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  1. #1
    Senior Member WPeabody's Avatar
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    Article about pedestrians vs. cyclists on the MUP

    http://www.ksbw.com/news/19071383/detail.html

    I doubt ticketing anyone will help matters any. Signs do no good because most people around here ignore them anyway. Even if they are at eye level.
    Then add the many intersections, rental bicycles, roller bladers, pedi-cars, strollers and Segways, and you have a good idea of why it's pointless to try to ride on this path.
    What do you call a cyclist who sells potpourri on the road? A pedaling petal-peddler.

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    Hmmm. How busy is the trail in question? Unless it is routinely filled with people, I don't see why pedestrians and cyclists can't share it. Of course, cyclists have to be careful when going around pedestrians to avoid crashing into them.

    If it WERE that busy, then maybe it's time it got widened with separate cycling and walking lanes.
    Same roads, same rights, same rules.
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  3. #3
    genec genec's Avatar
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    It always amuses me that cyclists can't seem to dodge pedestrians, yet expect motorists to dodge cyclists.

    If could all just get along...

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    PASSING on the LEFT!!!! Say it loud and say it often.

    What's the problem?

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    I avoid MUPs when they are busy, but I like them when they are not. I don't think it's fair for we cyclists to view them as high speed highways for bicycles. MUPs were never intended for that kind of riding.

  6. #6
    Senior Member David13's Avatar
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    I first saw this problem both in Manhattan Beach and Hermosa Beach, etc., 30 - 40 years ago?
    The big problem is direction. Beachgoers come out from the land, and walk into, on the bike path in front of the cyclist. Many times from blind approaches. That's why they are hard to avoid. The bicyclist usually has sense not to 'pop' out in front of the car.
    Then they may wander up and down the bike path a bit, with their back to the approaching bike.
    Turn left, turn right carrying a coffee, or a beer.
    I biked early in the morning, with great and utter caution, and particularly on weekends was off the bike by 9 or 10 a.m.
    Unless you can segregate the paths, with tickets, with signs, with fences and with a local culture that supports the idea, it doesn't work well.
    dc

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    Quote Originally Posted by David13 View Post
    I first saw this problem both in Manhattan Beach and Hermosa Beach, etc., 30 - 40 years ago?
    The big problem is direction. Beachgoers come out from the land, and walk into, on the bike path in front of the cyclist. Many times from blind approaches. That's why they are hard to avoid. The bicyclist usually has sense not to 'pop' out in front of the car.
    Then they may wander up and down the bike path a bit, with their back to the approaching bike.
    Turn left, turn right carrying a coffee, or a beer.
    I biked early in the morning, with great and utter caution, and particularly on weekends was off the bike by 9 or 10 a.m.
    Unless you can segregate the paths, with tickets, with signs, with fences and with a local culture that supports the idea, it doesn't work well.
    dc
    My complaint is soccer parents (M&F) walking across the MUP in a freaking daze after practice lets out. The little kids are actually on the ball, but these over-stuffed donut-heads will just sleep-walk their fat sasses right in front of a bike moving at 20 mph. Half of them do not even hear you when you shout out a warning.

    As they say in certain circles, when it comes to the gen public, it's "Consiousness None!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    It always amuses me that cyclists can't seem to dodge pedestrians, yet expect motorists to dodge cyclists.

    If could all just get along...
    cyclists are usually way more predictable than pedestrians.

    cyclists operate according to traffic laws most of the time, pedestrians are just all over the place.

    I use as little MUP as I can for commuting purposes, especially now that the weather is warming up.

  9. #9
    Senior Member WPeabody's Avatar
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    The MUP here in Monterey can get crazy on weekends, especially during tourist season. Even during off hours, like a weekday, it gets a bit challenging. And warning them doesn't always get a response. Or they ignore it or say something snarky in response. Very strange why people do that, there must be some kind of war going on that I don't know about...
    What do you call a cyclist who sells potpourri on the road? A pedaling petal-peddler.

  10. #10
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by o-dog View Post
    cyclists are usually way more predictable than pedestrians.

    cyclists operate according to traffic laws most of the time, pedestrians are just all over the place.

    I use as little MUP as I can for commuting purposes, especially now that the weather is warming up.
    All depends on your perspective... the teenagers on 14 inch wheel bikes hardly fit the "predictable" picture; neither do the red light running "lance wannabees," or messengers.

    You and I may be predicable... but how small of a percentage of the overall cycling population are we?

  11. #11
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WPeabody View Post
    I doubt ticketing anyone will help matters any.
    Of course not. Typical anti-cyclist bias will set in after two weeks, whereupon the LEO's assigned to patrol the path will start ticketing cyclists for various inane laws invented spontaneously by said LEO's.

    -Kurt

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    Quote Originally Posted by baron von trail View Post
    My complaint is soccer parents (M&F) walking across the MUP in a freaking daze after practice lets out. The little kids are actually on the ball, but these over-stuffed donut-heads will just sleep-walk their fat sasses right in front of a bike moving at 20 mph. Half of them do not even hear you when you shout out a warning.

    As they say in certain circles, when it comes to the gen public, it's "Consiousness None!"
    You're going 20 mph on a trail that has that sort of access and THEY are the donut-heads? Your post has to be tongue in cheek.

  13. #13
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    Good timing, I just happened to be on BF, debating the finer points of what I feel about a thief who would rob a guy sitting in a wheelchair. But, I digress...

    Yeah, I was using the 20 mph line as a visual, meaning that I think these people would walk out in front of a fast moving bike without giving it a moments notice. I almost believe that they'd walk right out in front of a train.

    When I ride through "soccer zone" I'm on the brake, running at speeds below 10 mph, and hollering warnings at the top of my lungs. They still heed me no nevermind. But, it's only the adults that I have a problem with. The kids are on it. They hear your warnings, and they stop to look before crossing.

  14. #14
    lube addict
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    I posted an article about this same path as featured in the news less than three months ago:

    Cyclists harassing pedestrians on local bike path?

    This beautiful 2-mile long coastal path, a former railroad, is heavily used by pedestrians, surreys, bikes, etc. traveling between adjoining tourist towns. The problem is that the southern half in Monterey is a relatively wide concrete MUP but northern half in Pacific Grove changes to a narrow, unpaved pedestrian path next to an equally narrow "Bikes Only" paved path with no physical separation whatsoever. I never bike through these sections midday expecting to go fast. At the problematic Pacific Grove end, at least there is an adjoining city street for speedier travel (though no marked bike lane). Otherwise, I expect to slow down and share for a few minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    All depends on your perspective... the teenagers on 14 inch wheel bikes hardly fit the "predictable" picture; neither do the red light running "lance wannabees," or messengers.

    You and I may be predicable... but how small of a percentage of the overall cycling population are we?
    yeah cyclists around here do some dumb stuff.

    I have still seen way more unpredictable behavior from peds than from cyclists.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Eclectus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WPeabody View Post
    The MUP here in Monterey can get crazy on weekends, especially during tourist season. Even during off hours, like a weekday, it gets a bit challenging. And warning them doesn't always get a response. Or they ignore it or say something snarky in response. Very strange why people do that, there must be some kind of war going on that I don't know about...
    you should be happy that you live in the Monterey Bay area. Consider the unfortunates who live in the Salinas Valley area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectus View Post
    you should be happy that you live in the Monterey Bay area. Consider the unfortunates who live in the Salinas Valley area.
    You should be happy to be in Cali...consider the unfortunates who live here in Ohio!

    BTW: Snow called for on Monday night, gotta love it.

  18. #18
    Senior Member WPeabody's Avatar
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    Chainstrainer, I missed seeing your article. My apologies! Not sure if the KSBW news website was reposting an old article or updating it.

    Have to say, if you are trying to get somewhere in particular on a bike in Monterey and PG, use the streets, and on those fine weekends, if you want to meander, sightsee, pause often and interact with interesting people, use the MUP, once you are south of Casa Verde street, anyway.
    What do you call a cyclist who sells potpourri on the road? A pedaling petal-peddler.

  19. #19
    lube addict
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    Quote Originally Posted by WPeabody View Post
    Chainstrainer, I missed seeing your article. My apologies! Not sure if the KSBW news website was reposting an old article or updating it...
    No apology necessary. The subject came up again because the Pacific Grove city council is now considering changing the ineffective ordinance. Anyway, we're lucky to have our 15-mile long bike path despite shortcomings along a small portion of it. I just hope it connects up with Santa Cruz someday. That would be awesome!

  20. #20
    Senior Member WPeabody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectus View Post
    you should be happy that you live in the Monterey Bay area. Consider the unfortunates who live in the Salinas Valley area.
    Actually I'm in between those areas. Marina. Yes, living here in this central CA coast weather has spoiled me, I'll admit it!
    What do you call a cyclist who sells potpourri on the road? A pedaling petal-peddler.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Eclectus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WPeabody View Post
    Actually I'm in between those areas. Marina. Yes, living here in this central CA coast weather has spoiled me, I'll admit it!
    A well-known salmon hangout in spring and summer.

  22. #22
    lube addict
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    Not to mention hang gliding hangout all year long. Now that is how to avoid pedestrians!

  23. #23
    Joyously Phred MnHillBilly's Avatar
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    Sounds like their problem was designating a seperate lane to begin with.

    The MUP's up here in the frozen north are only marked at intersections with a green bicycle sign, but anyone is free to use them to walk, skate, whatever, there's no special lane marked on the pavement itself. People are expected to yield and provide fair warning if they have to pass each other, and you're not allowed to go over a certain speed no matter what you're doing. If there's a crash, the fault is shared - pedestrians have fair warning that it's a multi-mode path that they're on.

    I guess I see more regulation of the lanes as causing more of a headache for people - folks don't want to have to babysit the path all day, people aren't going to and don't want to have to "think" about whether they're walking in the "correct" lane. Post signage every so often indicating that people can expect to see bicycles, period. Their folly if they ignore it, and the cyclist's folly if they ride at breakneck speed and don't allow for reaction time.
    "Took a whole lotta tr-y-in' jest ta get up that hill"

  24. #24
    Senior Member WPeabody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainstrainer View Post
    No apology necessary. The subject came up again because the Pacific Grove city council is now considering changing the ineffective ordinance. Anyway, we're lucky to have our 15-mile long bike path despite shortcomings along a small portion of it. I just hope it connects up with Santa Cruz someday. That would be awesome!
    Oh, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that come to fruition, too. Hopefully in the next decade or so.
    What do you call a cyclist who sells potpourri on the road? A pedaling petal-peddler.

  25. #25
    Randomhead
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    I saw a new one today, there was a couple driving their electric wheelchairs along the bike path blocking both lanes. At the speed they were going, it probably would have taken them minutes to clear one of the lanes. I was on a nearby road, so I didn't get to test the theory.

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