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  1. #1
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    Who stops at stop signs?

    This is not what you think. Check this blog post out, watch the entire video and if you wish please comment;

    http://bicycleadvocacyandsafety.blog...top-signs.html

  2. #2
    Old Fogy
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    Whose idea was it to put the stop sign so far from the intersection that you can't see the traffic from it? Try the same experiment at a normal intersection with a normally placed stop sign.

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    drive-by poster fetad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waldowales View Post
    Whose idea was it to put the stop sign so far from the intersection that you can't see the traffic from it? Try the same experiment at a normal intersection with a normally placed stop sign.
    The quote from the driver's manual in the beginning of the video states where the stop line is. It's not at the sign.

    "Stop at the marked stop line or before entering the crosswalk or before your vehicle enters the intersection"

    That dark patch of asphalt running horizontal to the main road is the crosswalk. The vehicle at 38 seconds stops at it and is the first person to pass.

    If you are approaching a road with a sidewalk running parallel to it, many times you won't be able to see vehicular traffic from the crosswalk. That's not a failed design or abnormal. There are other things to watch out for other than an opening in traffic....like pedestrians or cyclists on the sidewalk.

    This serves as a good example in favor of riding a bicycle on the road or exercising extra caution every time you come near any driveway or intersection when on the sidewalk. Most motorists pull right passed a crosswalk to the point where their bumper is at the edge of the cross street.
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    Quote Originally Posted by waldowales View Post
    Whose idea was it to put the stop sign so far from the intersection that you can't see the traffic from it? Try the same experiment at a normal intersection with a normally placed stop sign.

    I have two stop signs and one red light I've been thinking about sitting at for about 15 minutes to capture the same thing. Both of the stop signs are placed "normally", one even has another stop sign across the street in full view of the oncoming cars so they'll definitely see it. It's got nothing to do with the stop sign placement. People know they're supposed to stop- they just don't.

    And the point of the video is well taken- and they say "cyclists don't stop."

  5. #5
    Galveston County Texas 10 Wheels's Avatar
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    There should be a White Line before the Crosswalk to show vehicles Where to Stop.
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  6. #6
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    I am always amazed at how many people call out cyclists not stopping at stop signs. I don't run stop signs any more than the motorists around me. There are very few motorists that I ever see stop if there is no opposing traffic.

  7. #7
    Senior Member JonathanGennick's Avatar
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    The video is misleading. It counts as "failed" those cars that pull forward and stop at a reasonable point. Say what you want, but most drivers do not look for painted lines. They stop where they can see with a clear view.

    What you are seeing is the difference between theory and practice, between what is taught in driver's-ed and how things work in real life.

  8. #8
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    The asphalt strip is not the crosswalk, it doesn't line up with the ramps at all.

    They/you have to redo the shoot with a properly marked intersection.
    Also, without being able to see that left hand corner, you don't know if there is something blocking the view which prompts the drivers to pull ahead. (the way the driver at 1:26 keeps inching ahead makes me think he's trying to see around something)

    Agree many drivers do not stop at signs, but without clear markings only "before your vehicle enters the intersection" applies.

    Ken.

  9. #9
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    What a whiny video. Those motorists may not have been stopping per the law before the x-walk, but they stop far better than most cyclists going thru the same intersection would. To be less whiny shoot a video of motorist actually rolling thru intersections as they sometimes do.

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    Cyclists are often called out for not stopping at stop signs but that complaint is usually reserved for those who blast right on through with little or no attempt to slow down. What I saw in this video were reasonable efforts to follow the law - not perfect - but good enough for me and good enough for most people. If a cyclist had done exactly what these cagers did, very few would have any complaints.

    I've stopped at similar intersections - on my bike - signalling a right turn - and been passed by another cyclist on my right zipping between me and the curb at about 15 mph. That's the kind of thing that gets motorists mad at cyclists.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    What a whiny video. Those motorists may not have been stopping per the law before the x-walk, but they stop far better than most cyclists going thru the same intersection would.
    As they should, since they are putting the public at a much, much greater chance of risk.

    Personally, whether i'm on a bike or in a car, I only stop if there is a reason to. A reason in my book includes: other traffic exists, i need to have more time to analyze whether other traffic exists, or there is a cop or camera at the intersection. It does not include "following the rule because it exists and we must be law abiding citizens no matter what."

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacificaslim View Post
    As they should, since they are putting the public at a much, much greater chance of risk.

    Personally, whether i'm on a bike or in a car, I only stop if there is a reason to. A reason in my book includes: other traffic exists, i need to have more time to analyze whether other traffic exists, or there is a cop or camera at the intersection. It does not include "following the rule because it exists and we must be law abiding citizens no matter what."
    It's refreshing that in your world the laws exist for others and you are free to do as you please.

    Hopefully you're never out riding when a like-minded individual decides that they've analyzed the situation appropriately and proceeds to t-bone you in an intersection.

    And cyclists wonder why drivers find our behavior unpredictable and dangerous. If you want to be respected when "sharing the road", try to show a little yourself.
    Chip

  13. #13
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    Others can take the same approach as me: when there is no point in stopping, don't stop. One should only spend as much time looking around and analyzing the situation as necessary to avoid a wreck. Any additional time spent stopping and looking around provides no benefit. I just snarls traffic and increases pollution. There will be no more wrecks with my method than the "always stop" method. In fact, there may be fewer wrecks because in my system people are trying harder to analyze traffic flows in order to save themselves time.

    I don't know what makes you think that rolling through after looking all ways and being sure there is no traffic is more dangerous than stopping then looking. Like I said originally, sometimes we need to stop in order to spend more time analyzing the traffic situation and that's a reason to stop. But oftentimes that is totally unnecessary.

  14. #14
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    If an intersection does not require stopping to fully assess the conditions to ensure it is safe to proceed then the traffic control sign should be changed from a STOP to a YIELD.

  15. #15
    drive-by poster fetad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendall View Post
    The asphalt strip is not the crosswalk, it doesn't line up with the ramps at all.

    They/you have to redo the shoot with a properly marked intersection.
    Also, without being able to see that left hand corner, you don't know if there is something blocking the view which prompts the drivers to pull ahead. (the way the driver at 1:26 keeps inching ahead makes me think he's trying to see around something)

    Agree many drivers do not stop at signs, but without clear markings only "before your vehicle enters the intersection" applies.

    Ken.
    It looks like the asphalt strip leads right to the sidewalk/road transition on the left part of the screen.

    They should have done this shot with a clearly marked/painted crosswalk & poor sight lines to remove any excuses, but there are two intersections at every stop sign involving a sidewalk. When there are clear sight lines such as this video seems to indicate, it's socially acceptable to ignore the first intersection (the sidewalk) and approach the second intersection (the road).

    The problem is that most drivers seem to ignore the sidewalk and pull up to the intersecting road regardless of sight lines. That is running a stop sign.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    What a whiny video. Those motorists may not have been stopping per the law before the x-walk, but they stop far better than most cyclists going thru the same intersection would. To be less whiny shoot a video of motorist actually rolling thru intersections as they sometimes do.
    I agree.

    I would bet that the % of bicyclists who stop at stop signs at about 3%. I would bet that the % of motorists is much higher.

    The % of motorists who blow a stop sign without even slowing is nearly zero while for bicyclists is probably at least 50%.

    Now watch as the same bicyclists who refuse to stop at stop signs now try to tell me that motorists do the same things. BS

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    I agree. Most people just stop where they are safe from oncoming traffic and they can actually see what is going on.
    Last edited by Siu Blue Wind; 04-02-09 at 06:57 PM. Reason: advertising

  18. #18
    Senior Member degnaw's Avatar
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    I often find that stopping at a stop sign makes driving more dangerous in some situations; In a particular 4-way stop, if two drivers approach and one arrives slightly before the other driver, coming to a complete stop and counting S-T-O-P (as recommended by drivers' ed) is basically seen as yielding your right of way to the other driver.

    I don't typically stop at stop signs, nor do I typically even touch the brakes, but I make it clear that I look both directions and slow to a reasonable speed before proceeding.

  19. #19
    Senior Member StrangeWill's Avatar
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    Stops signs are inefficient rubbish infrastructure anyway.

  20. #20
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    FWIW my observations is that motorists turning right roll through stop signs/lights in a similar fashion as cyclists going straight. (That is to say it is the same risk assessment on traffic from the left, and for cyclists if there is traffic on the right they can hang out in a left turn lane (or in extreme cases the center stripe,) a car can't do that.) I'm not condoning ether action put I do see people as people.
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  21. #21
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    I think that in a car I can not see as well since I am in a cage. Bicyclists and motorcycles see around them better. As a pedestrian, I don't almost get hit very often by bicycles or motorcycles but cars, all the time. And they are heavy and dangerous. Yes, I stop at stop signs on my bike and have for 30 years but I don't necessarily put my foot down, only if there is other traffic, otherwise I may be going 1 mph. People in cars are looking for other cars and quite frequently forget to look hard for peds and bikes.

  22. #22
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    99 out of 100 intersections in New Orleans look like this:



    It is real simple. Stop at the red line so as not to block the sidewalk. Look down the sidewalk for kids on scooters, skates, bikes, wheelchairs, crutches, or chasing a dog or ball. Then, if the sidewalk is clear, proceed as best you can. YES, you probably will have to stop TWICE because parked cars on the cross street will certainly be blocking your view of crossing traffic approaching.

    No one in a motor vehicle, and I mean not one single person (besides me) stops at this type of stop sign properly. Trust me, I rollerblade all over the city for 17 years now and not one motorist has EVER stopped at a stop sign like this - they just roll up to the cross street and block the sidewalk. Did I say EVERY LAST SONSOFBEEAITCHES??!!!

    Go to Google Maps zip code 70124 and cruise around. You will see that every stop sign is placed like this. (You will also see a lot of lingering Katrina devastation)
    Last edited by JoeyBike; 03-21-09 at 08:31 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    The video is misleading. It counts as "failed" those cars that pull forward and stop at a reasonable point. Say what you want, but most drivers do not look for painted lines. They stop where they can see with a clear view.

    What you are seeing is the difference between theory and practice, between what is taught in driver's-ed and how things work in real life.
    They should. That's a crosswalk.

    It's my opinion that stop signs get little respect because they're horribly abused. The existence of 4-way stops is sad. If you need a 4 way stop you need a stop light. Otherwise, pick a direction that gets priority or use a round-a-bout.

    There are just way too many stop signs in many places and so drivers get sick of the completely unnecessary stops. They figure that if they come close to stopping few cops would bother to pull them over. They're probably right.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
    I agree.

    I would bet that the % of bicyclists who stop at stop signs at about 3%. I would bet that the % of motorists is much higher.

    The % of motorists who blow a stop sign without even slowing is nearly zero while for bicyclists is probably at least 50%.

    Now watch as the same bicyclists who refuse to stop at stop signs now try to tell me that motorists do the same things. BS
    But that's blowing at 15mph verse blowing at 35mph. Both are stupid but if the driver did it at 15mph you'd be giving him credit for slowing.

  25. #25
    Senior Member degnaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crhilton View Post
    The existence of 4-way stops is sad. If you need a 4 way stop you need a stop light. Otherwise, pick a direction that gets priority or use a round-a-bout.
    Nooooooooooooooooo...... I hate stop lights with a passion.

    If its an intersection of two semi-major roads, use a 4-way stop (or a roundabout if land is available)

    With "semi-major" meaning one car every 3-5 seconds or so. There are two 4-way stops on such roads near my house, and I can always get through within 10 seconds. With a stop light, that would rise to 30+ seconds 50% of the time. They're planning to replace these with stop lights, though, which I seriously resent.

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