Daily Commute

There was an article in the Columbus Dispatch earlier this week about problems unleashed dogs were causing to cyclists and pedestrians (it was in the print edition only, sorry I can't link to it). A local cycling leader was quoted as saying some of his members planned to take advantage of Ohio's new conceal-carry law, suggesting that firearms might be used if dog owners don't keep their dogs in check. Adding firearms to the mix of bicycle-car-pedestrian confrontations takes this thing to a whole new level. What do you think?

Hunter

Just because a part of the population chooses to be armed, does not mean that people get shot automatically. Most of those who procure a conceal carry permt will not draw down on anyone or anything.
Of course I have found in the 10 years I rode everywhere to do everything without a motor, that a swift kick, or continue to ride got rid of dogs. It is those who stop, or try to invoke thier ego that typically get bit by dogs while on bikes.
I know this sounds harsh, but I have owned dogs for ever, and continue to do so. I have had a dog that ran with me for years while riding.
There are alternatives to guns and or mace (which never worked with my Pit Bull) like undiluted white vinegar in a spray bottle, ultrasonic trainers, etc.
However back to the original topic I think that those who wish to see a disarmed populace should move to another country. just because people have guns does not mean the end of society. My guns have never gotten up and fired by themselves. A person has t obe on the end of the trigger for that to work. Also if someone wants to damage others, and has no guns there are always other melee weapons that work.

Ebbtide

If attacked, I'd shoot. Riding around Cleveland I've run into packs of dogs. I've not been chases yet, but I'm sure that day is comming.

I don't think you will have to worry about confrontations going to a whole new level, there is no evidence from the other 47 States that have a CCW provision that support the assertion. All the data I've seen indicates a drop in crime when concealed carry laws are introduced. Law abiding, sane, and trained individuals don't generally jeopardize themselves the way the folks at HCI/MMM would want you to think.

April 8th is the day the Sherrifs will start taking applications.

lala

Unfortunately, I don't trust the majority of folks to share your control/reserve.

Ebbtide

I can trust those who legally obtain carry permits. It is the criminal who have no regard for the law I don't trust, and there are plenty of them in our community. I guess we will have our answer within the year.

trekkie820

I know that in Cleveland it might be a good idea to carry a gun, especially if you are out after dark. I was aggro in-line skating in downtown Cleveland at 10:30 pm, and my buddy got mugged! They took his wallet, keys, etc. The other guy who we were skating with had a big-ass hunting knife in his car, so we got the other guy's stuff back, but still...

zonatandem

Our 2 ways of getting rid of chasing dogs while on our tandem:
Pilot YELLS out loud "Get off the couch!" If that does not work, stoker uses a loud whistle; which has worked.
Dogs are territorial and are protecting their turf. Having said that, some places have leash laws.
At one tandem event in Indiana a group of tandems was chased by 2 dogs; we all yelled at 'em. Then a stoker whipped a starter pistol and pulled the trigger! Instant stop for the dogs! But man, our ears hurt!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy & Kay/Zona tandem

OregonBound

And perhaps rather than kicking someone's door in you'll just shoot them? See thread below:

https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/48823-cigarette-flicked-me.html

Paul

John E

When encountering a dog, hold your water bottle high and eject a stream downward either at the animal or between you and it. The typical dog will fear that some huge animal is marking territory.

Daily Commute

I think that a gun is a horrible overreaction to a dog. There are far less lethal--and probably more effective--ways of protecting yourself against dogs. And given the road rage stories I've seen on these threads, the introduction of firearms into the situations could have left someone dead. I'll draw the line at buying dog spray.

The few times I've yelled at leash-less dog owners, I've told them that they were putting fido at risk of getting killed in a bicycle-dog accident. That kind of accident would be painful for the cyclist, but could break the back of a dog.

pletcgm

I will say that I carry a gun when I am touring, but no other time. Even when I am touring, I keep it unloaded during the day and load it at night. It's for protection while camping, no while cycling!

People already think bad enough about us, it's all we would need to kill an animal, or a human due to rage, even if we are in the right. They would be ready to throw the book at us!

Ebbtide

Let me make this clear so there is no confusion as to my intent in shooting a dog.

If my life is in danger, ie, If I'm getting my faced ripped off by a pit-bull, I'm trapped in a corner by a pack, or one of the hood-rats decides it is fun to play "sick-um" with their fighting dog, I will shoot the dog.

OregonBound

I've ridden for 35 years in more than a dozen US states in both rural areas and places like New York city, but I appear to have ridden in an entirely different America than lots of others on this board.

I've never been attacked by packs of dogs, had to defend my campsite against mauraders, or been set upon by homicidal drivers. I've had a few rude people annoy me, but not once has my life been in danger through malice.

The day I feel the need to carry a firearm while cycling or cycle camping is the day I hang up my helmet and quit.

Paul

Wasatch_commute

Amen. Not to mention all other potential problems that could ensue after getting bitten by a dog with rabbies etc...

Moonshot

Well said.

Ebbtide

Not if you loved cycling as much as me!

pyze-guy

I thank the good Lord every day that I live in Canada and don't have to worry about people bustin caps into doggies.

UncaStuart

Well, I guess I'm another one who wonders if I have been in an entirely different America. I was a letter carrier for seven years, attacked by dogs over 400 times, bitten more than 20. Guess I'm a wuss for never having shot any of those SOBs. I've bike commuted tens of thousands of miles and never had to shoot a driver yet (even though I have had my hands on, at various times, equipment such as M-16, AR-180. AR-15, M-2, M1911A, P-.08, P38, etc., etc.). What am I doing wrong? why can't I muster the effort to want to kill?

Ebbtide

That makes you NOT a "wuss"

It may have to do with perspective. If you were a previous **** victim you might think differently. The same could be had if you were ever mugged, jumped, robbed, or knew some who died from not being prepared. Where you live, how you grew up, and even what you watched on t.v. make impressions.

There are tons of gun laws in my City, none of them make me any safer.

2002 Data:

Cleveland Murders 80
Cleveland Forcible Rapes 619
Cleveland Robberies 3263
Cleveland Aggravated Assaults 2406
Cleveland Burglaries 8096
Cleveland Larceny/Thefts 13250
Cleveland Motor Vehicle Thefts 5499
Cleveland Arsons 489

This gives me a 1:20 chance of being a victim this year, even odds for someone in my immediate family. Not to mention my occupation/commute puts me in the middle of some fairly disfunctional surroundings.

All things being equal, I'd rather have non-sporting guns removed from society (civilian AND law enforcment). But the way things are, that is not going to happen in my lifetime. I'm all for being noble, but martyrdum is not for me on this issue. If someone figures out a way to stop human violence, I'm all for it. But until then, let me have the tools I feel I need to keep my family safe, just in case.

justin sane

Why? A cop can shoot a dog just for barking at him if he claims to have felt threatened by the dog, and there's nothing (legally) you can do about it because you'll just get laughed out of court (if they don't charge you with assaulting an officer because your dog "threatened" the cop). Why shouldn't I be able to shoot a dog that is actually attacking me?

I own several guns, and they've never been fired (or even loaded) outside of a firing range. That being said, if it wasn't near impossible to get a ccw permit in Los Angeles County (unless you're rich, funny how they have more rights than me) I'd be carrying all the time. I've had people try to attack me on the streets, including trying to run my bike off the road (which IS attempted murder or at the very least assault with a deadly weapon, but try to find a cop when you need one, maybe Lance Armstrong can find a cop when he needs one but I sure can't), pulling weapons on me, etc. In some (but not all) of those situations, it would have been nice to have my Glock.

Back on the topic of dogs, I would NOT shoot a dog even if it was attacking me because I'm more than capable of defending myself against a dog with my bare hands if I have to, but I can understand someone shooting a dog if it's actually attacking them.

froze

Wow someone who can defend against a dog with their bare hands, try that next time a Pit Bull latches onto your leg and have someone filming it, I need a good laugh! Even cops won't mess with a Pit...ever wonder why? When it comes to certain types of dogs, it's shoot first ask questions later.

trekkie820

Do you honestly feel that I am some lunatic who would do that? Do you think that I would turn something like some idiots in a car trying to be funny by flicking a cigarette butt at me into assault with a deadly weapon? If so, you have some strange misconception of a 20 year old. The only reason I would think of using a gun would be if I were being put in a situation where it was my life on the line, as in getting mugged. Maybe there is some fine line between getting stuff thrown at me and someone threatening my life, I don't know. I think that you need to leave the issue of me kicking the guys door alone and realize that I handled it in the wrong way, and also realize that I would NOT threaten a motorist with a gun for doing something such as cutting me off or driving too close, or throwing things at me in an attempt to be funny. The only way I advocate carrying a firearm is if my commute took me into Clevelands east side at night, which many Clevelanders can vouch for me is not a pleasant area. In Bowling Green Ohio there is no need for it, and would cause many more problems than it would "solve".

madpogue 

The whole philosophy of concealed-carry (at least as it was pushed by those supporting it here) is that it's a deterrent, not a direct defense. That is, a person contemplating commiting a crime will think twice about doing so if it's thinkable that any citizen in the are might be packing. It's interesting that this law is now being advocated for use on those incapable of making such decisions.

lala

I'm afraid that if you shot my pit-mix, I'd have to shoot you. I am so tired of this ridiculous breed bias. I guess I am for the concealed weapons law, after all. Time to get registered, etc. Perhaps I'll have to get a couple knives, too.

robertsdvd

I've been mugged at knife-point, I'm not really sure how a gun would have helped... since generally the thief has the upperhand of surprise and close-proximity, you'd first have to disarm the person and then open a gap and pull the firearm. Now, perhaps after the incident as the perp. escaped you could pull your firearm and ask the person to please stop and return the items he/she has stolen. Of course this is assuming that said criminal has not already decided it was a good idea to remove and acquire your firearm for his or her own personal use. Now, imagine you didn't have that gun that you legally acquired - then this criminal would not have a gun - this is a situation in which is a legally acquired firearm falls into the hands of a criminal. Whatever. Just don't shoot me or anyone I know. I've never fired a gun, but wouldn't mind going to a range and renting one to see what its like. Firearms are legal so far in this country, I'm not exactly sure what the process is of acquiring a gun and/or a permit... but the last time I did a quick check (I was looking into working as an armed transport guard) it was like, one saturday afternoon qualified you to carry a weapon in Mass. at least. Seems to me like there should be some extensive training and screening required (a la police officers). <Shrug> As for the pups... just keep riding... if you feel very threatened, dismount and put the bike between you and the pup - that usually confuses the hell out of most dogs... starter pistols, chemical deterrants, carry your own dog with . I was pursued going up a big ol'hill into the Wendell State Forrest on a singlesspeed by three loud spirited dogs... I kept riding (scared to hell), but kept riding and as I left their percieved property line... they stopped.. they could have easily caught up to me... I dunno... I'm just rambling now.