Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-16-09, 08:49 PM   #1
BigAlMN
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Traffic Safety Classes

Has anyone considered the value of doing training classes for proper skills for riding in traffic?

Admittedly, even the amateur recreational rider believes he/she has it altogether. But if we all participated in some formal training and also had our networks of other riders going through a similar training agenda - a couple half days with skills assessment and classroom training; would we all not become more responsible riders.

Looking forward to hearing some opinions on this.

I come from a background as an educator and also know of some very good training sessions available from the League of American Bicyclists. So, yes, I do have an existing predisposition to an answer to my question. I am interested in seeing how much pro and con I hear back from this posting.
BigAlMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-09, 08:50 PM   #2
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I think it would be worth it for most people.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-09, 09:53 PM   #3
crhilton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bikes: '07 Trek 1500, '08 Surly Cross Check, '09 Masi Speciale Sprint custom build
Posts: 4,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Probably a decent idea. I hate to sound like I know it all, but I have spent a fair bit of time reading about cycling safely. Not to say I wouldn't learn anything but I'd be afraid I'd mostly just hear things I already know. So, hopefully it'd be cheap .

I'd be willing to take the classes in order to later teach them. I haven't really noticed anything like that in my area though.
crhilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-09, 03:20 AM   #4
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAlMN View Post
Has anyone considered the value of doing training classes for proper skills for riding in traffic?
Amazing that you have been a member of BFs since Nov 2004, and are asking this question.

Try searching LCI.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-09, 08:02 AM   #5
Pscyclepath
LCI #1853
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scott. Arkansas
Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2, Fisher Caliber 29er, Orbea Onix
Posts: 663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Already there... in fact the only nationally-recognized bike education program, "Smart Cycling":

http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/

Currently there's around 1200 active League Cycling Instructors out there... currently at least one in every state except North Dakota, for some reason.

Smart Cycling is presented in several blocks to particular audiences:

-- Traffic Skills 101 (9 hours): Covers the basics of bicycle selection, fit, maintenance, traffic rules and how bicycles fit in the flow of traffic, crash prevention & avoidance. About 4 hours in the classroom, and another 4+ hours actually on the bike learning handing, avoidance drills, and riding in traffic. This is the core course in vehicular cycling.

-- Traffic Skills 201 (12 hours): Covers more complex traffic situations, goes into more detail on bike maintenance and repair, fitness and distance riding, riding in all types of weather and road conditions.

-- Commuting (3 hours): Expands on Traffic Skills 101 to address bike commuting and utility riding -- how to get started commuting, the logistics of riding back and forth to work, route selection and planning, carrying cargo on your bike, riding at night and in adverse conditions. 2 hours classroom; 1 hour on the bike (night ride).

-- Cycling Skills for Parents: (1-2 hours) The basics of getting your children interested in and involved in cycling, the actual differences between children and adults with respect to bikes, and how to help your child learn to ride.

-- Cycling Skills For Children: (2-3 hours) A more focused "bike rodeo" format aimed at teaching critical riding and safety skills.

-- Safe Routes to School (formerly "Kids II"): (7 hours). The Traffic Skills 101 course scaled for children and young teen-agers.

-- Share The Road: (1-3 hours) Motorist/cyclist education aimed at reducing conflict and increasing understanding between all roadway users.

Tom

Last edited by Pscyclepath; 04-17-09 at 08:36 AM.
Pscyclepath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-09, 01:48 PM   #6
BigAlMN
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
LCI - yes; that is what I was referring to

I was asking to get an impartial commentary from readers of BF about that training.

I am a recently certified LCI, LCI #2173.

Getting these classes is rather difficult because we do feel that we know how to ride and can do so properly.

In MN, we are attempting to build a larger base of LCIs; even teaching others.

So noone has disagreed that it is worthwhile. Just need to figure out how to "Market" it and authenticate its time-value
BigAlMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-09, 02:36 PM   #7
crhilton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bikes: '07 Trek 1500, '08 Surly Cross Check, '09 Masi Speciale Sprint custom build
Posts: 4,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAlMN View Post
I was asking to get an impartial commentary from readers of BF about that training.

I am a recently certified LCI, LCI #2173.

Getting these classes is rather difficult because we do feel that we know how to ride and can do so properly.

In MN, we are attempting to build a larger base of LCIs; even teaching others.

So noone has disagreed that it is worthwhile. Just need to figure out how to "Market" it and authenticate its time-value
LCI means you're able to teach cycling safety courses by the state of MN?
crhilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-09, 08:28 PM   #8
BigAlMN
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
LCI - League Certified Instructor

The League refers to the League of American Bicyclists - a national organization. It does not restrict anyone to a specific state.

But shorter answer, there are 11 LCIs in MN currently with a goal of 75 by the end of 2010. It is our intention to improve cyclist safety, awareness, and proficiency. The intended outcome will be swelling of the numbers of cyclists and improved respect between the motorized and non-motorized vehicles on the roads.

But still curious what needs to be provided so that experienced and qualified cyclists would be drawn to 9 hour training sessions.

Hope to hear some of that from this group.

Contirubutions and comments are very welcomed by me.
BigAlMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-09, 09:41 PM   #9
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You're going to find it highly unlikely to interest even the most minute fraction of a percent of minnesotan bicyclists to your classes.

you think there's going to be a swelling in the numbers of bicyclists from your classes?

you're thinking that getting already experienced bicyclists into a class will swell the numbers of bicyclists in your state?

clearly your logic on this hasn't been well thought out...


maybe LCI's should make it a goal to teach all the motorists a nine hour class on bicycling or the police departments and local city councils if you want to influence cycling. you'd get a loud and vocal clamor for better street integrated facilities for bicycling and class 1 bikeways in a heartbeat is my prediction....
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-09, 09:45 PM   #10
waldowales
Old Fogy
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Murray, Utah
Bikes:
Posts: 1,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm afraid you're preaching to the choir here. The ones in the most need of training are the ones who already think they know it all, and won't attend. The ones least in need of more training are the ones who are going to be most interested.
I hope I'm wrong!
waldowales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-09, 08:50 AM   #11
crhilton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bikes: '07 Trek 1500, '08 Surly Cross Check, '09 Masi Speciale Sprint custom build
Posts: 4,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAlMN View Post
The League refers to the League of American Bicyclists - a national organization. It does not restrict anyone to a specific state.

But shorter answer, there are 11 LCIs in MN currently with a goal of 75 by the end of 2010. It is our intention to improve cyclist safety, awareness, and proficiency. The intended outcome will be swelling of the numbers of cyclists and improved respect between the motorized and non-motorized vehicles on the roads.

But still curious what needs to be provided so that experienced and qualified cyclists would be drawn to 9 hour training sessions.

Hope to hear some of that from this group.

Contirubutions and comments are very welcomed by me.
I would be attracted if there were classes to teach using that training. If the classes had waiting lists of beginner cyclists.

I'm guessing most of us get around fine and have more interest in teaching others than learning someone else's version of what we do to be a safer rider. We'd be excited by the potential of pulling new riders in.
crhilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-09, 09:30 AM   #12
uke
it's easy if you let it.
 
uke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: indoors and out.
Bikes:
Posts: 4,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
maybe LCI's should make it a goal to teach all the motorists a nine hour class on bicycling or the police departments and local city councils if you want to influence cycling. you'd get a loud and vocal clamor for better street integrated facilities for bicycling and class 1 bikeways in a heartbeat is my prediction....
Indeed.
uke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-09, 11:46 AM   #13
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 24,103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAlMN View Post
But shorter answer, there are 11 LCIs in MN currently with a goal of 75 by the end of 2010. It is our intention to improve cyclist safety, awareness, and proficiency. The intended outcome will be swelling of the numbers of cyclists and improved respect between the motorized and non-motorized vehicles on the roads.

But still curious what needs to be provided so that experienced and qualified cyclists would be drawn to 9 hour training sessions.

Hope to hear some of that from this group.

Contirubutions and comments are very welcomed by me.
Are the current 11 LCI's in MN being overwhelmed with requests for overcrowded classes? If not, I suggest you and other promoters of "League Training" figure out a means of creating a larger demand for the product before trying to increase the supply of providers by 700%.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-09, 11:55 AM   #14
pacificaslim
Surf Bum
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pacifica, CA
Bikes: Lapierre Pulsium 500 FdJ, Ritchey breakaway cyclocross, vintage trek mtb.
Posts: 2,176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
First cycling is made out to be something dangerous that requires us to wear helmets, and now it's something that we have to go to classes to learn how to do safely?

The idea of bikes as normal, everyday transportation in the USA is certainly doomed. And it's the "advocates," that are responsible.
pacificaslim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-09, 11:58 AM   #15
10 Wheels
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Bikes: 2010 Expedition, 03 GTO
Posts: 30,108
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 395 Post(s)
[QUOTE

The idea of bikes as normal, everyday transportation in the USA is certainly doomed. And it's the "advocates," that are responsible.[/QUOTE]

You give up to quick.
Keep riding.
__________________
[SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI
10 Wheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-09, 09:48 PM   #16
BigAlMN
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Search LCI

But the returns are not specific to the inquiry.

I had attempted that to see if there had been similar queries in the past. I never like recreating any wheels.

But thanks for the suggestion.

This biking safety thing for me has taken on a bigger part of my interest in the past 12 months. The previous years of my BF readership has been more for biking alternatives and technical discussions.

This whole thread was ignored by me until recently now. Shame on me.
BigAlMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-09, 10:00 PM   #17
BigAlMN
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Glad I could add to your hillarity for a moment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
You're going to find it highly unlikely to interest even the most minute fraction of a percent of minnesotan bicyclists to your classes.

you think there's going to be a swelling in the numbers of bicyclists from your classes?

you're thinking that getting already experienced bicyclists into a class will swell the numbers of bicyclists in your state?

clearly your logic on this hasn't been well thought out...


maybe LCI's should make it a goal to teach all the motorists a nine hour class on bicycling or the police departments and local city councils if you want to influence cycling. you'd get a loud and vocal clamor for better street integrated facilities for bicycling and class 1 bikeways in a heartbeat is my prediction....
As a part of our agenda, we do reach out to our Departments of Transportation, the Traffic Safety councils, the transportation agencies. In MN, we are seeing an increase in the bicycling commuter sector due to advocacy like this. Our transportation agencies are encouraging it. The MNDoT has been phenomenal with their :Share the Road: campaign.

Nay sayers are to be expected, including from within our own cult of bikers. No problem from me for this response. Read a current drivers manual, you will find that they are now discussing the rights of the cyclist on the road also. That did not get there without the advocacy of the League of American Bicyclists and the related lobbying that needs to be done.

So I concur with a large portion of your reply; we are working that route also.

But if all of us experienced cyclist would train other cyclist to be safer cyclist; then the message and the transportation style would not be so foreign so that the motorist would become less a hazard.

Try seeing it as a campaign and a win-win proposition; just my Sunday evening preaching to the choir.
BigAlMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-09, 10:04 PM   #18
BigAlMN
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No way

Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Are the current 11 LCI's in MN being overwhelmed with requests for overcrowded classes? If not, I suggest you and other promoters of "League Training" figure out a means of creating a larger demand for the product before trying to increase the supply of providers by 700%.
But we are attempting to create an interest in Traffic Skills classes throughout the state. One of the expected outcomes from our current eight new classes scheduled will be at least another 16 - 20 candidate for LCI trainers.

And again, we are wanting to find ways to encourage cyclist to train other cyclists.

Our goal may be high; but at least we are not shoot for complacency.
BigAlMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-09, 10:20 PM   #19
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
it's like a pyramid scheme, isn't it?

id suggest foregoing trying to train other cyclists, train the rest of your states citizens about bicycling.

what if there was no money in it for you or the other trainers? volunteer to train the local police departments, and volunteer to train at universities. no money to be made, just your love of the gospel of the wheel...

I'd suggest free, bike 101 classes once a month at every grange hall in the state.

I STILL think you'd have greater effect on cycling in Minnesota if you trained city councils and non-cyclists about bicycling, there'd be money tossed down, hoops created and rules changed to favor the mixed-infrastructuralist approach.

Last edited by Bekologist; 04-19-09 at 10:26 PM.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 02:01 AM   #20
CommuterRun
Conservative Hippie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wakulla Co. FL
Bikes:
Posts: 4,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would be interested in these classes if they were offered in this area, even though I was told years ago by an LCI that I don't need the classes. I ride using the same techniques that the LAB prescribes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
...maybe LCI's should make it a goal to teach all the motorists a nine hour class on bicycling or the police departments and local city councils if you want to influence cycling. you'd get a loud and vocal clamor for better street integrated facilities for bicycling and class 1 bikeways in a heartbeat is my prediction....
The LAB has been offering these classes to motorists and law enforcement for years.
CommuterRun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 07:56 AM   #21
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I suggest, if they want to improve the lot for bicycling in Minnessota, that they make it a goal to teach ALL the motorists and police departments, not just offer them classes.

like, lobby to include bike training as mandatory training for all police officers in their state.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:27 AM.