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Old 05-24-08, 12:39 PM   #1
CritEastwood
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Contacted by The Police

A little blahg post about being profiled by the police: Contacted
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Old 05-24-08, 01:58 PM   #2
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No formal complaint = don't care about your blogging.

In other words:
You didn't care enough to actually do anything but run home and roll your face on the keyboard for a few paragraphs.
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Old 05-24-08, 05:46 PM   #3
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That is funny how the cop asked him to provide proof of who he actually was. Their in car system allow them to look up almost anything about you. In Montgomery County and were I work at the City all our in car systems allow officers to look up users information within seconds.

The dude should of checked if the cop had a in car camera system. If so call the station, file a compliant, they will pull the video with the audio and their ya go. Besides that not much you can do and its just one of things that is going to happen.
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Old 05-24-08, 08:48 PM   #4
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All I can say is, when you call me a liar, the kid gloves come off.

He WOULD have been reported, and a complaint WOULD have been filed.
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Old 05-24-08, 10:40 PM   #5
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All I can say is, when you call me a liar, the kid gloves come off.

He WOULD have been reported, and a complaint WOULD have been filed.
I thought the same thing, my first response would be "And your badge number is?".
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Old 05-25-08, 11:41 AM   #6
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What the person should have done is asked for a supervisor after being called a lier. In all states you have the right to ask for one and they must have one respond to the seen. It might take a bit for him to get their but its worth it in this case. Thats why the guy was so nice towards the end because he had seen he was a prick and did not want to get in any trouble for that.

Its really what ever, since their was no report made theirs no reason to complain about it. Unless you did something about it theirs no reason to be pissed.
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Old 05-26-08, 12:00 AM   #7
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I don't know what State this occurred in, but in Ga., and in Tn., you are required by law to have ID on your person at all times, either a Drivers License, or State-Issued ID, unless you are under 16 years old. It is a $35.00 fine for not having it, and they can (and will) jail you for up to 24 hours, until your true identity can be determined through fingerprints, or other methods. A Peace Officer has the right demand ID at any time, for any reason. And in the 2 states I live, and work in, a Peace Officer is under no requirement to be civil, polite, or accommodating. Whether their conduct constitutes abuse is determined by a judge, but in most cases, the Peace Officer will prevail.

Down south, the best thing you can do when a Peace Officer questions you is to keep your hands in sight, nod and say "Yes, Sir", or "No, Sir" (or Ma'am, if appropriate), and do whatever they tell you to do. Mouthing-off is a No-Win situation.

After the incident, if you wish to contact an attorney to complain (and this is the only type of complaint that will be heard...through an attorney), then that is your right. Except in extreme cases, it will probably not go anywhere, but you can try.

If you complain to elected officials, or the media, you will most likely be targeted, and all Law Enforcement Officers will make life pure Hell for you every time you leave your house. It's best just to play the game.
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Old 05-26-08, 12:16 AM   #8
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If you complain to elected officials, or the media, you will most likely be targeted, and all Law Enforcement Officers will make life pure Hell for you every time you leave your house. It's best just to play the game.
Can somebody explain what the difference is between these cops and, say, the mob?

Ironic that these are the same goons who claim they don't have time to investigate crimes...

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Old 05-26-08, 12:49 AM   #9
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I don't know what State this occurred in, but in Ga., and in Tn., you are required by law to have ID on your person at all times, either a Drivers License, or State-Issued ID, unless you are under 16 years old. It is a $35.00 fine for not having it, and they can (and will) jail you for up to 24 hours, until your true identity can be determined through fingerprints, or other methods. A Peace Officer has the right demand ID at any time, for any reason.
Can you link to this law?

A Peace Officer, under the 4th amendment, only has a right to detain a person and demand ID under set circumstances.
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Old 05-26-08, 02:01 AM   #10
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If you complain to elected officials, or the media, you will most likely be targeted, and all Law Enforcement Officers will make life pure Hell for you every time you leave your house. It's best just to play the game.
so that is America, land of the free.... wow, thanks for the heads up!
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Old 05-26-08, 02:49 AM   #11
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I don't know what State this occurred in, but in Ga., and in Tn., you are required by law to have ID on your person at all times, either a Drivers License, or State-Issued ID, unless you are under 16 years old. It is a $35.00 fine for not having it, and they can (and will) jail you for up to 24 hours, until your true identity can be determined through fingerprints, or other methods. A Peace Officer has the right demand ID at any time, for any reason. And in the 2 states I live, and work in, a Peace Officer is under no requirement to be civil, polite, or accommodating. Whether their conduct constitutes abuse is determined by a judge, but in most cases, the Peace Officer will prevail.

Down south, the best thing you can do when a Peace Officer questions you is to keep your hands in sight, nod and say "Yes, Sir", or "No, Sir" (or Ma'am, if appropriate), and do whatever they tell you to do. Mouthing-off is a No-Win situation.

After the incident, if you wish to contact an attorney to complain (and this is the only type of complaint that will be heard...through an attorney), then that is your right. Except in extreme cases, it will probably not go anywhere, but you can try.

If you complain to elected officials, or the media, you will most likely be targeted, and all Law Enforcement Officers will make life pure Hell for you every time you leave your house. It's best just to play the game.
I thought we did away with that south a while back. I'd love to see the statutes covering these provisions. No doubt if someone took them on, incident or not, they would be struck down. As a citizen of the US, I am entitled to move about absent any ID - and I would assert that my entitlement covers each of our states. The provisions you describe sound unconstitutional . . . and, no matter what state or what provision, anyone in this day and time, LE or not, who thinks they can suppress my constitutional right to lodge a complaint without absent the requirement to hire or be assisted by professional counsel is in for a surprise if they tangle with me.

It is as a result of the grace extended by the OP that this offending LEO did not find himself in a very embarrassing, if not career compromising heap of trouble, and any officer who detains you after an illegal stop (which this was) where there was no probable cause (which there wasn't) has broken the law he/she is sworn to uphold.

I am certain there are many people out there who would like to see such Draconian laws on the books - where you could be thrown in jail for a few days just because you didn't have an ID, but, fortunately, the pendulum has not swung far enough in error towards 'national security' for that to happen, yet. We may reach that point, but I have faith that reasonable citizens will assert themselves to push that pendulum back towards a more reasonable approach that continues to respect the wishes of the founding fathers.

In reality, LE has no right to interfere with you at all unless you have committed some sort of infraction or they have probable cause to believe that you may have perpetrated some sort of crime. Then, and only then, can they detain you until they ascertain that you are who you say you are and that there are no outstanding warrants for your arrest. The only exceptions of which I am aware would be situations in which they have set up monitoring points where they might momentarily stop every citizen or some percentage of citizens based upon some pre-set, non-discriminatory interval. Otherwise (as in this case) the stop is not legal and could likely be challenged in a court of law along with any evidence or charges resulting from the stop.

This is as it should be.

My respect goes out toward the OP for restraint in dealing with the officer. As nice as it might make the gut feel to get even with this overreacting officer, he probably will mature to become an asset to his force and a valuable protector of persons not unlike the OP for whom, on this night, he made some trouble.

Caruso
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Old 05-26-08, 04:27 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Schwinnhund View Post
I don't know what State this occurred in, but in Ga., and in Tn., you are required by law to have ID on your person at all times, either a Drivers License, or State-Issued ID, unless you are under 16 years old. It is a $35.00 fine for not having it, and they can (and will) jail you for up to 24 hours, until your true identity can be determined through fingerprints, or other methods. A Peace Officer has the right demand ID at any time, for any reason. And in the 2 states I live, and work in, a Peace Officer is under no requirement to be civil, polite, or accommodating. Whether their conduct constitutes abuse is determined by a judge, but in most cases, the Peace Officer will prevail.

Down south, the best thing you can do when a Peace Officer questions you is to keep your hands in sight, nod and say "Yes, Sir", or "No, Sir" (or Ma'am, if appropriate), and do whatever they tell you to do. Mouthing-off is a No-Win situation.

After the incident, if you wish to contact an attorney to complain (and this is the only type of complaint that will be heard...through an attorney), then that is your right. Except in extreme cases, it will probably not go anywhere, but you can try.

If you complain to elected officials, or the media, you will most likely be targeted, and all Law Enforcement Officers will make life pure Hell for you every time you leave your house. It's best just to play the game.
?

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Old 05-26-08, 04:49 AM   #13
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so that is America, land of the free.... wow, thanks for the heads up!
Do you go in Heads Up mode after reading every fabricated factoid/over-the-top sermon/screed? Or only if the ranting confirms your already established notions about the Real Truth? eh?

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Old 05-26-08, 05:54 AM   #14
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Do you go in Heads Up mode after reading every fabricated factoid/over-the-top sermon/screed? Or only if the ranting confirms your already established notions about the Real Truth? eh?
To be perfectly frank I couldn't give a stuff what your country is like to live in since I don't live there and don't intend to. It only starts affecting us (i.e. the rest of the world) when you start invading other countries for their resources under the guise of 'the war on terror' so to be honest, no I don't truly go into heads up mode.... actions speak louder than words and based on you country's actions in the ME I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a bit of a police state not unlike that described in that factoid, but like I said, I really couldn't give a stuff either way.

Does that answer your question?
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Old 05-26-08, 06:00 AM   #15
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To be perfectly frank I couldn't give a stuff what your country is like to live in since I don't live there and don't intend to. It only starts affecting us (i.e. the rest of the world) when you start invading other countries for their resources under the guise of 'the war on terror' so to be honest, no I don't truly go into heads up mode.... actions speak louder than words and based on you country's actions in the ME I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a bit of a police state not unlike that described in that factoid, but like I said, I really couldn't give a stuff either way.

Does that answer your question?
Perfectly. "I wouldn't be surprised at all" - AKA - I'll believe any BS posted on the Internet that "confirms" what I already believe.
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Old 05-26-08, 09:22 AM   #16
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Perfectly. "I wouldn't be surprised at all" - AKA - I'll believe any BS posted on the Internet that "confirms" what I already believe.
or AKA - if it waddles like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, geeee it might just be a duck!

...and you're obviously quoting me completely out of context because you've got nothing.
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Old 05-26-08, 09:36 AM   #17
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.....and they can (and will) jail you for up to 24 hours.....
In GA. & TN. they will put you in jail for anything they feel like putting you in jail for. Chewing gum and walking backwards on the wrong side of the street after 10 PM? Go to jail.
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Old 05-26-08, 09:44 AM   #18
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To be perfectly frank I couldn't give a stuff what your country is like to live in since I don't live there and don't intend to. It only starts affecting us (i.e. the rest of the world) when you start invading other countries for their resources under the guise of 'the war on terror' so to be honest, no I don't truly go into heads up mode.... actions speak louder than words and based on you country's actions in the ME I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a bit of a police state not unlike that described in that factoid, but like I said, I really couldn't give a stuff either way.

Does that answer your question?
Your intention to make a valid assessment of the matter is self serving in the least, if there is a valid assessment, and vague at best.

The reason you responded to this thread was what?
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Old 05-26-08, 09:53 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Schwinnhund View Post
I don't know what State this occurred in, but in Ga., and in Tn., you are required by law to have ID on your person at all times, either a Drivers License, or State-Issued ID, unless you are under 16 years old. It is a $35.00 fine for not having it, and they can (and will) jail you for up to 24 hours, until your true identity can be determined through fingerprints, or other methods. A Peace Officer has the right demand ID at any time, for any reason.
I don't know whether GA or TN requires you to have ID on your person at any time (do you have a cite), but I do know that a police officer does not have the right to demand ID at any time, for any reason. In any state. See Kolender v. Lawson.
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Old 05-26-08, 10:50 AM   #20
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I did a quick google search and couldn't find any law in Tn or Ga requiring you to carry ID. I did find recent court cases in both states where Judges ruled that it was unconstitutional to require voters to show ID in order to vote. I have a hard time believing that the state can't make you show ID to vote, but can demand it at any time for any reason.

Once an officer has probable cause, then most states require that you identify yourself, and you can be held until your identity is established.
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Old 05-26-08, 04:57 PM   #21
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Your intention to make a valid assessment of the matter is self serving in the least, if there is a valid assessment, and vague at best.

The reason you responded to this thread was what?
I shouldn't have responded to the troll in the first place. I won't make that mistake again.
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Old 05-26-08, 05:14 PM   #22
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I shouldn't have responded to the troll in the first place. I won't make that mistake again.
"The troll." That's funny.

Time to turn this thread into a personal attack thread, eh?

'Nother one bites the dust. Heh, heh.
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Old 05-26-08, 06:11 PM   #23
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Certainly. Mob members don't wear uniforms.

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Can somebody explain what the difference is between these cops and, say, the mob?

Ironic that these are the same goons who claim they don't have time to investigate crimes...
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Old 05-26-08, 06:22 PM   #24
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I thought the same thing, my first response would be "And your badge number is?".
Apparently you missed the part where it was stated that I was in Law Enforcement for fifteen years.

This person gets it.

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Originally Posted by carusoswi
My respect goes out toward the OP for restraint in dealing with the officer. As nice as it might make the gut feel to get even with this overreacting officer, he probably will mature to become an asset to his force and a valuable protector of persons not unlike the OP for whom, on this night, he made some trouble.
The contact occured close to where I reside. The probability of that particular officer being assigned regularly to the beat that encompasses where I reside is very high. I've seen him a few times since the contact and always wave to him, as I do all cops I see in my nightly bicycle wanderings. He didn't wave back at first, but now does. I'd like to think that if something happened to me and he was a first responder involved in it, I would not be treated like some kind of hapless, lying, drug addict tweaker on a bicycle, or some crybaby POS "whistle blower".
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Old 05-26-08, 07:03 PM   #25
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Georgia Law O.C.G.A 21-2-417 states (in laymen's terms) that all Ga. residents over the age of 16 must have on or about their persons, or under their immedeate control, a proper photo ID, at all times when outside their residence, with a few exceptions, such as being in the hospital, confined by duly appointed authorities, or other circumstances beyond personal control. You must be prepared to show ID to any duly constituted authority in Ga. upon demand. Violation of this law is punishable by a fine not less than $30.00, nor more than $100.00, and confinment until true identity can be established. ID may be any one of the following: (1) A Ga. Drivers License, even if expired. (2) ANy valid state or federal government photo ID. (3) A valid U.S. Passport. (4) A valid photo employee ID from any branch, department, agency, or entity of the U. S. Government, Ga., or any county. state of municipality, board, commision, authority, or any other entity of the State of Georgia. (5) A Valid U. S. Military Photo ID. (6) Valid Tribal Photo ID issued by a recognized Tribal Council of the state of Ga. Ga. Photo IDs are issued free of charge to anyone who: Provides proof of residency, and proof of identity in the form of a Birth or Naturalization Certificate, or valid ID from another source listed in Section 2 (a).

This law is passed in order to bring the State of Georgia into compliance with the Federal R.E.A.L. ID Act of 2005, and provisions of the PATRIOT ACTs I and II.

The 4th Amendment went out the window with passage of the PATRIOT ACTs. The Catch-22 is 'probable cause", which can mean anything a Peace Officer or judge wants it to mean at the time. The other kicker is 'National Security', which again, means whatever they want it to mean at the time. So far, it means that now, even though it is prohibited by the Constitution, they can tap your phone, tap your medical records, cell phone, internet, house, finances, imprison you with no official charge or access to a lawyer, torture you, and even place video cameras in the public libraries. They can pretty much do anything they want now, as long as they say it is for National Security. They do not have to justify or validate it, because there are no oversight provisions in the PATRIOT ACTs.

I've been warning people about this for over 30 years. Believe me when I say that I take no pleasure in being proved correct. For once in my life, I wish I had been dead wrong!

Semper Fi!

If you butt heads with the system, even if you are right, YOU WILL LOSE 99.9% of the time.

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Can you link to this law?

A Peace Officer, under the 4th amendment, only has a right to detain a person and demand ID under set circumstances.

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