TromboneAl

Here's a picture from my bike ride yesterday:



The speed limit is around 45 MPH, with some cars doing 55.

Any tips to make this kind of riding as safe as possible?

apricissimus 

My first instinct would be ride in the right tire track, or even further right. I say that, instead of taking the lane, because while that truck makes the road look pretty narrow, but I'm betting that truck is a good deal wider than most motor vehicle. Riding toward the right will make it easier for cars to pass you.

I'm sure a lot of people will tell you to take the lane, and they might be right. I don't have a lot of experience riding on roads like this.

apricissimus 

Actually, my response above assumes that there's no shoulder for a long stretch. If it's only for a short bit, take the lane and be assertive.

gonzohill

Stay away from log trucks on down hill grades. They cant stop very fast and their brakes are usually hot so that makes it even harder for them to stop.

zeytoun

Your biggest danger is probably blind curves, especially on an uphill with no room to pass.

Get a really bright blinky and a rear view mirror.

Approaching right turn curves, check for cars behind you. Move out to the middle of the lane so that any approach get the clue, as well as see you sooner. Around left turns stay to the right more. In both cases, make sure to give the stay-back hands to any cars approaching.

maddyfish

The above look like excellent suggestions. My default riding track would be about 30" to the left of the of the right line, watching sight lines around corners, moving as needed so that you could be seen by approaching drivers.
Down hills bomb out full speed.

veloGeezer

If there is steady traffic at 45 to 55 mph on a road like that, I would take a pass and ride someplace else.

I ride this kind of stuff here in PA all the time. that's basically what we got to ride. Winding roads through the forest, up and down ridges with no shoulder. And if you are really in the middle of nowhere, no lines painted in the road, either.

On that same road with light traffic, where I may see 2 or 3 cars an hour, I would just ride where I want and move to the right when I heard a motor.

But a road like that with steady traffic is death on a stick if you ask me. It just isn't worth it. Especially if there are construction vehicles, logging trucks, or other types frieght regularly using that road. The thing is, at the speeds you say people are travelling, you won't survive the collision, especially with a truck.

I'd find other roads, but if you just absolutely have to ride that one, then take your money and place your bets. It's your life.

TromboneAl

Thanks for the tips. I think I will indeed avoid this road most of the time. Perhaps in the winter, when there are fewer tourists and logging trucks.

veloGeezer

that's exactly what I do. There are some roads around here go near state parks that are dangerous because of people with RV and boat trailors in the summer, and roads that go by ski areas that are full of rowdy teenagers during ski season.

then there are some roads that have alot of traffic between 4 and 6 pm on weekdays, some roads that go by creeeks that are full of kyakers on hot sumer weekends

...it's all just knowing your area. My philospohy is to avoid car traffic as much as possible, which is easy to do out in the middle of nowhere, but you still have to pick you routes with an eye to local traffic.

Bekologist

"Logging trucks are big and fast,
and smell like Christmas as they pass."

Daytime visible blinkies, high vis clothing, ears listening and a mirror back... plus the ability to ride the white stripe and occasionally ride gravel on a skinny slick are important.

I use hand signals to signal the go ahead to truckers out on roads like this more than in the city seems like. does it do any good? I think so by letting the trucker know you've seen them coming up behind you and it's all good.

Zeytoun's take on it

is well said.

HiYoSilver

There is no safe way. Stay away from logging trucks, you don't want a log falling off on you from a sudden driver move.
If you must use this road, switch to motorcycle.

bkrownd

Death trap. Only do it with a large group.

Widsith

That's exactly why I have about given up on the idea of commuting to the office on my bike. I drive 23 miles each way by Interstate highway, and all the non-Interstate routes I've been able to map out are at least a few miles longer and at least two-thirds of each route would be on roads just like that one. There aren't usually any log trucks, but there are plenty of other trucks and cars, moving along at a steady 40-55 mph for miles at a stretch. I've driven those alternate routes a few times, imagining that I'm on my bike, and each time been grateful to have a metal cage around me. There are just too many areas between my home and office where there are no residential neighborhoods and the highways are the only way through the countryside. The scenery is pretty, but the roads are too narrow and the traffic too thick and too fast -- for me, anyway.

sojourn

Stay away from this one........just a suggestion.

twiggy_D

How to make it safer?

High vis tabbard or top, something with relective strips, big lights so people can see you from front and rear, riding defensively. Take the lane when there's nothing around, position yourself so you can see round corners, only give up the lane to avoid being hit, give yourself plenty of wiggle room ect.

joejack951

I'm surprised by the number of people freaking out about a road based on a one picture and a short description. A few more details would help:

1. What are the sightlines for passing like? Are there long stretches of good sightlines/dashed centerlines?
2. Any sections of shoulder to use as a turnout?
3. Is traffic constantly heavy or are there long gaps in between packs?

Assuming I'm not just out for a fitness ride, if I'm going to choose between two roads and the added mileage for either choice is negligible, if one road allows me to not worry about having to stop and pullover to allow traffic to pass (traffic is building up behind me faster than it can pass me with no end in sight), then I'll choose the road that allows easier passing or that has less traffic. If there are no other routes, then one picture certainly doesn't convey to me the need to avoid the road. One may just need to get used to stopping to allow backed up traffic to pass assuming heavy traffic in both directions.

Now, where to ride on that road? Based on my estimation of the lane width, I wouldn't be looking to share that lane, so I'd center myself in the lane as with any other non-shareable lane. On a long straight stretch with no oncoming traffic and with same direction traffic trying to pass, I'd shift further right to help them get by quicker. Approaching a bad sightline or when oncoming traffic was present, I'd either be back in the center or even in the left tire track to make it absolutely clear that no one should try squeezing by.

Zeytoun's suggestions about dealing with blind curves are good, especially if they are long sweeping curves. Getting familiar with using a mirror and being able to communicate with approaching traffic will go a long way towards making you more comfortable on that sort of road.

Bekologist

I'm surprised sage advice would be misconstrued as 'freaking out' by a cyclist who's never encountered logging trucks on high speed forest roads.

NOT sharing that road as a default position, not defaulting generally right, in the face of logging truck traffic on blind curves, is a sure way to a learn about physics right quick, joejack.

It's very difficult to control a logging truck with hand signals and two seconds of lead time, joe!!!

veloGeezer

Hey, I'm not freakin out, I'm just saying that where I live, I have options. The road network around here was laid down 300 years ago, so there's roads to everywhere from everywhere.

So if I don't HAVE to ride that road, why take the risk? Why not ride the old road that goes strait over the mountain and is a hell of alot steeper (that's how you keep safe from trucks BTW: ride very steep grades on the backroads)

what Zeytoun says about riding the road to keep in plain sight can't be applied to that road if there is a steady stream of cars. That only applies in lightly travellled roads where you actually have the opportunity to get out into the lane. Some country roads are the main road and everybody takes that route. All that means is that there are lots of other less direct routes that nobody is on. At least where i live, that is the case, but that isn't universal.

So before you go strait off questioning my nerve, which is a valid question since I've actually been hit by cars before, just consider that over the years that you ride bicycles, you will minimize your chances of being killed by a car if you AVOID cars.

just look at how many threads here are about cyclists getting hit, then tell me about how to live to be an old man bouncing my grandchildren on my knee if I insist on riding bicycles every day.

That's all I'm saying. Bravado is great stuff.

But me? I'd rather live to be 100 and still ride my age on my birthday

veloGeezer

Actually, if we wanted to say "what would you do if faced with this riding situation"....

nobody really has hit on it yet

We all see that the real danger here is that the shoulder goes away there going around that corner and you seem to be at the crest of a hill

the only thing you really can do is hug the white line and ride like hell to get clear. you absolutely have to minimize your exposure here. Get out of the saddle and sprint. Drivers cut more slack when somebody is clearly doing all they can to get out of the way.

But you still have to hope and pray that a truck or trailor isn't comming behind you into oncomming traffic. You are basically putting your life in the hands of the drivers until you can make it to where the shoulder picks up again.

That's the true risk here and the only way to mitigate it is with speed to lessen the time you are exposed.

joejack951

How different is a logging truck from an 18 wheeler truck? I've encountered plenty of them on narrow, winding, hilly roads. Where it gets really narrow and winding, they are going way slower than me, especially downhill.

And please show me the blind curve setup where the logging truck driver only has two seconds to negotiate around a cyclist moving at a reasonable speed. And how is that situation vastly different when that logging truck is replaced by any other too-wide-to-share-the-lane vehicle?

Sledbikes

get a high blinking antenna so that the trucks can see you, if a logging truck hits you he wont be held responsible.

Sledbikes

thats true, i like those runs though so much fun

wyeast

Minimum of ANSI Class II visibility gear (jacket or vest). Not just for on the bike, but for visiblity if you ever have to dismount to tend to a flat/repair a derailleur, etc. If there are really minimal shoulders (like the right side of the pic - cut into a hill?) for long stretches, I'd consider even carrying a couple of road flares in case you have to tend repairs without being able to pull way off the road.

At least two blinkies on front and back (for redundancy in case batteries or the light dies) Good rear view mirrors. If riding at dusk/night - augment with strong headlights (at least 100 lumens or more) plus as much DOT-spec reflective taping as you can stand putting on your bike. I'd also consider a high-mounted blinky (either helmet-mounted or on a fiberglass flagpole mounted to the bike) to increase your visibility over hill crests / in front of other cars.

Take the lane, drift right when safe to be passed as traffic approaches. Brace for wind buffeting as trucks pass you. (i.e. if you have aero bars, get up and get a firmer grip on the main bars, ready on the brakes if necessary)

Swing wide unless being passed (but not so wide you cross the center line) on turns to give yourself both an early view around the turn, and to maximize your visibility time to traffic behind you.

Sledbikes

drive one and find out i drove one for a season and was told any collision involving my truck would be at fault to the other person its common sense not to mess with logging trucks and a enforced law in some areas. as for downhill a great deal of pressure is on the brakes if they give out you better not be in front of it.

buzzman

I'm surprised that I probably fall into the category that would not see this road as much of a problem unless the traffic volume, particularly the number of trucks and RV's, was quite high. I often feel when I post in A&S that I must be a far less assertive rider and less of a risk taker than other riders so I'm perplexed by how many have expressed such strong reticence to ride this kind of road. Most long distance tourists have ridden these kinds of roads for many miles, often in the rain, fog and sleet.

From what I see in the picture the road is well-graded, smooth, and has reasonable, though not great, sight lines. I frequently ride roads like this right along with an occasional logging truck but the road surface is often not as good as this, which can mean negotiating a frost heave, pothole or broken pavement as a truck is bearing down on me.

Without knowing the frequency of the truck traffic I'm hard pressed to rule this road out. As far as how I'd ride I'm with Zeytoun, Bek and interestingly enough JoeJack on this one.

I've got nothing against hugging that white line if one of these guys needs some passing room and a nice wave of thanks in that side mirror may mean even more passing room for me or some other cyclist the next day. This looks more to me like a west coast road than a New England road and what I recall of those was not only the logging trucks but what, I think, were called "chip trucks" that were basically box cars of wood chips that moved along quite fast and created an enormous blow by affect. However, a lot of "chip trucks" plus the logging trucks and RV's (amateur drivers of wide vehicles!) would definitely make me consider an alternative route.