 PM   #18
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you seem to love to use the word sponge as an epithet, blockhead.
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Old 04-15-08, 05:42 PM   #19
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"Assertively aggressive" sounds like "alarmingly terrifying".
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Old 04-15-08, 06:56 PM   #20
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......
First of all, I'd like to see anybody knock a mirror off a car with their bare hand from a bike.

........

lolz. It has been said, so let it be done.

Agent C, a typical car mirror is very easy to remove provided that you have enough momentum. Your speed should be at least 15+ mph (From what I've seen, 20 mph makes it a piece of cake!)

Simply extend your arm with your palm open, bend your elbow slightly as to absorb some of the blow.

Just as you reach your desired target, flex your arm back a bit and then jab at full speed with your fore-arm parallel to the road. Mirror is removed violently.

Using this technique bare-handed may result in some embedded glass, depending on where it touches the mirror, or if it breaks as you touch it.

From what I have (seen) the mirror will break after you hit it, when it slams forward into the fender of the car.

So bare-handed or not, you will not likely suffer any injuries.
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Old 04-15-08, 06:59 PM   #21
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nice to know you're so familiar with the technique...?
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Old 04-15-08, 07:00 PM   #22
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nice to know you're so familiar with the technique...?
I'm a keen observer.
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Old 04-15-08, 07:08 PM   #23
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Thirstyman,

I begrudgingly admit that you are basically correct in your psychological assessment, capability wise. However, this analysis of yours, falls short; Re: giving us a bad name. The milquetoast passivisity hasn't at all reduced car/bike accidents. Let's try something new.

I'm involved in a few riding clubs; it's amazing the ratio of bike accidents to passive bike riders.
Funny thing is, I been riding as long as you in the same environments, but have found that riding in a courteous, safe, assertive manner...unless survival dictates otherwise, serves me the best. I ride like I drive...do you drive like an a-hole too...and if so, doesn't that make you part of the problem?
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Old 04-16-08, 08:17 AM   #24
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The problem with assertive is not everyone can do "assertive." I watched a young co-ed riding her bike down a fairly busy road some months ago... she was doing fine until she got to a "pinch point" between traffic and a parked car. (odd place actually as only 3-4 cars could park in this one and only spot on this road).

Her best recourse would have been to take the lane on this 45MPH arterial... instead as she slinked along the cars, she was honked at by some ahole in an Escalade. (it was quite obvious where she was going, and rather then be a nice guy, this jerk chose to honk and rev rather then slow down and make room). I was well behind and watching this unfold... when I caught up to him I gave him an earful. (my commute route goes right by the local college... I see all kinds of cyclists)

She on the other hand just cowered back behind the first parked car... hoping for some miracle I suppose. (she wouldn't go when I went by and waved her on... )

Now the real issue is why should she have to muster up some "cajones" just to ride a bike to school? Do her compadres in little cars have to face the same situations when using the roads? Or is everyone going to have to drive "Compensators" now?

Certainly this situation has happened to others like her... What is the likelihood that she or others like her are going to continue cycling... Or did she just become "one more car."

While I fully agree that one cannot act like a milquetoast on the roads, where is courtesy?
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Old 04-16-08, 11:08 AM   #25
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If the auto drivers wish me to compete with their bulk and mass, I will share with them the negatives.
This is exactly why your approach is flawed.

You experience negatives from motorists, so you put in a lot of effort to give motorists negatives back.

You will live much longer if you focus on avoiding and/or mitigating the negatives from the motorists.



negative + negative = 2 negatives (your approach)

negative + negative mitigation = 0 negatives (best approach)
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