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Old 10-28-08, 03:33 PM   #1
pueblonative
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Does pro-bike always equal anti-car

I've been thinking about this for a while and it seems like a lot of people on here are anti-car. Maybe it's just my bad perception, but I don't think the two necessarily have to equate. Sure, I prefer a bike to a car, but I don't think that we should ban cars. Hopefully this will start a discussion.
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Old 10-28-08, 04:03 PM   #2
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I think there is a need for cars, obviously: millions live too far from work and have no public transportation available to them. Others are elderly, disabled, make multiple trips per day, ferry kids and others around, etc., etc. I am against irresponsible car use, however: using a car for every trip when a bicycle, walking or bus would be sufficient, as well as those who drive for recreation and leisure. Most motorists make little or no attempt to reduce their driving and many of those people are decidedly anti-bike. We would all be alot happier, safer and healthier if there were only a third as many cars on the road as there are and that can be done if those who don't NEED to drive didn't.
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Old 10-28-08, 04:03 PM   #3
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We can share the roads. I'm not anti-car; I'm anti-inconsiderate / aggressive drivers.
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Old 10-28-08, 04:04 PM   #4
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Your perception is sound. Many folks on this forum are anti-car. Others are anti-only certain types of cars. Others look at it like I do and are not anti-car, just pro-bike.

I see the value of a car as being directly related to it's potential utilitarian value. If I have a job that I can't do on a bike, will the car be able to step up to the plate? Is it a car I can carry my fishing rods in without having to stick them out the window? Can it tow a trailer? Can I throw a load of firewood in the back without having to worry about depreciation? What about a dead deer? Can I fit a bike inside without having to take it apart?
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Old 10-28-08, 04:26 PM   #5
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I take into account all the peripheral issues that have
shaped, denegrated etc, our society by virtue of our
choosing to be an autocentric society and I am very
anti-car
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Old 10-28-08, 04:47 PM   #6
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And again, I'm not suggesting that everybody on this board is anti-car, just a lot of them. But I do agree there should be a lot more biking.
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Old 10-28-08, 04:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
I think there is a need for cars, obviously: millions live too far from work and have no public transportation available to them. Others are elderly, disabled, make multiple trips per day, ferry kids and others around, etc., etc. I am against irresponsible car use, however: using a car for every trip when a bicycle, walking or bus would be sufficient, as well as those who drive for recreation and leisure. Most motorists make little or no attempt to reduce their driving and many of those people are decidedly anti-bike. We would all be alot happier, safer and healthier if there were only a third as many cars on the road as there are and that can be done if those who don't NEED to drive didn't.
Actually, in my town I've encountered few anti-bike people. While I wouldn't consider the town very pro-bicycle, I haven't had the horror stories that i've read about.
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Old 10-28-08, 05:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by pueblonative View Post
I've been thinking about this for a while and it seems like a lot of people on here are anti-car. Maybe it's just my bad perception, but I don't think the two necessarily have to equate. Sure, I prefer a bike to a car, but I don't think that we should ban cars. Hopefully this will start a discussion.
I tend to agree with others... I am not anti car, but pro people. The funny thing is that when I tried to introduce pro bike concepts in the past, John Forester would always slap them down as being anti car.

I think we have done our nation a terrible disservice by becoming nothing but auto drivers... we have forgotten to walk... and our health shows this.

The reality is that many of our little day to day tasks can be accomplished by either walking or cycling... but the nature of our neighborhoods is such that both walking and cycling are discouraged. But to change that is viewed as anti car as the result generally means limiting the car in some manner. I believe it is more gaining balance... we have become far too dependent on the auto for everything... at the exclusion of mere walking... therefore we are not being anti car, but simply seeking balance where the pro car attitude has simply gone too far.
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Old 10-28-08, 05:22 PM   #9
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When I'm in my car, I'm anti-bike and anti-pedestrian.
When I'm walking, I'm anti-bike, anti-car.
When I'm biking, I'm anti-car, anti-ped.

When I'm on bikeforums...
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Old 10-28-08, 05:30 PM   #10
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I love driving. I also love watching TV and eating burgers. The thing is, too much of any of those things will make you fat and stupid.
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Old 10-28-08, 05:31 PM   #11
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I think anti cyclist car owners are the bigger target among bike lovers. Very few of us don't also have a car. And w/0 a car, we'd find it would negatively impact our cycling. At least a couple times a year, i have to resort to a car to get my bike to where I need it to be.
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Old 10-28-08, 05:31 PM   #12
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Actually, in my town I've encountered few anti-bike people. While I wouldn't consider the town very pro-bicycle, I haven't had the horror stories that i've read about.
This being the internet, I think more horror stories get reported than actually happen.
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Old 10-28-08, 07:29 PM   #13
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The sad thing is, as a cycling advocate, I've encountered traffic planners & DOTD engineers who were openly anti-bike.

So, yeah, I come across rather aggressive, ummm, make that assertive in my stance for cyclist accommodations & rights.

Responding to my environment, I guess.
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Old 10-28-08, 08:42 PM   #14
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I'm not anti-car, I'm anti-waste. It's just that most car journeys are extremely wasteful.

That said, is being anti-car so bad?

Last edited by Allister; 10-28-08 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 10-28-08, 09:53 PM   #15
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During the Eisenhower administration when the US was in the post WWII era of suburbanization and the development of the interstate highway system Dr. Paul Dudley White, noted cardiologist, predicted that over dependence on the automobile would lead to increases in obesity, heart disease and other illnesses related to a more sedentary life style- he was right.

Social theorists predicted a disenfranchisement from the natural environment and that by closing ourselves off in metal boxes we would lose basic connections to one another on a social level- I happen to think they were to some degree correct.

In the 1960's and 70's environmentalists began to predict an over dependence on fossil fuels, increases in carbon emissions and airborne pollutants associated with the use and manufacture of the automobile- I think they were correct.

Economists saw it as an opportunity to create new jobs, income and a new industry and they were right but it also created a gross dependence on the auto industry to such an extent that it fostered an industry that went out of control with it's own self promotion and led to a dominance of our landscape and cities.

That said I, too, own a car. But I, for the above reasons and the fact that I love riding my bike, limit the use of my automobile. Does that make me anti-car? Does it make me anti-car that I support policies that might make automobile's more efficient? Less polluting? Or less dominant in our urban environments?

Anti-car? I don't know you tell me.

I just think they're overused and we've forgotten that it's a privilege, not a right, that we have them and that the whole planet shares in the consequences of their use.
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Old 10-28-08, 10:11 PM   #16
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a third of americans do not or cannot drive;

if we seek to accomodate this substantial portion of the population with transit options other than automobiles, it could be misconstrued by gashuffers like jon forestor as being 'anti-car' but that mischaracterization is distinctly pro-car.


does pro-bike equal anti-car?

....only to the car lovers intent on continuing to perpetuate autocentricity on american rights of way.
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Old 10-28-08, 10:13 PM   #17
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I'm not particularly anti-car, but I am anti bad driver. In practice, that means that I'm anti-50% of the population who clearly have no business being behind the wheel of a car :-)
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Old 10-28-08, 11:05 PM   #18
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...
Economists saw it as an opportunity to create new jobs, income and a new industry and they were right but it also created a gross dependence on the auto industry to such an extent that it fostered an industry that went out of control with it's own self promotion and led to a dominance of our landscape and cities.
No doubt we created a monster. And now look where it's got us. The domestic auto industry is an ugly ugly scene, and now it is holding the entire economy hostage. In the bailout frenzy they suck up 25 billion and are back at the trough begging for more. Without constant infusions into these bankrupt companies, possibly hundreds of thousands, millions? of jobs will be lost. It cannot live and it cannot die. It is Zombie Industry.
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Old 10-29-08, 12:56 AM   #19
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1- get smaller (in America at least)

2- be used for longer distances

3- phone and other gadgets should be banned

4- require a more strict license

5- be found guilty when hitting a bike without witnesses...
1,2 I don't care.
3,4 I agree with you
4a Stricter enforcement of the laws.
5. What!? Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? If the government cannot prove that the car driver was at fault, then the driver should not be found guilty.
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Old 10-29-08, 01:08 AM   #20
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I tend to agree with others... I am not anti car, but pro people. The funny thing is that when I tried to introduce pro bike concepts in the past, John Forester would always slap them down as being anti car.

I think we have done our nation a terrible disservice by becoming nothing but auto drivers... we have forgotten to walk... and our health shows this.

The reality is that many of our little day to day tasks can be accomplished by either walking or cycling... but the nature of our neighborhoods is such that both walking and cycling are discouraged. But to change that is viewed as anti car as the result generally means limiting the car in some manner. I believe it is more gaining balance... we have become far too dependent on the auto for everything... at the exclusion of mere walking... therefore we are not being anti car, but simply seeking balance where the pro car attitude has simply gone too far.
How many recent post have you made which included the subject of cars being banned from the city core?

So to you, gaining balance, is banning cars from the city core!
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Old 10-29-08, 01:10 AM   #21
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...does pro-bike equal anti-car?
Are you really pro-bike when you are willing to accept any bike lane, no matter how dangerous it is to cyclist?
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Old 10-29-08, 01:22 AM   #22
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Are you really pro-bike when you are willing to accept any bike lane, no matter how dangerous it is to cyclist?
At least we're not talking fourth-graders trying to ride VC down arterials.
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Old 10-29-08, 02:11 AM   #23
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The sad thing is, as a cycling advocate, I've encountered traffic planners & DOTD engineers who were openly anti-bike.
So, yeah, I come across rather aggressive, ummm, make that assertive in my stance for cyclist accommodations & rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allister View Post
I'm not anti-car, I'm anti-waste. It's just that most car journeys are extremely wasteful.
That said, is being anti-car so bad?
.....
Da Tinker.. Anti Cyclist. Start with the U.S. Secretary of Transportation- Mary Peters.
Allister.. Its not the car, its the car culture and the waste of resources for journey's in which less intense energy consumption is possible. That, and the manners that auto culture has put upon our people when the frustrations of gridlock , etc. makes us a little crazy.
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Old 10-29-08, 06:28 AM   #24
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How many recent post have you made which included the subject of cars being banned from the city core?

So to you, gaining balance, is banning cars from the city core!
Sure why not, as automobiles have intruded in so much of our lives everywhere else... and huge chunks of our real estate have been devoted to the service of the automobile. Perhaps gaining balance IS limiting auto access in some places.

BTW lest you think I am banning people, I am not... I envision parking structures outside of and around that city core, with the center area a large mall where people can walk, shop and congregate, laugh, entertain and mingle.

I envision shopping areas through out the city were stores line the complete streets where indeed cars are permitted, and cyclists are welcome as well as pedestrians... where sidewalk cafes with open seating invite people in tree lined lanes. Where the first thing you encounter is NOT a huge open sea of a parking lot, but the actual shops. Parking is in the rear, or underground. Walkways between shops permit access to shopping. But the main focus is on people, not cars.

Yeah, I call it balance. 'Cause what we have now is more like "dependence." Try to keep in mind that we are "addicted to oil."
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Old 10-29-08, 07:37 AM   #25
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Are you really pro-bike when you are willing to accept any bike lane, no matter how dangerous it is to cyclist?
THAT'S a gross mischaracterization of my platform. He aha ke ano?

Fellas like cbhi stand exemplary of bicyclists that are anti-populist and operate with a 'cars first and foremost' attitude towards public space design.

Exactly the type of person i described in my first post.......


"(pro bike equals anti-car)...only to the car lovers intent on continuing to perpetuate autocentricity on american rights of way."
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