closetbiker

Yup. All those bad habits that'll surely lead to the collision are quite possibly bred from the bone.

It's hard to control or legislate a personality trait, but we have to install a certain type of consideration in a person if we are to reduce collisions.

I think all of us have good inside somewhere; it's just a matter of getting that aspect out.

closetbiker

Good to see the dancing bear video is mentioned.

Not seeing what is unusual, but plainly visible, is an issue.

Good explanation of the "safety in numbers" research.

genec

I think one of the more amusing things that is coming out of my reading of "Traffic" is how our own selfish behavior tends to actually make things worse.

By seeking to jump ahead at merges, by rushing ahead in stop and go traffic, and by driving around looking for parking, and by speeding... we make congestion worse for not only others, but ourselves.

Adopting an altruistic attitude toward your fellow motorists would make life not only better for them, but ultimately for each one of us. Texas used to have a slogan: "Drive Friendly." Seems like that should be the mantra for all of us.

If drivers for instance realized that every cyclist they saw meant one more parking space and that much less congestion for the motorists... we cyclists would be hailed as heroes.

closetbiker

I think that's a point I try to make (and re-make) in my column.

Be co-operative and understand that what may seem like an inconvenience, in fact, improves a drivers situation.

wahoonc

It is called Defensive Driving...I am required by my company to take the refresher course every two years.

Unfortunately most people that take the DD course are required to because they get one ticket too many and are looking for a way out.

Also most drivers I see are practicing Offensive Driving...but that is MNSHO.

Aaron

genec

No this isn't Defensive Driving. Although really DD is a good idea anyway.

The selfish driving methods are more based on drivers doing what they think is best for themselves... but the result is that when most folks do this, the end result is increased congestion for everyone, including the selfish drivers. I think I see why you are thinking of DD... but DD is really a way to keep heads up and situationally alert. Altruistic driving would of course include some DD, but the ultimate goal is to do things that are good for the group vice the self... the result is that the group and the individual are rewarded. Also due to traffic and queuing theory, it only takes a few selfish motorists to mess it up for all of us. One key example given is double parking... which benefits the one person, but ends up taking out a whole lane of the traffic flow for everyone else.

invisiblehand

Transportation lends itself to some classic models of systems where one's actions affects the payoffs to others -- i.e., the tragedy of the commons -- such that individual behavior leads to suboptimal equilibria. However, ungoverned altruistic behavior might pose its own problems. The author's experience with when to merge being one example ... merging early or only when forced.

closetbiker

Interesting insight on how smaller approaching vehicles look farther away.

Left turning vehicles that cross a cyclists path is a big problem.

It could be motorists see the smaller cyclist and judge it not only a slow vehicle (when it could be approaching quite fast) but further away.

Throw in the "dancing bear" point (not even registering what can be seen because it's not something the motorist is looking for) and the problem grows.

In absence of a car driving along with me, and a left turning vehicle ahead, I try to change the angle of my path, veering left towards the left turning vehicle, to show the driver I'm there and going faster than he may initially think.

I also wonder if using a more powerful front light might make the driver think I'm a motorcycle (and moving faster than a bicycle) and give me more time to pass before making the left turn.

genec

True... there are several counter intuitive examples given.

I think one that really comes to head though is the "slower is faster" model where a consistent slower speed yields more throughput than a model where everyone is seeking to go faster. The other interesting thing is how a small change in a few drivers can greatly effect the overall traffic picture... here the example of adaptive cruise control is used... citing that if one in 10 motorists had this (approaching the era of autonomous drive vehicles) much of the issues of stop and go driving could be eliminated (with the negative impact of making merging more difficult).

Overall however the real issue is that we all now tend to act in our own behalf, which seems to gum it up for both ourselves and others.

genec

Yeah I really started focusing on this... wondering if there was some optical effect that could make cyclists look larger and faster. Lighting, as you mentioned might help, but I am wondering if some sort of merging lines on clothing or contrasting colors or something might make a difference. Something that takes advantage of some of our optical misinterpretation.

Roody

I suspect that a lot of cyclists who post on A&S about their constant "yet another close call with a JAM" are in this category. If you have a lot of close calls--bike or car--there is something wrong with the way you operate your vehicle. There is, to put it bluntly, a psychological problem. This is one of the main points of Vanderbilt's book.

closetbiker

and I've made that point about a number of posters here.

Roody

Huh. It's been a while since I read the book, but I thought Vanderbilt made the opposite conclusion. It seems like the point of a large section of the book was that last-minute "selfish" lane merges actually result in smoother and safer traffic flow. Am I remembering this wrong?

genec

No, you have that right... but that works due to utilizing all the road that is available... but then there are other issues of selfish behavior that actually backfire for the selfish driver.

Like I said, there are a lot of counter intuitive aspects to traffic.

dorosz

Bought it at my local B&N and highly recommend it great insightful study, really underscores what years of driving and biking have taught me.

closetbiker

6 years ago I posted from a book I had read about how when individuals act in the most efficient manner possible, it does not necessarily produce a collective outcome that is efficient.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...cks#post239968

Sometimes, we have to stop people from doing what comes naturally to them in order to promote their own interests.

wahoonc

I was referring to the latter part of your post...the bit about looking out for the other guy. THAT is one of the keys to Defensive Driving.

Aaron

genec

You know... I never really associated "Drive Friendly" as "look out for the other guy..." But indeed that is implied in being friendly... you do look out for one another.

Heck I always interpreted it as sort of an "after you" kind of southern politeness, but indeed being aware is DD.

Cool.

genec

I tend to agree... but perhaps that is the heart of the problem... rather then waiting years and years, this sort of thing should be required reading for new drivers. Just like that DriveCAM thing.

Teach these habits right away in longer driving classes and we would all eventually benefit.

I would really like to see a year long driving class given in high schools... something that really went beyond the basic mechanics of driving, and went into the ethics of sharing the road.

Sure students could spend lots of time on simulators and even do road time, but there is a lot of more subtle stuff that could be taught in a real class... instead of the quick 6 week jam sessions that drivers ed is today.

dwilbur3

Lane switching for example. It saves the driver who does it a few seconds (or maybe not even that), and mucks up the highway for everybody.

wahoonc

High School? It needs to start in Pre-K! We learned basic traffic rules in 1st grade, followed by reinforcement classes over the years in the form of bicycle rodeos, walking or riding bikes to schools, etc. I personally think we need to implement it again, and have recurrent training for ALL drivers on a periodic basis.

AFAIK safe pedestrian and cycling skills are seldom if ever taught in public schools.

Aaron

genec

Sure... ideally we should have a system much like that in Copenhagen where the play ground has traffic markings that the kids use to simulate traffic scenarios. Follow that up with cycle training, and then the year long DRIVING class.

Frankly anything is better then 6 weeks of jam session followed by a wimpy test.

wahoonc

We used to have that...40+ years ago.

Aaron

genec

I got my DL in 1972 and I don't recall the training being that intense... however, it was far more than what my son did back in 2002.

I do remember "bike rodeos" as bike safety courses back in the mid 60s.

I also know that the DL tests in CA have recently been upgraded to be more difficult (this was done back about 2-3 years ago).

closetbiker

I got my DL back in '79.

I didn't need a parents permission for a learners because I was 19 and I only had to wait 2 weeks to go for my DL test.

I passed with 2 weeks practice.

Both my kids had to study hard for their learners (it was far harder than mine) and then they had to wait a year before they could go for their DL.

After they got it, they have to go through a graduated program where it takes several more years to have a regular DL. They have several restrictions when they drive and if they get a ticket or have a collision in the new driver phase, there are far more severe consequences.

I'd say, up here, things are getting better.