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  1. #1
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    Winessed wrong-way cyclist get hit

    This morning I witnessed an accident between a wrong-way cyclist and a vehicle turning right out of a parking lot. I reached the scene just as the driver was telling the bike rider that she would pay for damages. When I said that she was not at fault the bike rider began to dispute with me. At that point I'm afraid that I lost my temper and began to lecture him, saying that a bike is a vehicle, that he needed to follow the rules of the road, that he was lucky that he wasn't dead, etc....I told the driver to call the police so that there would be some record of the incident and at that point the bike rider decided to leave the scene on foot, abandoning his damaged bike. An officer arrived but since there was no damage to the car and no serious injuries he just took our contact information. Before I left I told the officer that I would appreciate if he and his fellow officers would watch for wrong-way cyclists and stop any that they see.

  2. #2
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    I assume they were on the road, not the sidewalk, correct?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Why is the OP in the middle of this, arguing with people? The correct response from a bystander to an accident is to call 911 immediately and to write his name and phone number on a slip of paper to hand to each of the participants and the police officer and indicate to them that you are a witness.

    Let the police sort out who was at fault using your and others' witness testimony and the apparent facts on the ground.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  4. #4
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Let the police sort out who was at fault using your and others' witness testimony and the apparent facts on the ground.
    Yep. Tell the facts if asked, but don't speculate on the law and the implications of the law.

    Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    I assume they were on the road, not the sidewalk, correct?
    Although there was a sidewalk they were in the bike lane. For those who know the Boise area this took place on Emerald between Maple Grove and Five Mile.

  6. #6
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Why is the OP in the middle of this, arguing with people? The correct response from a bystander to an accident is to call 911 immediately and to write his name and phone number on a slip of paper to hand to each of the participants and the police officer and indicate to them that you are a witness.

    Let the police sort out who was at fault using your and others' witness testimony and the apparent facts on the ground.
    The problem with that issue is that police often do not know the laws pertaining to cyclists... as illustrated on BF by the many times cyclists have been stopped and questioned for doing the right thing.

    As far as the officer was concerned, he may have assumed the driver was at fault.

    Police are only human. I was once nearly issued a ticket for an auto accident that was the fault of the motorist behind me... (multiple car collision) the cop had assumed the wrong scenario, even after questioning several others. The whole "answer only the questions I give you" situation may not build the proper case. (Defense attorneys know this well)

    Perhaps the OP should not have been involved... but certainly as a witness, some things did need to be clarified for the police.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Why is the OP in the middle of this, arguing with people? The correct response from a bystander to an accident is to call 911 immediately and to write his name and phone number on a slip of paper to hand to each of the participants and the police officer and indicate to them that you are a witness.

    Let the police sort out who was at fault using your and others' witness testimony and the apparent facts on the ground.
    In retrospect this probably would have been a better course of action. When I arrived it appeared that the driver was about to take the bike and rider to a place to get the bike repaired so I spoke up. I didn't intend to get into an arguement but it happened.

  8. #8
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob T View Post
    I told the driver to call the police.......and at that point the bike rider decided to leave the scene on foot, abandoning his damaged bike.
    Stolen bike perhaps? Wrong way,leaves it behind,doesn't want to talk to police. Did the cops take the bike away? Might want to post a description of it on your local CL.

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    The problem with that issue is that police often do not know the laws pertaining to cyclists... as illustrated on BF by the many times cyclists have been stopped and questioned for doing the right thing.

    As far as the officer was concerned, he may have assumed the driver was at fault.

    Police are only human. I was once nearly issued a ticket for an auto accident that was the fault of the motorist behind me... (multiple car collision) the cop had assumed the wrong scenario, even after questioning several others. The whole "answer only the questions I give you" situation may not build the proper case. (Defense attorneys know this well)

    Perhaps the OP should not have been involved... but certainly as a witness, some things did need to be clarified for the police.
    This is what the little book the officer is carrying and the court system is for. You don't get into a slap fight with a participant of a vehicle crash, at the crash scene where emotions are high. The OP might have interpreted the situation wrong. There might have been extenuating circumstances. The crash participant was, perhaps, intimidated by this fellow off the street into running off, perhaps with injuries, and leaving his bike behind.

    I have been a participant in a car/bike collision (me on the bike). I couldn't even think straight (just adrenalin, not head injury, fortunately) enough to get a witness name and number. I didn't know enough to ask for a full set of driver info (got just name and cell number; useless if the other participant refuses to cooperate - you cannot even sue in small claims court because there isn't enough info to serve the law suite). I really, really wish that someone had just called 911 as I was getting myself off the ground, and had a police officer run both me and the other participant through the correct procedure. As it was, no police came because none was summoned; there was no police report, I had no info from witnesses, and I didn't have enough to get $200 out of the driver (who was at fault - pulled out of a parallel parking spot into my path; I was positioned in the middle of the far left lane of a one way street ready to make a left turn).
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Stolen bike perhaps? Wrong way,leaves it behind,doesn't want to talk to police. Did the cops take the bike away? Might want to post a description of it on your local CL.
    Shock from just being hit by a car? Intimidated by this person in his face? The OP made it sound like the police were being summoned, not to sort things out or check the participants for injury and property damage, but to "make it official" that the cyclist in the wrong and owed the driver damages and the cyclist would get nothing - a confrontational summoning. This was after it was apparent that the participants were resolving this civily and the OP stepped into the middle of it and made hay.

    Have you ever been hit by a car before? The experience doesn't exactly leave you thinking rationally about anything. Your order of priorities doesn't extend more than 2 minutes into the future. You aren't thinking about insurance, lawsuits, fault. All you want is to move to safety; make things stop hurting. It is an animal response. Go in the corner, hide, get away from other people. You want it all to go away. You aren't even seeking help. Help has to be forced upon the person.

    I know this from experience.

    And the OP goes and picks a fight. No wonder the cyclist ran away. The OP made it into a hostile environment that the injured cyclist was in no condition to handle.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member littlewaywelt's Avatar
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    The rider knew he was in the wrong, thought initially he was going to get a free ride out of it and then just like a coward hit and run driver, when he thought he might get in trouble he fled the scene.

    OP, good job.
    One Less Car
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewaywelt View Post
    The rider knew he was in the wrong, thought initially he was going to get a free ride out of it and then just like a coward hit and run driver, when he thought he might get in trouble he fled the scene.

    OP, good job.
    Have you ever been hit by a car?

    Or do you know the guy and he told you all this?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob T View Post
    This morning I witnessed an accident between a wrong-way cyclist and a vehicle turning right out of a parking lot. I reached the scene just as the driver was telling the bike rider that she would pay for damages. When I said that she was not at fault the bike rider began to dispute with me. At that point I'm afraid that I lost my temper and began to lecture him, saying that a bike is a vehicle, that he needed to follow the rules of the road, that he was lucky that he wasn't dead, etc....I told the driver to call the police so that there would be some record of the incident and at that point the bike rider decided to leave the scene on foot, abandoning his damaged bike. An officer arrived but since there was no damage to the car and no serious injuries he just took our contact information. Before I left I told the officer that I would appreciate if he and his fellow officers would watch for wrong-way cyclists and stop any that they see.



  14. #14
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    ^^^
    1+
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Stolen bike perhaps? Wrong way,leaves it behind,doesn't want to talk to police. Did the cops take the bike away? Might want to post a description of it on your local CL.
    The bike rider said that he was late to work, pointed out his office, and started walking toward it. The police officer left the bike where it was.

  16. #16
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    This is what the little book the officer is carrying and the court system is for. You don't get into a slap fight with a participant of a vehicle crash, at the crash scene where emotions are high. The OP might have interpreted the situation wrong. There might have been extenuating circumstances. The crash participant was, perhaps, intimidated by this fellow off the street into running off, perhaps with injuries, and leaving his bike behind.

    I have been a participant in a car/bike collision (me on the bike). I couldn't even think straight (just adrenalin, not head injury, fortunately) enough to get a witness name and number. I didn't know enough to ask for a full set of driver info (got just name and cell number; useless if the other participant refuses to cooperate - you cannot even sue in small claims court because there isn't enough info to serve the law suite). I really, really wish that someone had just called 911 as I was getting myself off the ground, and had a police officer run both me and the other participant through the correct procedure. As it was, no police came because none was summoned; there was no police report, I had no info from witnesses, and I didn't have enough to get $200 out of the driver (who was at fault - pulled out of a parallel parking spot into my path; I was positioned in the middle of the far left lane of a one way street ready to make a left turn).
    I tend to agree with you here and in your other post right after... post 10... and yeah, I have been in car bike collisions.

    Really the OP was in the wrong as far as caring for a potentially injured person... but the reality is that it was the cyclist's fault, and the driver didn't know that, and the cop arriving on the scene may not check their little book, and may make all sorts of wrong assumptions. (have seen it happen)

    I commend the OP for correcting the situation, but condemn the OP for poor timing on imparting a lesson.

  17. #17
    Senior Member StrangeWill's Avatar
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    As much as people like to ***** for your interference, I'm glad to see this idiot didn't get new parts out of being an idiot. Though you should have probably just told the driver, left your contact info, and suggest they get a police report. Guy was obviously an idiot to begin with and if face-on-pavement didn't teach him, a scolding wont either.

  18. #18
    touring roadie islandboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob T View Post
    In retrospect this probably would have been a better course of action. When I arrived it appeared that the driver was about to take the bike and rider to a place to get the bike repaired so I spoke up. I didn't intend to get into an arguement but it happened.

    So those invlolved had come to a mutual agreement on what to do and your input collapsed their agreement?

  19. #19
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeWill View Post
    As much as people like to ***** for your interference, I'm glad to see this idiot didn't get new parts out of being an idiot. Though you should have probably just told the driver, left your contact info, and suggest they get a police report. Guy was obviously an idiot to begin with and if face-on-pavement didn't teach him, a scolding wont either.
    There is nothing to be "glad" about here. Getting hit by a car is enough of a lesson. I'll bet the driver participant thought so too, hence the offer.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member littlewaywelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Have you ever been hit by a car?

    Or do you know the guy and he told you all this?
    As a matter of fact I was dragged under one.

    I'm making an educated guess based on the "facts" as presented.
    One Less Car
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  21. #21
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    this is why i rarely venture into this forum any more.

    we have a second hand description of an accident with precious few details. already there are wide reaching assumptions about who deserves what, people needing to be taught a lesson, and some thinly veiled happiness that this 'idiot' got what he deserved.

    nothing i've read in here would be enough for me to form such a strong opinion over.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandboy View Post
    So those invlolved had come to a mutual agreement on what to do and your input collapsed their agreement?
    I arrived at the scene about 30 seconds after the incident so I'm not sure how much would have been discussed prior to my arrival.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    I commend the OP for correcting the situation, but condemn the OP for poor timing on imparting a lesson.
    Thanks for all the feedback. If there is a next time hopefully I'll handle the situation better. I think that I also got caught up in the emotions of the event.

    By the way the officer seemed to know the rules. He said that it would have been legal for the cyclist to ride that way on the sidewalk but not in the bike lane. While we were still at the scene another wrong-way cyclist passed and the officer told her to get on the sidewalk.

    (Does OP mean "other person" or something else?)

  24. #24
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    OP = original poster, as in, the person/post which started the thread. Internet slang. Sorry.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  25. #25
    1973 Sekine dogbreathpnw's Avatar
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    Stupid but not illegal...

    Bob, unfortunately it is legal in many places to ride the wrong way or on a sidewalk.

    It shouldn't be, but there you are.

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