Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-24-08, 10:53 AM   #1
closetbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Airbags outside the car

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tional/Europe/



DOUBLE TAKE: CYCLING SAFETY
Cyclists want a brand new bag
Dutch group advocates external airbags to reduce traffic injuries

SARAH LILLEYMAN

With a report from Reuters

April 24, 2008

Airbags in cars have been proven to decrease traffic deaths for passengers and drivers in recent years, and now cyclists want to benefit from the technology.

The Dutch Cycling Federation said a study showed that 60 lives could be saved each year if airbags were installed on the hoods of cars, where cyclists are typically hit in accidents. External airbags could also cut 1,500 serious injuries a year.

"In the past many measures have been taken to protect those sitting inside cars but hardly anything has been done to protect people outside cars," it said in a statement.

"The federation calls on politicians and the car industry to take measures that could limit the chance of serious injury."

The organization said 216 cyclists died in the Netherlands in 2006, 106 of whom were in vehicle collisions.

In densely populated countries such as the Netherlands, where bicycles outnumber people, cycling and walking are preferred modes of transportation. Sweden's Autoliv Inc., the world's biggest airbag and seatbelt maker, took that into consideration when it developed an external bag that inflates from the bottom of a car's windshield.

"Here in Europe, roughly 15 per cent of all traffic fatalities are pedestrians," Mats Ödman, vice-president of corporate communications for AutoLiv, told Double Take in a telephone interview from his Stockholm office. "What happens is most of them hit their head on the hood ... and it's the hard part that you hit. We started by addressing that problem, using U-shaped airbag technology to lift the end of the hood to make it flex instead."

Car manufacturers have so far shown little interest in the product, Mr. Ödman said. "People are eager to pay for their own safety, but not eager to pay for somebody else's. There have to be laws to make sure these types of products are used."

But there is increasing awareness of the need for pedestrian protection to decrease traffic fatalities globally, Mr. Ödman added. Discussions are taking place in the European Parliament to decide how to improve the safety of pedestrians and cyclists.

"It's a more pronounced problem in the U.K. and Europe, less so in North America because roads are designed in a different way - people don't walk as much," he said. "But if there's a standard that [Europe] adopts, North America should likely follow."
closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 11:12 AM   #2
shatdow
ahhhh
 
shatdow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: berkeley, ca
Bikes: 95 Bianchi Timberwolf; 06 Lemond Croix de Fer
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it's a mostly useless idea with good intentions.
shatdow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 11:21 AM   #3
Brian Ratliff
Senior Member
 
Brian Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near Portland, OR
Bikes: Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
Posts: 10,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
^^^
I'd have to agree. It would be very difficult to enforce a law requiring this and neither the car manufacturers or the customers of such car could give a hoot.

I systemic way of perhaps achieving the same results is to keep high speed motoring confined to corridors (freeways) and decrease the speed of surface streets to a speed safe for pedestrians. Remote speed regulators anyone? Off the freeway, hit a stoplight to make speed go to zero, then regulate it to below 30mph. Eh... kinda pie in the sky, but if we were serious about reducing deaths of pedestrians and cyclists from errant motorists, then speed is the main thing to tackle. Not just the force of the impact, but the reaction time of the motorist and cyclist/pedestrian too.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Brian Ratliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 12:11 PM   #4
closetbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've found when I've been hit by a car, it's not hit that was the problem, it was the landing that hurt. Maybe airbags should be installed on the ground
closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 12:19 PM   #5
Pig_Chaser
Senior Member
 
Pig_Chaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Bikes: '07 Giant OCR3
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dubito... too many variables to consider when designing an external airbag. A Better way to cut bicyclist-vehicle collisions is to govern all vehicles down to 25kph.
Pig_Chaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 12:20 PM   #6
Pig_Chaser
Senior Member
 
Pig_Chaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Bikes: '07 Giant OCR3
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
I've found when I've been hit by a car, it's not hit that was the problem, it was the landing that hurt. Maybe airbags should be installed on the ground
or... a body suit airbag. Now we're talking (crazy).
Pig_Chaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 12:23 PM   #7
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
Posts: 5,587
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Maybe we should wear "fat suits" and motorcycle helmets.
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 01:34 PM   #8
closetbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
Maybe we should wear "fat suits" and motorcycle helmets.
I thought most people already did...

http://www.statcan.ca/english/resear...s/aobesity.htm

Majority overweight or obese...

closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 01:50 PM   #9
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig_Chaser View Post
Dubito... too many variables to consider when designing an external airbag. A Better way to cut bicyclist-vehicle collisions is to govern all vehicles down to 25kph.
Including bicycles?
noisebeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 02:03 PM   #10
brooklyncyclist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Take a wild guess (it's near the water)
Bikes:
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
An external airbag might be more dangerous than the car itself. An airbag inflates in a collision thanks to explosives embedded behind it, thus inflating in a split-second. They are potentially dangerous to the driver/passenger, but less so than hitting one's noggin on the dash or windshield. This is why infants and toddlers are, in many places, required to be in a child seat in the backseat; an airbag could seriously injure their little selves. An external airbag? It would probably toss my body in a way that would break my head or spine. I'll take my chances with metal and try to remember how to roll.
brooklyncyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 02:24 PM   #11
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyncyclist View Post
I'll take my chances with metal .
Perhaps instead the cars should be covered in bicycle helmets.

Al
noisebeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 02:50 PM   #12
Hickeydog
Crushing souls
 
Hickeydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sagamore Hills, Ohio.
Bikes: Trek 1500
Posts: 1,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I remember reading in a Pop-sci a while ago about a motorcycle vest that is an air bag. I don't know the details of how it works, but basically, when the motorcyclist crashes, the vest inflates and the rider is enclosed in this huge ball....something lighter may work for cyclists.....just sayin...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post

What's frightening is how coherent Hickey was in posting that.
Hickeydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 03:19 PM   #13
Sledbikes
Senior Member
 
Sledbikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
^^^
I'd have to agree. It would be very difficult to enforce a law requiring this and neither the car manufacturers or the customers of such car could give a hoot.

I systemic way of perhaps achieving the same results is to keep high speed motoring confined to corridors (freeways) and decrease the speed of surface streets to a speed safe for pedestrians. Remote speed regulators anyone? Off the freeway, hit a stoplight to make speed go to zero, then regulate it to below 30mph. Eh... kinda pie in the sky, but if we were serious about reducing deaths of pedestrians and cyclists from errant motorists, then speed is the main thing to tackle. Not just the force of the impact, but the reaction time of the motorist and cyclist/pedestrian too.
were not in china you want that move there
Sledbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 04:11 PM   #14
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The whole idea sounds more like dent protection for motorists.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 04:15 PM   #15
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
The whole idea sounds more like dent protection for motorists.

-Kurt
Very pricey protection. I also see a great opportunity for 'games' involving setting them off against the wishes of the vehicle owner.

Al
noisebeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 07:33 PM   #16
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I reckon if I hit the hood of a car I'd most likely survive, until the airbag inflated and bounced me onto the ground and possibly under the wheels.

I say make car bonnets out of matresses. Better yet, build cars the same way velomobiles are built - cloth over a light frame. That way I go through it and hit the driver directly. If I'm gonna go down I want to take the idiot responsible for it down with me.
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 07:46 PM   #17
Sledbikes
Senior Member
 
Sledbikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allister View Post
I reckon if I hit the hood of a car I'd most likely survive, until the airbag inflated and bounced me onto the ground and possibly under the wheels.

I say make car bonnets out of matresses. Better yet, build cars the same way velomobiles are built - cloth over a light frame. That way I go through it and hit the driver directly. If I'm gonna go down I want to take the idiot responsible for it down with me.
and if youre the idiot then what?

they're not gonna do it it adds weight,reduces mpg and price. mega luxury vehicles might come with them first but very doubtfull. honda has a system like that now with their 08s its better collision design
Sledbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 07:50 PM   #18
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Bikes:
Posts: 6,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
I've found when I've been hit by a car, it's not hit that was the problem, it was the landing that hurt. Maybe airbags should be installed on the ground
Maybe cyclists should be required to wear airbag suits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9Vlt5tGwY

Airbag pack quite a punch, it could turn a potential brush with a car into getting knocked off ones bike.

Last edited by dobber; 04-25-08 at 01:00 PM.
dobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 07:53 PM   #19
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Bikes:
Posts: 6,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
I systemic way of perhaps achieving the same results is to keep high speed motoring confined to corridors (freeways) and decrease the speed of surface streets to a speed safe for pedestrians. Remote speed regulators anyone? Off the freeway, hit a stoplight to make speed go to zero, then regulate it to below 30mph.
What about rural areas? Sometimes one needs to punch the accelerator to avoid a collision.
dobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-08, 08:08 PM   #20
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledbikes View Post
and if youre the idiot then what?
Inconceivable!
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-08, 05:44 PM   #21
BarracksSi
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
 
BarracksSi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?
Posts: 13,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Carmakers do spend some effort on pedestrian protection (some more than others; Honda might be the only one with a pedestrian-specific crash test facility), with foldaway mirrors, laminated & tempered glass, empty crush space under hoods, hidden radio antennas, etc.

I really don't see how an external airbag can work. Inside the car, airbag design has a real advantage in that the position of the driver & passenger is already known. You know how much space & time you have available to deploy an airbag. However, on the exterior, the only guaranteed location of a pedestrian collision is "any forward-facing surface". Plus, for an airbag system to know about a pedestrian collision means that it's already underway -- it could be like triggering a driver airbag by hitting the steering wheel with your head.
BarracksSi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-08, 03:59 PM   #22
atbman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds UK
Bikes:
Posts: 1,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickeydog View Post
I remember reading in a Pop-sci a while ago about a motorcycle vest that is an air bag. I don't know the details of how it works, but basically, when the motorcyclist crashes, the vest inflates and the rider is enclosed in this huge ball....something lighter may work for cyclists.....just sayin...
And if the inflation medium was helium you could rise above the vehicle hitting you. Of course, the other characteristic of airbags of instantly deflating immediately after the impact would have to be looked at.

Cue high-pitched cries for help as you drift off into the sky
atbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-08, 05:08 PM   #23
photoassign
velotaffer
 
photoassign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: vintage cellar
Bikes:
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
@ atbman: huh? http://www.airprotekgear.com/douga/image/e-1.wmv
photoassign is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:09 AM.