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  1. #1
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Vancouver's new mayor

    ... is a cycling advocate.



    Let's see if he makes a difference for cyclists without alienating too many motorists (aka- voters)
    Last edited by closetbiker; 11-10-09 at 01:08 PM.
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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Why do I care if he alienates motorists? Drivers of cars already have free parking, set the speed limits and dominate the roads... how about a bit of balance... let's piss off a few drivers and give a bit to the other road users.

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    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    trouble is, when you piss off the drivers, they vote you out.

    Vancouver is pretty bike friendly and the goal is to get bike use up to 10% of all travel, but one big issue is to take away a lane used by drivers on a major bridge for use by cyclists but the last time that went through a trial (the council actually took 2 lanes away from drivers) all council members and mayor that supported the temporary trial lost the seats in the next election.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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    Senior Member EnigManiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    ... is a cycling advocate.



    Let's see if he makes a difference for cyclists without alienating too many motorists (aka- voters)
    We thought Miller here in Toronto was too. Lots of pictures of him riding/posing with his bike, commuting to City Hall. And what do we have? An official bike plan that runs further behind every year. Redesign of major routes that do not include bike lanes. Car-centric councillors that thwart any efforts to install bike lanes.

    Don't hold your breath is all I'm saying. But I hope he improves cycling conditions.
    The slow down is accelerating

  5. #5
    Senior Member EnigManiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Why do I care if he alienates motorists? Drivers of cars already have free parking, set the speed limits and dominate the roads... how about a bit of balance... let's piss off a few drivers and give a bit to the other road users.
    +1
    The slow down is accelerating

  6. #6
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigManiac View Post
    ...Don't hold your breath is all I'm saying. But I hope he improves cycling conditions.
    I'm not, but at least he does actually ride a bike (he's a commuter) and he's shown up at critcal mass rides. Robertson rides his bike. It's no prop.

    Right now Vancouver has a 4% ride share for bikes, he's campaigned to take road space away from motorist for use by cyclists. Vancouver is also poised for a Paris-style Velib program.

    The goal is a 10% ride share. It's a little optimistic, but who knows? We'll see.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    closethand- you're a cycling columnist,

    do you think 10 percent ride share of bicyclists is possible in Vancouver?

    you might have seen Portland is reporting preliminary counts of 8 percent from the most recent rider census...

    if so, how will vancouver achieve this goal?

    what role does infrastructure and street redesign play in closetbiker's vision of vancouver's cycling future?

    were you hinting, closetbiker, since the culture of motoring has become so ingrained in canada that politicians should kowtow to the auto lobby, perpetuate unsustainable urban sprawl, and stand in the way of greater accommodation for bikes because it's politically expedient?

    i thought i saw some apologist notions from closet biker that redesign of vancouver's transportation network is doomed politically because of the strength of an auto-dependant culture.

    locally, in seattle, road diets that turned 4 lane arterials into 2 lanes plus center turn lane plus bike lanes improved motor vehicle traffic thruput while making high traffic cooridors amenable to more bicyclist traffic.

    perhaps the new mayor of vancouver is looking at some of the results seen in other cities and hoping to encourage livable, bikeable communities thru streetscape redesigns.


    having a mayor that's an avid cyclist isn't going to hurt though! i bet he's more a fan of pucher than forestor, and i bet he loves Momentum magazine!!!
    Last edited by Bekologist; 11-18-08 at 11:37 PM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  8. #8
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    politicians should kowtow to the auto lobby, apologist notions, transportation network is doomed, geez

    having a mayor that's an avid cyclist isn't going to hurt

    10% share possible? Depends on where and how you measure it. I think in the downtown core and Kitsilano, if the Velib program is approved, it's possible. In this area, it's already almost at 5% now, city wide, it's 3.3% some suburbs it's below 1%. The whole lowermainland region it's been a steady 2% for the last 15 years and hasn't changed much, but with a few initiatives, and a lot more gridlock, it'll slowly move up.

    Last year, stuck in traffic on the North Shore and heading for home (south of Vancouver) the traffic was so bad, I would have made it home faster on my bike than in the car. The more that happens, the more people will look for alternatives
    Last edited by closetbiker; 11-19-08 at 06:23 AM.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  9. #9
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    to repeat,

    what role does infrastructure and street redesign play in closetbiker's vision of vancouver's cycling future? how would closetbiker encourage vancouver trying to reach 10 percent bike modal share?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  10. #10
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    I'm curious, what's my vision Bek, and how do you get the idea that I'd want a 10% share?
    Last edited by closetbiker; 11-19-08 at 12:48 PM.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  11. #11
    tcs
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    Wow, a politician that actually rides a bicycle. How about that. Who knows what advancements this might portend for the cyclists of Vancouver?

    A politician pictured on a bicycle is the new "kissing a baby".

    tcs
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  12. #12
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    I'm curious, what's my vision Bek, and how do you get the idea that I'd want a 10% share?

    don't be so coy! i thought so! you can tell the forum - what is your vision for vancouver cycling, anyway, closetbiker? vain visions of vehicular parity?

    you should be able to tell us what your vision of cycling in vancouver is, i asked you- why so standoffish???

    why so coy about what you think should be done in your city, are you ashamed of your point of view?



    why wouldn't you want 10 percent rider share in vancouver?

    your stonewalling coupled with your allusions makes you appear an apologist for autocentrism.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 11-20-08 at 12:40 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  13. #13
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    OK, OK, OK.

    You got me.

    I was a little disappointed that Robertson got in. I wanted Forrester to be mayor.

    Seriously, can't I just make a point that our mayor is a regular cycle commuter who shows up at press conferences riding his bike and am curious if his personal choices are going to make a difference politically?

    My vision for all road users is simple respect for each other. Everyone follows the rules, yield each others right of ways, there's no problems.

    Like that'll happen. People drive or bike their personalities. Might explain a thing or two about ourselves, don't you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    it seems the overall group behavior on american roads nearly dictates rudeness from a majority of road users regardless of mode of travel... I don't see why the bicyclists should be expected to act any better than the motorists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    i've got some Sigg metal water bottles that would dent a cars quarter panel, or spider a windshield, if thrown with purpose. Also, pepper spray taped to my seatstay, at the ready for dogs, and drivers stupid enough to actually get out of the car to 'educate the cyclist.' the next time a driver pulls off the road ahead of me again, then lurch out of the car to attack me, will be considered an imminent threat to my well being, and is going to get pepper sprayed first, questioned later... i will live life NOT in fear of the gas huffing barbarians.

    Last edited by closetbiker; 11-20-08 at 06:14 AM.
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  14. #14
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post

    My vision for all road users is simple respect for each other. Everyone follows the rules, yield each others right of ways, there's no problems.

    Like that'll happen. People drive or bike their personalities. Might explain a thing or two about ourselves, don't you think?
    Yeah I've always thought that a bit of respect and "Drive Friendly" would go a long long way.

    Perhaps instead of driving/biking our personalities, maybe folks could learn to drive/bike the golden rule.

    Huge wish, eh?

  15. #15
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post

    Huge wish, eh?
    the hugest.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  16. #16
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    wow, closetbiker, had no clue you use me as your reference point for a cyclist that has had his politenessness repressed by other rude road users.

    closet, you've got no interest in increasing ridership thru infrastructure in any way, are you?

    ....being a closet vehicular cyclist deeply prejudiced against infrastructure, finds it impossible to write anything in print that endorses bike-specific infrastructure.....


    a autocentric apologist that prefers the 'cars first and foremost' design schema for rights of way and the resultant low bike rider share resultant.

    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker
    My vision for all road users is simple respect for each other. Everyone follows the rules, yield each others right of ways, there's no problems.
    THAT'S your accommodation model? simple respect, the 'no problems' pipe dream?????

    wow. you think it will work?

    Is that an engineering mandate to improve riding conditions? or are you suggesting social reprogramming?

    your vision is a worthless platitude.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 11-20-08 at 09:38 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  17. #17
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    ... your vision is a worthless platitude.
    I guess since it seems to work for you, we should all just beat ourselves to death with clubs then.

    Life is simple in the cave.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  18. #18
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    somewhere in the middle there would be common ground between our two plats.

    closetbiker, you admit the futility of your pipe dream when you brought it up.

    you agree with me that people will ride their personalities, and quote me about how there's a lot of rudeness on the roads. then you stoop to bring in an out of context quote of mine about self defense from agressive motorists getting out of their vehicles??? if you're that obsessed with my personal POV about the rudeness of autocentric road conditions in america these days, thanks for the admiration but that's kind of creepy.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 11-20-08 at 09:48 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  19. #19
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Still curious if closetbiker can specify anything in his vision of how Vancouver should plan for cyclists other than 'respect'.

    do 'road diets' like vancouver's new mayor endorse make sense from a cycling standpoint, or should politicians cave to the auto lobby and perpetuate autocentric road conditions like closetbiker has earlier suggested?
    Last edited by Bekologist; 11-20-08 at 10:01 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

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    Eh Bek, was that you I saw today biking down Lind with the five-gallon hat and the xtracycle? Taking the lane at a plodding 10mph? I mean, it's rare enough to see a cyclist take the lane in Tukwila... but plodding along in a five-gallon hat with an xtracycle and more racks and panniers than I've ever owned. You seem guilty.

  21. #21
    Resident Seaballer DogsBody's Avatar
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    -Funny: I don't see closetbiker as being an "auto-apologist" at all.
    I view his comments as coming from an "Infrastructure Realist" position: Who the hell thinks Cars are going to disappear overnight; or AT ALL?
    At this point we have to focus on the little battles in order to win OUR war.
    -Gregor's election is a good step; and I hope he proves (beyond hope for me: Being a realist; and having watched Politicians spread bs around for nearly 5 decades) to be honest in his commitments.
    -I DO think 10% ride-share is possible here; and my judgment comes from the dedication I am seeing on the commute routes by even what I would term "Fledgling" Commuters.
    If a Fledgling is willing to hump over the Ironworker's Bridge in the blustery winter rains: There is Hope.
    Infrastructure WILL foster a larger ride-share: I can say from (again) personal experience there is a large portion of our population that will (and does) get out to ride more BECAUSE there are improving bike-routes, and lanes*.
    *Note that the Main Street "Bike Lane" experiment is a failure out of the gate. I hope that the City readdresses this bungled experiment.
    -I wish I had more personal experience with the Burrard Bridge: I have ridden over it during C.M.'s; and can SEE what a risk the sidewalk is; but have no grasp of the commuter-density during the work-day.
    -I will back-up closetbiker on issues such as this though: If Gregor Robertson wants to survive more than one term; he will have to massage challenges like the Burrard Bridge carefully.
    Trying to jam a policy down the throats of the MASS of Voting Public (people in cars) is political suicide.
    As long as he proves to be honest in his word; and shows that he is attempting to make situations work well for as many as possible: He'll be okay.
    -I am a realist: There is no way in HELL we will get anywhere close to a "Bike Nirvana" in my lifetime; but I remain VERY optimistic that we WILL see improvements in infrastructure that will get more bums on bikes.
    -Comment: I REALLY think an area that NEEDS to be improved is Driver's Education Programs.
    There was a time in Alberta when I was in High School that Driver's Ed could be taken as elective course worth a couple of credits.
    I took this program and feel it was a HUGE benefit to my road awareness (on/in ANY Vehicle).
    -I STRONGLY feel that one of the "Small Battles" (as mentioned earlier) that would benefit ANY Society is MANDATORY Driver's Ed.
    And here's the "bonus clause": A prime component of the course would include ensuring that the Student educated with the thought that Cyclists have all the rights of any other road vehicle; AND Are to be treated as such.
    -I also think there is a terrible disease in regard to how MANY road-users (We Cyclists included!) view their "Rights" when on Public roads: A large portion of them have little regard for their fellow man (Eg. The "SUV makes me safer" travesty. Which propagates the thought that driving a TANK makes you safer. Or the so-called "Ninja Cyclist" riding at night with no friggin' lights).
    I honestly think road laws, AND User-thinking must be strongly directed toward people realising that they are not only responsible for themselves; but EVERYONE THEY SHARE THE ROAD WITH.
    'Nuff said for now.

  22. #22
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    somewhere in the middle there would be common ground between our two plats...
    or maybe if we were kept in seperate cages ( ooops - "facilities") we could avoid the clubbing of each other. Mix the 2 of us and - thwack-thwack. Self-defence. Only I'm not sure if it's self defence if you chase them down to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    ... I'm no shrinking violet.

    Sometimes, in congested city traffic, I chase them down and harass THEM.
    (not a troll, but simply Bek, outside of his cave, demonstrating his "vision" and without his bike, after having chased down a motorist who didn't do what Bek thought he should).
    Last edited by closetbiker; 11-20-08 at 08:33 PM.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogsBody View Post
    -I wish I had more personal experience with the Burrard Bridge: I have ridden over it during C.M.'s; and can SEE what a risk the sidewalk is; but have no grasp of the commuter-density during the work-day.
    -I will back-up closetbiker on issues such as this though: If Gregor Robertson wants to survive more than one term; he will have to massage challenges like the Burrard Bridge carefully.
    Trying to jam a policy down the throats of the MASS of Voting Public (people in cars) is political suicide.
    As long as he proves to be honest in his word; and shows that he is attempting to make situations work well for as many as possible: He'll be okay..
    The Burrard bridge was a focal point for a number of reasons. How he handles it will be interesting.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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    Resident Seaballer DogsBody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    The Burrard bridge was a focal point for a number of reasons. How he handles it will be interesting.
    Yup.
    Though my personal experience is lacking; I am up-to-speed on the challenges (I DO read), and issues.

  25. #25
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
    ... 10% share possible? Depends on where and how you measure it. I think in the downtown core and Kitsilano, if the Velib program is approved, it's possible. In this area, it's already almost at 5% now, city wide, it's 3.3% some suburbs it's below 1%. The whole lowermainland region it's been a steady 2% for the last 15 years and hasn't changed much, but with a few initiatives, and a lot more gridlock, it'll slowly move up...
    Looks like I wasn't too far off. On Feb. 13 a city report was posted on cycling statistics

    http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/...uments/tt1.pdf

    There's a map showing the ride share of each neighborhood and there are a few areas where people riding bikes to work are at or above 10%. I was somewhat surprised that the downtown core didn't have larger shares than they do but walking was higher than I thought.

    I forgot about it until I was flipping the a local paper last night and noted an article that said the mayor is disappointed that the cycle share isn't getting as large as quick as he would like.

    http://www.straight.com/article-2019...ing-hesitation

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaStraight
    “The 10-percent mode share sounds like it’s been more of an aspirational goal to date,” Robertson declared at the meeting. “My concern is we haven’t done what we need to do to be on target to hit 10 percent by 2010. What will it take to get there?”

    According to the 2006 census, 3.7 percent of all trips to work are made by bicycle, a 12-percent increase over the figure reported in the 1996 census. The cycling mode share is highest in the South Cambie and West Point Grey–Kitsilano areas, at 11.9 and 11.8 percent, respectively. The mode share in Grandview-Woodlands is also over 11 percent.

    However, the downtown mode share for bikes ranges from 1.3 percent to 5.8 percent—figures that troubled Coalition of Progressive Electors councillor David Cadman and Vision councillor Geoff Meggs. At the meeting, both suggested that this was due to reduced safety for cyclists in the city centre. Timm responded that the large percentage of pedestrians downtown contributed to the lower mode share of cycling there.
    The Burrard Bridge will have it's reallocation of lanes coming soon. Hopefully the mayor will weather that storm better than the last mayor who tried it.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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