Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-14-09, 10:51 AM   #1
curtwally
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Road Rage against cyclists in mid Michigan

Boy do we need suggestions

The rage against cyclists is going the wrong direction. Its getting worse here in mid Michigan. In the span of 7 days two of our club rides have experienced road rage. In the first incident, on a virtual minimal traffic back road, a motorist passed the group and immediately put on the brakes to an almost stop. In the chaos the resulted 2 riders went down, but fortunately no major injuries but one bike was damaged beyond rideability. The motorist shouted something about "you cannot ride two abreast. Its the state law". We did not get a license plate number but did file a police report and have the car pretty well described.

In the second instance and again on a less traveled back road a motorist started laying on the horn about a 1/4 mile back, passed the group in a brush by (very close), stopped at a stop sign and started hollering at the group. The club members did not engage this person and kept going. Again we did not get a license, but in this case we should have been able to do so. But a decent car description was made.

How do we get road rage eliminated or at least minimized. We believe from what we have seen that things are getting worse. Is it the economy that is P------ ing people off or what? We have a very active club and are willing to meet with police, sheriff, community leaders and do what is necessary.

I just recently spent a week in the hill country of Texas and it is just a joy compared to here at home. Most drivers actually initiate a salutatory wave to you on the back roads. Maybe they are proud of Lance. I don't know but what a difference.

Suggestions needed for our club on this isssue.

Thanks, Curt
Tri City Cyclists- Midland Michigan
curtwally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 10:55 AM   #2
Itsjustb
Senior Member
 
Itsjustb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: Cannondale Synapse 5c, Scattante XRL
Posts: 991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You know things are bad when the attitude towards cyclists is bad compared to Texas.
Itsjustb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 11:18 AM   #3
Ajenkins
Dogs like me.
 
Ajenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mid-Michigan? Are you talking, like, the home of the self-destructing American Auto Industry?

Of course motorists hate you -- those damn cyclists are part of the problem! If you weren't riding that damn bicycle, you'd be in a car, which you purchased, and thus the motorist, or his wife, or brother-in-law, or whoever, wouldn't be out of a job. In fact, you're the entire reason the economy is in the hole, and you damn well deserve to be run off the road. On top of everything else, you're probably one of those communists, too.

I think the only thing to do is keep a camera and cellphone handy and wait for the dinosaurs to die off.
Ajenkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 11:38 AM   #4
Boston Commuter
What, me hurry?
 
Boston Commuter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Bikes: Rivendell Atlantis, 1987 Peugeot Iseran mixte
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.
Boston Commuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 11:47 AM   #5
Itsjustb
Senior Member
 
Itsjustb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: Cannondale Synapse 5c, Scattante XRL
Posts: 991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtwally View Post
...The motorist shouted something about "you cannot ride two abreast. Its the state law".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Commuter View Post
MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.
Apparently the motorist in the OP was incorrect; cyclists may ride 2 abreast. They may not ride more than 2 abreast.

Since (apparently) you were obeying the law but the driver didn't know what the law said, let's approach this the other way. Does your area have a bicycle advisory committee to local government? If so, have your club take this issue to the local government and ask for actions--PSAs, changes to driver's licensing to require knowledge of laws concerning bicycles, etc.
Itsjustb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 11:59 AM   #6
fordfasterr
One speed: FAST !
 
fordfasterr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ft. Lauderdale FL
Bikes: Ebay Bikes... =)
Posts: 3,375
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Commuter View Post
MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.
The same statute was incorrectly interpreted by a police officer to me in person....

She was as wrong as you are...

You cannot ride "MORE THAN 2" ...

No more than 2 is still more than 1.... right?
fordfasterr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 12:06 PM   #7
rabidchicken
MOLON LABE
 
rabidchicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southwest Florida
Bikes: Gary Fisher Tassajara, Trek 1500, Specialized 415
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As a cyclist myself I get annoyed when I see a group of roadies (25+) taking up an entire lane of a two-lane highway in a no-passing zone. I haven't resorted to road rage since it isn't worth it, but it sure as hell annoys the piss out of me.
rabidchicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 12:26 PM   #8
Speedo
Senior Member
 
Speedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston Area
Bikes: Univega Gran Turismo, Guerciotti, Bridgestone MB2, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Serotta Ti
Posts: 1,998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There is no excuse for motorists behaving in ways to intentionally endanger cyclists. But if you are interested in minimizing or eliminating road rage, give a thought to how your group is riding on the road. You really didn't say much about that.

In Massachusetts, until recently cyclists were required to ride single file unless passing. The law has been changed so that riding two abreast is allowed. On low traffic back roads, some of the local racing clubs seem to like to take up the entire road. Maybe 5, 6 or 7 abreast. This is with a group of 50-100 cyclists. I've seen oncoming traffic have to come to a complete stop while the peloton squeezes over to the right side of the road. I find that kind of behavior both unsafe and obnoxious.

If your group is not monopolizing the road then those drivers are just jerks. If your group is monopolizing the road then they are still jerks (for intentionally endangering you), but they might have not acted out their jerkiness if they hadn't been provoked.

Speedo
Speedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 12:40 PM   #9
UnsafeAlpine
Domestic Domestique
 
UnsafeAlpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Brand New Old Catamount! Schwinn Homegrown, Specialized FSR, Salsa Vaya, Salsa Chile Con Crosso
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidchicken View Post
As a cyclist myself I get annoyed when I see a group of roadies (25+) taking up an entire lane of a two-lane highway in a no-passing zone. I haven't resorted to road rage since it isn't worth it, but it sure as hell annoys the piss out of me.
Why? It's a no passing zone. You think you can pass a long string of single file roadies in a no passing zone safely?

This is one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.
UnsafeAlpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 12:54 PM   #10
fetad
drive-by poster
 
fetad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Bikes: Yes(s)
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidchicken View Post
As a cyclist myself I get annoyed when I see a group of roadies (25+) taking up an entire lane of a two-lane highway in a no-passing zone. I haven't resorted to road rage since it isn't worth it, but it sure as hell annoys the piss out of me.
Given the option of passing 25+ cyclists riding two abreast vs passing 25+ cyclists riding single file I'll choose the two abreast group. The less time I spend in the left lane the better, you know?

I don't think people realize that cyclists are doing them a favor by effectively shortening the group. 3 abreast would make it even easier.
fetad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 12:57 PM   #11
juggleaddict
Senior Member
 
juggleaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: LHT
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsafeAlpine View Post
You think you can pass a long string of single file roadies in a no passing zone safely?
I agree. Even in a section of road where it's safe to pass, it is easier to pass the group if they are NOT riding single file. If the cyclist were in a big line, it would be like trying to pass a semi-truck. Apparently people think that it makes it "safer" if they don't have to get over as far to the left, when in fact, they should ALWAYS give you that room. This tells me that people think that they can squeeze between an oncoming car and a bicycle if they had to. I'm not sure where that mentality comes from, but it makes it an even more dangerous situation if the driver approaches a line of bikes and tries to pass. I had a city bus try to pull that crap around a blind curve, and ran me into a ditch because he had to swerve back over and nearly hit me to avoid the oncoming car.
juggleaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 01:16 PM   #12
-=(8)=-
♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯
 
-=(8)=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 40205 'ViLLeBiLLie
Bikes: Sngl Spd's, 70's- 80's vintage, D-tube Folder
Posts: 7,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We have met the enemy, and it is us.
Until roadies learn "share the road", stop sign etiquette, etc we can
always expect this.
__________________
-ADVOCACY-☜ Radical VC = Car people on bikes. Just say "NO"

Last edited by -=(8)=-; 04-14-09 at 01:33 PM.
-=(8)=- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 01:26 PM   #13
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Commuter View Post
MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.
May I humbly suggest that you learn how to read brefore you make high handed judgments? Also you shhould know that the section of the Michigan Vehicle Code that you quoted is no longer in effect, although riding two abreast is still permitted in Michigan.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"

Last edited by Roody; 04-14-09 at 01:39 PM.
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 01:32 PM   #14
Ka_Jun
Who farted?
 
Ka_Jun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '06 K2 Zed 3.0, '09 Novara Buzz V
Posts: 1,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajenkins View Post
Mid-Michigan? Are you talking, like, the home of the self-destructing American Auto Industry?

Of course motorists hate you -- those damn cyclists are part of the problem! If you weren't riding that damn bicycle, you'd be in a car, which you purchased, and thus the motorist, or his wife, or brother-in-law, or whoever, wouldn't be out of a job. In fact, you're the entire reason the economy is in the hole, and you damn well deserve to be run off the road. On top of everything else, you're probably one of those communists, too.

I think the only thing to do is keep a camera and cellphone handy and wait for the dinosaurs to die off.
Don't joke. Asian-Americans are well aware of the type of mentality you describe.
Ka_Jun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 01:35 PM   #15
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtwally View Post
Boy do we need suggestions

The rage against cyclists is going the wrong direction. Its getting worse here in mid Michigan. In the span of 7 days two of our club rides have experienced road rage. In the first incident, on a virtual minimal traffic back road, a motorist passed the group and immediately put on the brakes to an almost stop. In the chaos the resulted 2 riders went down, but fortunately no major injuries but one bike was damaged beyond rideability. The motorist shouted something about "you cannot ride two abreast. Its the state law". We did not get a license plate number but did file a police report and have the car pretty well described.

In the second instance and again on a less traveled back road a motorist started laying on the horn about a 1/4 mile back, passed the group in a brush by (very close), stopped at a stop sign and started hollering at the group. The club members did not engage this person and kept going. Again we did not get a license, but in this case we should have been able to do so. But a decent car description was made.

How do we get road rage eliminated or at least minimized. We believe from what we have seen that things are getting worse. Is it the economy that is P------ ing people off or what? We have a very active club and are willing to meet with police, sheriff, community leaders and do what is necessary.

I just recently spent a week in the hill country of Texas and it is just a joy compared to here at home. Most drivers actually initiate a salutatory wave to you on the back roads. Maybe they are proud of Lance. I don't know but what a difference.

Suggestions needed for our club on this isssue.

Thanks, Curt
Tri City Cyclists- Midland Michigan
I haven't noticed a change in cager attitudes in mid-Michigan. But I do a different type of riding than you do. I'm mostly in the city, riding alone, and wearing more "regular" clothes. (I am NOT by any means implying that it's OK for drivers to hate on, harrass or endanger club riders.)

I sometimes think that I see a worsening of civil behavior in general around here. Unemployment and economic insecurity seem to be weighing on people's minds. I haven't seen this on the roads yet, but I'm not surprised if you are.

During a heat wave, my mother used to say something like, "People are more irritable in this weather, so we need to make a special effort to be kinder to others. If we all work together, we'll get through this a lot easier." I wish more people would adopt this philosophy in this economic "heat wave."
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 01:38 PM   #16
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
This tragic incident happened a few blocks from where I was living at the time. There has been no repeat in almost 30 years. Maybe people should start putting it past them.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 02:12 PM   #17
John C. Ratliff
Senior Member
 
John C. Ratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Bikes: Rans Stratus, Trek 1420, Rivendell Rambouillet
Posts: 1,906
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
KA_Jun,

Thank you for providing that link. Mine is a mixed-race family (Chinese-Caucasian), and I had not heard of the Vincent Chin murder. Maybe it is because we were in the rural area of Oregon. It is not an enjoyable piece to read, but very educational.

John
John C. Ratliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 02:23 PM   #18
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 11,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Commuter View Post
MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.
Pretty bad when a cyclist quotes cycling law and cannot even understand it.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 02:41 PM   #19
rabidchicken
MOLON LABE
 
rabidchicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southwest Florida
Bikes: Gary Fisher Tassajara, Trek 1500, Specialized 415
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsafeAlpine View Post
Why? It's a no passing zone. You think you can pass a long string of single file roadies in a no passing zone safely?

This is one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.
If they were all in the bike lane I would have no problem passing them. Are you not allowed to pass cyclists in a bike lane when there is a double yellow?
rabidchicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 02:44 PM   #20
UnsafeAlpine
Domestic Domestique
 
UnsafeAlpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Brand New Old Catamount! Schwinn Homegrown, Specialized FSR, Salsa Vaya, Salsa Chile Con Crosso
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidchicken View Post
If they were all in the bike lane I would have no problem passing them. Are you not allowed to pass cyclists in a bike lane when there is a double yellow?
It has to be a bike lane, not just the white edge line.
UnsafeAlpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 02:55 PM   #21
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 11,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidchicken View Post
If they were all in the bike lane I would have no problem passing them. Are you not allowed to pass cyclists in a bike lane when there is a double yellow?
Sounds like another motorist who just happens to also own a bicycle.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 06:24 PM   #22
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I guess people don't think a car fits into the opposing lane. I wonder what they do when they are going the other way?


As far as the OP goes, you need to emphasize the importance of memorizing the plate. I my memory is no better than any other person's memory, but I have always managed to memorize the plate. Read it a number of times, and continue to repeat it to yourself. I don't use mnemonics, but it helps some people.

Last edited by unterhausen; 04-14-09 at 09:00 PM.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 06:51 PM   #23
degnaw
Senior Member
 
degnaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bellevue, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I guess people don't think a car fits into the opposing lane. I wonder what they do when they are going the other way?
When I prepare for left turns on two lane roads, nowhere near the yellow line, I can clearly see people on the other side moving towards the white line and sometimes onto the (1 inch wide) shoulder. There are also extremely narrow roads in my area where opposing SUVs regularly pass at a relative speed of 80mph with 6" or less between mirrors (the lane being about 2 feet wider than the average midsize car).

Point being, people by nature give way more room to bikes than to cars, and a bike anywhere near the yellow line would likely make people freak.

Interestingly, this seems to only be applicable on high speed rural roads; I lane split in the center of local/urban roads regularly, with no explicit reaction from drivers.
degnaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 07:01 PM   #24
nelson249
"Per Ardua ad Surly"
 
nelson249's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Bikes: Bianchi Specialissima, Mongoose Hilltopper ATB, Surly Cross-Check, Norco City Glide
Posts: 1,416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I remember the Vincent Chin case. I was in grade school growing up 40 miles south east of Detriot (on the igloo side). The attitudes described here also apply to Windsor across the river. There have been incidents along Riverside Drive as car drivers have been irked by the presence of cyclists. The local media several years ago was all bent out of shape because cyclists dared to use "their" roads.
nelson249 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-09, 07:06 PM   #25
JinbaIttai
P7 Fanboy
 
JinbaIttai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Crippled Burrick Inn
Bikes:
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I suggest that your club pools money to together for a decent helmet camera and then finds a lawyer that will represent the club beforehand, so when it happens again and you have it on video, you have a strong case.
JinbaIttai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:34 AM.