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  1. #1
    uke
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    Woman killed when struck by bicyclist

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6821327.story

    Woman killed when struck by bicyclist in Pacific Palisades
    The woman was crossing the street on Palisades Drive when hit by a teenager bicycling to band practice.
    By Andrew Blankstein
    10:15 AM PDT, October 22, 2008
    A woman died this morning after being hit by a teenage bicyclist in Pacific Palisades, Los Angeles police said.

    The woman, who was 70, was crossing the street in the 600 block of Palisades Drive just north of Sunset Boulevard shortly before 7 a.m. when she was hit by the 16-year-old boy riding his bicycle.

    The boy, a student at Palisades High School, was on his way to band practice when the accident occurred, said Lt. Kat Thomas of the Los Angeles Police Department's West L.A. division.

    "He's just devastated," Thomas said of the boy, who sustained cuts and bruises.

    It was not immediately known how fast the boy was traveling, but it was still dark outside when the accident occurred. Authorities also did not know if the woman suffered fatal injuries when she was struck or when she fell to the ground.

    The woman, who was not immediately identified pending notification of her family, was pronounced dead at the scene. LAPD asks anyone with information to call its West L.A. traffic division at (213) 473-0222.
    I recall a few people here stating they didn't believe it was possible for a cyclist to strike and kill someone--this argument was used as a justification for cycling past stopped schoolbuses dropping off children. Here's one more reason to reconsider such tactics.

    JesseDuncan:I just love how "cars will be forced to cross the double yellow lines on dangerous limited visibility roads".

    I don't want to have a head on but oh god, I HAVE to fling myself into oncoming traffic to pass, theres no alternative!!!

  2. #2
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uke View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6821327.story



    I recall a few people here stating they didn't believe it was possible for a cyclist to strike and kill someone--this argument was used as a justification for cycling past stopped schoolbuses dropping off children. Perhaps it might be a good idea to reconsider such tactics.
    something similar happened in portland a while back.

    but still, these are the exceptions, not the rule. usually bikes don't kill people. cars do.
    pro-meter: lol

    blog

  3. #3
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    Something like that happened in Melbourne. It's why I have the sig I do. It can and does happen, and you don't see it happen much mainly because there aren't that many bicyclists out there yet.
    Current stable: Sun Atlas X-type (mine), Trek Navigator 3 (wife), two Sun Revolution cruisers (wife, daughter)

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    Quote Originally Posted by uke View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6821327.story

    I recall a few people here stating they didn't believe it was possible for a cyclist to strike and kill someone--this argument was used as a justification for cycling past stopped schoolbuses dropping off children. Here's one more reason to reconsider such tactics.
    It does happen occasionally. Bike-ped can be a brutal collision. Typically the pedestrian walks off the curb in front of a bicyclist who has the right of way. Often the pedestrian does this without looking at all, as they hear no cars coming and decide, perhaps subconsciously, that they don't need to look. Of course, even if they look, it can be difficult for a ped to notice a bicyclist coming just as it is difficult for drivers to notice bicyclists. I'd guess that when a rare death occurs it most likely is not the direct result of the collision but of the victim's hitting their head on the pavement. I'd also guess that many more pedestrians die from head injuries after tripping and falling or slipping than from collisions with bikes. But I don't feel like looking that up right now. Research project for someone.

  5. #5
    L T X B O M P F A N S R apricissimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uke View Post
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6821327.story

    I recall a few people here stating they didn't believe it was possible for a cyclist to strike and kill someone--this argument was used as a justification for cycling past stopped schoolbuses dropping off children. Here's one more reason to reconsider such tactics.
    :raises hand:

    You're mostly talking about me I think. And yes I maintain that it's nearly impossible to kill someone when you're riding at around 5 mph as was stated in that thread you cited.

  6. #6
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    It happened a few years ago here in DC. Cold winter night led to a collision between two older gentlemen (50s and 60s). The story as I recall is the pedestrian hit his head when he fell to to the floor. -- I didn't hear anyone argue for pedestrian helmets, BTW -- At least in the public papers, they never discussed who was at fault and/or had right of way.

    I write a cold winter night led to the collision since it was suggested that everyone was in a hurry due to the bitter cold.

  7. #7
    52-week commuter DCCommuter's Avatar
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    As I recall, in the case that Invisiblehand mentions the newspaper coverage said that the last time a pedestrian had been killed in the area by a collision with a cyclist was 26 years earlier. In the DC area over 400 people a year are killed in automobile accidents, so over 10,000 people were killed by automobiles since the last time someone was killed by a bicycle.

    That's why bicycle fatalities make the paper but automobile fatalities don't unless there is something noteworthy about the case.
    The United States of America is the only democratic nation in the world to deny citizens living in the nation's capital representation in the national legislature. District residents have no vote in either the U.S. Senate or U.S. House of Representatives. www.dcvote.org

  8. #8
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Over 40,000 deaths a year caused by motor vehicles vs ? by cyclists? Not to mention the issue of DUI...

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

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  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
    Over 40,000 deaths a year caused by motor vehicles vs ? by cyclists? Not to mention the issue of DUI...

    Aaron
    im pretty sure riding a bicycle drunk would also increase the risk of collision
    2008 Raleigh Mojave 2.0

  10. #10
    duh-river foe
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    Last year in Boston a woman was struck by a wrong-way cyclist on a one-way street who broke her arm. The ******* biker pretty much yelled 'sorry' and rode off without stopping - just about everything we would hate in a driver who did the same.

  11. #11
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    I know a guy that was killed as a pedestrian by a cyclist. Happened right down the street from where I lived at school (Isla Vista).

    Strangely enough, I also know a cyclist who went head-on with a motorcycle (they were both taking the best-line through the corner, but in opposite directions). They both walked just fine with not a scratch.

  12. #12
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCCommuter View Post
    As I recall, in the case that Invisiblehand mentions the newspaper coverage said that the last time a pedestrian had been killed in the area by a collision with a cyclist was 26 years earlier. In the DC area over 400 people a year are killed in automobile accidents, so over 10,000 people were killed by automobiles since the last time someone was killed by a bicycle.

    That's why bicycle fatalities make the paper but automobile fatalities don't unless there is something noteworthy about the case.
    That is an interesting thought. But anecdotally speaking, it seems like most auto fatalities do make the paper/news. I don't recall the cyclist/pedestrian fatality report as being sensationalized. What do you recall DC?

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    Senior Member Denny Koll's Avatar
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    This is about as rare as a fatal MUP accident.

    We had a pedestrain/bike accident on the local MUP a few years ago. The cyclist died.

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    -i stop for any school-bus when the red lights are flashing, slow down when yellow. it's somewhat of a pita, but it is the law (Vehicular Bicycle-VB)!

    -i wonder if the tuba player/student was VB (riding in same direction-with traffic, observing laws of the road), if riding at dusk/dark, did he have lights on, and was the pedestrian j-walking?

    -not to remove from the tradgety of the OP article reporting incident that resulted in age 70 female's death, but it is ironic in how the reporting seem to circumvent more common events/fatalities and center on spectaculars. it's the story that makes the sale?

    be carefull out there, and ride with our law (VB).

  15. #15
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
    Over 40,000 deaths a year caused by motor vehicles vs ? by cyclists? Not to mention the issue of DUI...

    Aaron
    Oh, well that makes it alright then.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  16. #16
    52-week commuter DCCommuter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    I don't recall the cyclist/pedestrian fatality report as being sensationalized. What do you recall DC?
    The cyclist/pedestrian story was one paragraph, maybe two, inside the metro section. Almost no details.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    But anecdotally speaking, it seems like most auto fatalities do make the paper/news.
    There's no way the Post covers 400 auto fatalities a year.
    The United States of America is the only democratic nation in the world to deny citizens living in the nation's capital representation in the national legislature. District residents have no vote in either the U.S. Senate or U.S. House of Representatives. www.dcvote.org

  17. #17
    Senior Member bgilchrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    :raises hand:

    You're mostly talking about me I think. And yes I maintain that it's nearly impossible to kill someone when you're riding at around 5 mph as was stated in that thread you cited.
    Wait - you aren't actually trying to argue that because you don't think that you can kill someone with a bike at 5mph you don't have to stop for a school bus????? Your convenience is more important than a child's safety?

    You can obviously operate a computer, so you can't possibly be that stupid!

  18. #18
    Senior Member bgilchrist's Avatar
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    I'm worried more about pedestrian collisions than vehicle collisions. Why? Because a pedestrian will think nothing of looking you in the eye as you approach them in the middle of a block then stepping off the curb right in front of you expecting you to stop immediately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bgilchrist View Post
    I'm worried more about pedestrian collisions than vehicle collisions. Why? Because a pedestrian will think nothing of looking you in the eye as you approach them in the middle of a block then stepping off the curb right in front of you expecting you to stop immediately.
    Then don't ride in the gutter.

    (I'm spoiled; not many cities design streets specifically as 30-foot bike routes (with local residential traffic) that parallel the busier arterials, so cyclists can easily take-the-lane anywhere without inconveniencing drivers).
    Last edited by Saving Hawaii; 10-26-08 at 12:25 AM.

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    Senior Member bgilchrist's Avatar
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    What do you mean by gutter? I ride a minimum of 1 meter out from the curb. I encounter pedestrians stepping out without looking in both residential and main areterial streets.

    30' wide bike routes? nice.

  21. #21
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgilchrist View Post
    Wait - you aren't actually trying to argue that because you don't think that you can kill someone with a bike at 5mph you don't have to stop for a school bus????? Your convenience is more important than a child's safety?

    You can obviously operate a computer, so you can't possibly be that stupid!
    Wait...what? Safety decrees that when you get off a bus, you wait until the bus pulls away to try and cross the street, so you can see what is coming behind the bus. If kids are wandering off the school bus and immediately crossing the road in front of the bus, someone needs to teach their kids better.
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

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    Conservative Hippie
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    ^^No. The time to cross a street after departing a school bus is while the bus has traffic stopped. Not all bus stops are located at crosswalks and intersections. In these cases crossing after the bus has pulled away could be jaywalking, and is certainly more dangerous while traffic is moving.

    Of course the child should be taught to check for moving traffic even if the stopped bus is present, because there is no telling when a complete fool is going come along and try to drive around a stopped school bus.
    Last edited by CommuterRun; 10-26-08 at 04:36 AM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allister View Post
    Oh, well that makes it alright then.
    Absolutely...I was trying to make the point that the media sensationalizes things like this, but seems to complete ignore the fact that over 40,000 people are killed via motor vehicles every year, not to mention the 2.9 million that are injured.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

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  24. #24
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exit. View Post
    Wait...what? Safety decrees that when you get off a bus, you wait until the bus pulls away to try and cross the street, so you can see what is coming behind the bus. If kids are wandering off the school bus and immediately crossing the road in front of the bus, someone needs to teach their kids better.
    Maybe it's different in Canada, but here in the states the school bus will maintain it's position until the children have crossed the street. That's why the buses have the blinking lights and stop sign.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  25. #25
    L T X B O M P F A N S R apricissimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgilchrist View Post
    Wait - you aren't actually trying to argue that because you don't think that you can kill someone with a bike at 5mph you don't have to stop for a school bus????? Your convenience is more important than a child's safety?

    You can obviously operate a computer, so you can't possibly be that stupid!
    I pretty much said everything I need to say about that in the thread cited by the OP... And yeah, I stand behind what I said in that thread.

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