Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-06-08, 10:34 AM   #1
murphstahoe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
murphstahoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Bikes: Seven Axiom, Gary Fisher Sugar, Lemond Buenos Aires, Ritchey Breakaway
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hypocrite? Or not?

A few weeks back there was a dip in oil prices to 106 or so, and based on my experiences I concluded that the price of oil would continue to rise. Cycling the roads of the Bay Area I see continued aggression towards cyclists who in my view should be looked upon as selfless individuals helping the greater local good by reducing their fossil fuel footprint. Discussing topics related to cars with people in the most progressive area in the US has shown that the excuses to limit behavioral changes are enormous. Even at home, I get into tiffs with my wife over her car usage, I will scold her for driving the dog to the park (10 blocks away) and she will tell me "I have to go to the store and Walgreens and..." (at least the peer pressure has her combining trips very aggressively, but I await the day she feels guilty for driving because of it's externalities, not because it ticks me off). Anyway, I decided oil was going up.

So I backed up the truck and loaded up on Oil futures. This has been a "good idea" so far. But I'm making money on a product I inherently dislike. However, I am not investing in companies that produce it - I am investing in the product itself. As such I am in theory taking oil off the market and making it more expensive for the people I wish would not be using it. As a counter, by adding "demand" for oil I am making it more lucrative to drill for more of it.

I'm going with "I made money by raising the price of oil which raises the price of gas, which makes my commute safer".

Hey - it's not like I'm investing in Philip Morris... (though I am sure I own a bit of that in some mutual fund...)
murphstahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 11:17 AM   #2
Pat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Bikes: litespeed, cannondale
Posts: 2,795
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, no one actually produces petroleum. It is already there. They just extract it from the ground. So why is it such a bad thing to make money on petroleum? If you are astute enough to make money on a commodity, why is that so bad? It isn't like you invented it or the demand for it.
Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 11:24 AM   #3
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 24,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphstahoe View Post
Even at home, I get into tiffs with my wife over her car usage, I will scold her for driving the dog to the park (10 blocks away) and she will tell me "I have to go to the store and Walgreens and..." (at least the peer pressure has her combining trips very aggressively, but I await the day she feels guilty for driving because of it's externalities, not because it ticks me off). Anyway, I decided oil was going up.

So I backed up the truck and loaded up on Oil futures...
I suggest you keep that money in a seperate account that your wife can't get when she divorces you over your holier than her (and everybody else) attitude.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 12:29 PM   #4
murphstahoe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
murphstahoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Bikes: Seven Axiom, Gary Fisher Sugar, Lemond Buenos Aires, Ritchey Breakaway
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I suggest you keep that money in a seperate account that your wife can't get when she divorces you over your holier than her (and everybody else) attitude.
Amusing. If your spouse started going on a pet killing spree and you said "Don't kill dogs honey" are you holier than thou? Where's the line? You and I draw it at different places. Personally I get offended at people who are holier than me about my hobby of farting in elevators.
murphstahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 03:27 PM   #5
Catgrrl70
It's faster than the bus
 
Catgrrl70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vashon Island
Bikes: Specialized Tri-Cross, Soma Smoothie ES, Gary Fisher retro hard tail
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"Scolding" does not go over well in my house. How's it really working for you?
Encouragement and leadership by example would go much further. Plus, what does she get from you if she does walk - some kind of "reward" would be good (i.e. how about you ride your bike to Walgreen's or the grocery store to pick up what she needs while she walks the dog).
Catgrrl70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 04:23 PM   #6
murphstahoe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
murphstahoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Bikes: Seven Axiom, Gary Fisher Sugar, Lemond Buenos Aires, Ritchey Breakaway
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My theory would be that walking the dog is a reward in itself. Certainly the dog appreciates it more than a ride in the car, which is why the dog wakes ME up in the morning, not her - because the dog knows I walk her out the front door without exception. This argument bears little fruit - in fact there is a counterincentive to walking the dog - the more she walks the dog the more likely it is the dog will start waking her up.

I volunteered this - I won't read Bike Forums at night if you walk the dog instead of driving That's a hell of a carrot... you have to admit.

If our relationship were as bad as you think it might be when I use the word "tiff" she wouldn't be honest about letting me go do my blogging...
murphstahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 04:31 PM   #7
ilmooz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphstahoe View Post
Personally I get offended at people who are holier than me about my hobby of farting in elevators.
This isn't the type of thing you discuss with your progressive neighbors, is it? Ironically, your gaseous emissions are related to your own fossil fuel footprint.
ilmooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 04:48 PM   #8
Lebowski
bikes are sexy
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sheboygan area, WI
Bikes: [2008 specialized allez tripple], [2006 Specialized hardrock sport], [1998 Robinson Rebel], [1980's vintage schwinn ministing], [2008 specialized epic comp] - [2009 origin8 scout 29er], [2005 KHS DJ200]
Posts: 599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you wouldnt ask this question if you didnt subconciously consider your self a hypocrite.

if you think you might be a hypocrite you probably are.
Lebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 05:43 PM   #9
crhilton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bikes: '07 Trek 1500, '08 Surly Cross Check, '09 Masi Speciale Sprint custom build
Posts: 4,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"Profit from thine enemy?"
crhilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 05:48 PM   #10
maddyfish
Senior Member
 
maddyfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ky. and FL.
Bikes: KHS steel SS
Posts: 3,944
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I rarely drive, but have made a fortune off oil in the last 7 years. No problem with that.
maddyfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 05:50 PM   #11
crhilton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bikes: '07 Trek 1500, '08 Surly Cross Check, '09 Masi Speciale Sprint custom build
Posts: 4,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphstahoe View Post
Amusing. If your spouse started going on a pet killing spree and you said "Don't kill dogs honey" are you holier than thou? Where's the line? You and I draw it at different places. Personally I get offended at people who are holier than me about my hobby of farting in elevators.
The line is whether or not you agree. If you agree that it's wrong to kill puppies than it's not "holier than thou." If you think killing puppies is your acceptable than it's "holier than thou."

If you're looking for an objective line it probably has to do with the modal opinion. Whatever is the most common opinion is the one which isn't a "holier than thou" opinion.

The reality is he's right to bug his wife about it: It's important to him, whether he's right, wrong or "holy." If his wife thought it were wrong to eat meat, she should try and convince him. If he thought sex was wrong, well then it's time for a divorce.

Whoever came up with this crap where we don't discuss our beliefs and try to convince each other should be shot. Discussion is progress.

However, he should have tact and respect her viewpoint. Maybe if he walked with her and the dog to the park it would help? Or if he volunteered to do one of her errands.
crhilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-08, 05:57 PM   #12
stevo9er
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not. There is a market for oil, you didn't create it and you aren't contributing to it be speculating on its worth. Despite your investment the demand will still be there.
stevo9er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-08, 11:13 AM   #13
murphstahoe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
murphstahoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Bikes: Seven Axiom, Gary Fisher Sugar, Lemond Buenos Aires, Ritchey Breakaway
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by crhilton View Post

However, he should have tact and respect her viewpoint. Maybe if he walked with her and the dog to the park it would help? Or if he volunteered to do one of her errands.
Honestly, it's not a viewpoint of hers, she's just being lazy, and she agrees. She doesn't carry a lot of guilt over it, but she's not saying "It's better to drive the dog to the park than to walk the dog". Perhaps the viewpoint is whether or not to carry the guilt. I'm Catholic - we have the market on guilt cornered. She's a heathen, I mean Lutheran (before you get started on that one, neither of us has been to church outside of family gatherings for years - a viewpoint not shared with our parents, etc...)

Ob: cycling - off to the grocery store to pick up some groceries for dinner so my wife can walk the dog
murphstahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-08, 11:56 AM   #14
Catgrrl70
It's faster than the bus
 
Catgrrl70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vashon Island
Bikes: Specialized Tri-Cross, Soma Smoothie ES, Gary Fisher retro hard tail
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, actually I understand his viewpoint incredibly well. I am the bicyclist and my husband is the driver. I've had the same argument(s) with him. He is lazy sometimes. But arguments and scolding simply got me no where. What has been working? Me leading by example all.the.time. He sees that it really is fast to walk to the store/library/pub. Or bike to the neighborhood market. If he walks, then I try to help him out a little at home. He goes walking to get dinner, I'll do all the dishes for the day. It also helps that gas is expensive and walking is free.
Catgrrl70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-08, 01:51 PM   #15
murphstahoe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
murphstahoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Bikes: Seven Axiom, Gary Fisher Sugar, Lemond Buenos Aires, Ritchey Breakaway
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hypocrite or not, Oil cracks $123 a barrel today. Think I'll spring for the *super* Burrito at lunch today!
murphstahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-08, 10:38 PM   #16
ATAC49er
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: clipped in
Bikes: Pacific hardtail (frame only right now); Weyless SP (frame/fork right now); Jamis Dakar XLT 1.0 custom build-up (fully functional)
Posts: 447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
murph...look into the crystal and release guilt.... (sorry, i was channeling 'American Flyers')

the demand for the slick stuff will not change one quark by your speculating -- get what you can, it's all a fraud on humanity anyway....(oops, my hood slipped and showed my paranoid cynicism)
ATAC49er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-08, 05:12 AM   #17
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I worked at a refinery as a piping designer for 6 months or so last year. Never felt a single pang of guilt, and it wasn't the reason I left. The nice thing about working there was that it was only a ten minute bike ride from home, and I only ever got positive responses about riding from my coworkers.

It was kind of enlightening, really, seeing the industry from the inside like that. They actually do take environmental concerns fairly seriously. Wish I could say the same for their customers.
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-08, 11:14 AM   #18
StrangeWill
Senior Member
 
StrangeWill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fallbrook, CA.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by crhilton View Post
Whoever came up with this crap where we don't discuss our beliefs and try to convince each other should be shot. Discussion is progress.
As much as I approve of communication in a relationship, and think lots of people lack it, I think the #1 thing that is going to set people off is the word "scolding", I'm not their mother, I'm their partner, I discuss things.
StrangeWill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-08, 04:02 PM   #19
chucko58
Getting older and slower
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA
Bikes: Beat-up commuter, Chumba XCL for the dirt
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphstahoe View Post
Cycling the roads of the Bay Area I see continued aggression towards cyclists who in my view should be looked upon as selfless individuals helping the greater local good by reducing their fossil fuel footprint.
I'm no f'n hero because I choose to bike commute, I'm just traffic. I'd be happy if the other traffic would consider me as such.
chucko58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-08, 08:01 PM   #20
Rober
Senior Member
 
Rober's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Bikes: 1986 Univega Grand Touring; 1983 Puch A/D Pacifica; 2006 LeMond Sarthe
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphstahoe View Post
A few weeks back there was a dip in oil prices to 106 or so, and based on my experiences I concluded that the price of oil would continue to rise. Cycling the roads of the Bay Area I see continued aggression towards cyclists who in my view should be looked upon as selfless individuals helping the greater local good by reducing their fossil fuel footprint. Discussing topics related to cars with people in the most progressive area in the US has shown that the excuses to limit behavioral changes are enormous. Even at home, I get into tiffs with my wife over her car usage, I will scold her for driving the dog to the park (10 blocks away) and she will tell me "I have to go to the store and Walgreens and..." (at least the peer pressure has her combining trips very aggressively, but I await the day she feels guilty for driving because of it's externalities, not because it ticks me off). Anyway, I decided oil was going up.

So I backed up the truck and loaded up on Oil futures. This has been a "good idea" so far. But I'm making money on a product I inherently dislike. However, I am not investing in companies that produce it - I am investing in the product itself. As such I am in theory taking oil off the market and making it more expensive for the people I wish would not be using it. As a counter, by adding "demand" for oil I am making it more lucrative to drill for more of it.

I'm going with "I made money by raising the price of oil which raises the price of gas, which makes my commute safer".

Hey - it's not like I'm investing in Philip Morris... (though I am sure I own a bit of that in some mutual fund...)
Being married to you sounds like quite a workout.
Rober is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:53 PM.