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  1. #1
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    My Red Light Running Tutorial Vid got reviewd in Boston.

    The Boston Bicycle Transportation Examiner reviewed my Red Light Running Tutorial vid and was much kinder, no, actually found MERIT in the video. Better treatment than I get from most of the A.H.s around here.

    Here is the LINK. Eat it.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  2. #2
    ---- buzzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    The Boston Bicycle Transportation Examiner reviewed my Red Light Running Tutorial vid and was much kinder, no, actually found MERIT in the video. Better treatment than I get from most of the A.H.s around here.

    Here is the LINK. Eat it.

    cool review. makes me happy to be from Boston. I wish more of us were so open minded. thanks for the link.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    How far ahead do you normally start tracking traffic? 3-4 blocks?

  4. #4
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    the reviewer finishes up with

    "Oh, and don't run red lights."
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  5. #5
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crhilton View Post
    How far ahead do you normally start tracking traffic? 3-4 blocks?
    Pretty much one block at a time. I might look ahead into the second block. Things change so fast that looking far ahead is a waste of time. What I "see" is probably comparable to a football QB. I am looking up the field for openings but at the same time seeing what is happening very close by all at once. It's hard to explain as I don't really understand it myself and the helmet cam does not tell the story of what my eyes are actually doing.

    The only advice I could give someone wanting to try that kind of riding would be to ride sober and focus on the "now". If you can't keep extraneous thoughts out of your head, try again another day.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  6. #6
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Joey, that type of riding is definitely not my cup of tea. Even if I did that type of riding, I couldn't get away with it for very long since our town is too small, and just about everyone knows each other. At our last local cycling forum, the city, county, and state LEO's that were present stated that the would aggresively ticket redlight running cyclists as they would motorists.

    At $275 just for the first pop, I would most definitely find other uses for that money other than lining the pockets of our city fathers even further.

  7. #7
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Even if I did that type of riding, I couldn't get away with it for very long since our town is too small, and just about everyone knows each other.
    I would suspect that few US cities lend themselves to running red lights without regard for getting a ticket. Even large cities like Denver and New York wage war against cyclists. New Orleans is more like a self-cleaning oven. Cops here tend to let things run their course until Darwin strikes.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  8. #8
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    I would suspect that few US cities lend themselves to running red lights without regard for getting a ticket. Even large cities like Denver and New York wage war against cyclists. New Orleans is more like a self-cleaning oven. Cops here tend to let things run their course until Darwin strikes.
    Our LEO's probably would take a blind eye as well, but being that our city was ranked #1 out of 100 cities our size in our state for vehicliar/bicycle/ped deaths and accidents (currently #2), all sorts of monies/grants were made available for traffic enforcement.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    Pretty much one block at a time. I might look ahead into the second block. Things change so fast that looking far ahead is a waste of time. What I "see" is probably comparable to a football QB. I am looking up the field for openings but at the same time seeing what is happening very close by all at once. It's hard to explain as I don't really understand it myself and the helmet cam does not tell the story of what my eyes are actually doing.

    The only advice I could give someone wanting to try that kind of riding would be to ride sober and focus on the "now". If you can't keep extraneous thoughts out of your head, try again another day.
    Oh I have no interest in trying. I prefer cautious. I'm just curious what goes on in your brain when you do it. In the video you seemed to, at least occasionally, identify stuff 2 blocks ahead and I wondered how far you were starting.

    I will look a couple blocks ahead for the status of the lights to see if I should speed up or relax because it's gonna turn anyway.

  10. #10
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
    cool review. makes me happy to be from Boston. I wish more of us were so open minded. thanks for the link.
    What else would you expect from the state that gave us Dropkick Murphy's !
    Joeybike is my advocacy superhero

  11. #11
    Senior Member Speedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    the reviewer finishes up with

    "Oh, and don't run red lights."
    And the reviewer started up with "It's a bad idea".

    Speedo

  12. #12
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    Reviewer have to cover his ass.

    Joey style of riding makes perfect sense for the conditions he's riding in. He doesnt pretend to be a car or a pedestrian, he knows exactly what he is driving, he knows his vehicle strength and weaknesses, he knows his terrain and his 'enemies', and he wages war in accordance to his advantages. I take some of Joey advice into my riding style (though honestly I lack the riding skills to ride like Joey) and I find myself a lot safer then when I was pretending to be a car.

  13. #13
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Works fine in low speed fairly low density city grid traffic.

    It would work in my downtown (and I know I have done the same when younger, more nimble, and faster)

    Won't work at all on the typical 50+ MPH multi-laned "urban freeways" (arterial roads) we have outside of downtown... except perhaps during well off peak traffic hours. (yes, at times even those roads can be near empty) At commuting times however, steady high speed traffic makes this sort of red light running impossible around here.

  14. #14
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    I have a problem with what the video's author seems to be advocating. If I demand a right to the lane and that motorized vehicles respect my right to the lane and treat me as anther vehicle don't I then have the responsibility to adhere to the same rules that I want the cars to obey.

  15. #15
    L T X B O M P F A N S R apricissimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve0257 View Post
    I have a problem with what the video's author seems to be advocating. If I demand a right to the lane and that motorized vehicles respect my right to the lane and treat me as anther vehicle don't I then have the responsibility to adhere to the same rules that I want the cars to obey.
    But bikes and cars are very different things. It doesn't make sense to have one set of rules for both.

  16. #16
    Senior Member StrangeWill's Avatar
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    I dunno I do this at work all the time in my car, visualizing how many times I could easily make it across red lights safely.

    But you know, acknowledging that I'm breaking a law and all I don't do it.

    If red was yield though the roads would be heaven for me.

    Also I do see how much easier it is to do this in city streets where cars seem so sluggish, around almost anywhere else you'd need to be aware that someone is going to come blowing through at 45 mph one time. I also do it multiple blocks up being as iffy cycles can make me change my route.

    TBH: If you don't so much as disrupt the flow of traffic, you're fine, if someone so much as touches their brakes, you fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    But bikes and cars are very different things. It doesn't make sense to have one set of rules for both.
    Which that argument immediately put bikes in the bike lane only. If it's a vehicle, treat it as such, if not, bike lane.
    Last edited by StrangeWill; 04-18-09 at 03:11 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Jim from Boston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gascostalot View Post
    Reviewer have to cover his ass.

    Joey style of riding makes perfect sense for the conditions he's riding in. He doesnt pretend to be a car or a pedestrian, he knows exactly what he is driving, he knows his vehicle strength and weaknesses, he knows his terrain and his 'enemies', and he wages war in accordance to his advantages. I take some of Joey advice into my riding style (though honestly I lack the riding skills to ride like Joey) and I find myself a lot safer then when I was pretending to be a car.
    I like that phrase "when I was pretending to be a car." Occasionally when I am riding I have thought of myself as an amphibian--I can behave (responsibly) as a car or a pedestrian depending on the situation. We have a talk show host in Boston and that behavior really irks him. When I send him an E-mail, I refer to myself as his "Number One Fan among Boston's Bicycle Commuters."

  18. #18
    L T X B O M P F A N S R apricissimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeWill View Post
    Which that argument immediately put bikes in the bike lane only. If it's a vehicle, treat it as such, if not, bike lane.
    That doesn't follow at all. The question remains, why should all vehicles have to abide by the same set of rules when they have vastly different sets of capabilities and limitations? Simply classifying them all as "vehicles" doesn't mean they are at all similar.

  19. #19
    ---- buzzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve0257 View Post
    I have a problem with what the video's author seems to be advocating. If I demand a right to the lane and that motorized vehicles respect my right to the lane and treat me as anther vehicle don't I then have the responsibility to adhere to the same rules that I want the cars to obey.

    What you're saying certainly makes sense from the auto drivers perspective and given that our transportation system is "autocentric" cyclists are pretty much resigned to accept this status quo or ride like an outlaw (ie. Joeybike et al).

    But the reality that is often ignored is that a cyclist is a human powered vehicle and really is subject to other parameters that the auto is not. Therefore logically we really should treat most traffic lights differently, stop signs differently, lane use differently and even, occasionally find ourselves on sidewalks and pathways inaccessible to the auto. This POV is, unfortunately, not terribly "political" and would probably go over like a lead balloon with the general public and even among some cyclists but it's far more realistic and pragmatic than all of us adhering to the same set of rules.

  20. #20
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    Thanks for pissing off more drivers op. You should give them all the finger as you run through intersections.

  21. #21
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sneekyjesus View Post
    Thanks for pissing off more drivers op. You should give them all the finger as you run through intersections.
    No one is pissed off that I am aware of. At least, no one is blowing their horn or anything. In my town, my style really is not an issue.

    Now, if you want mad motorists here, stop at the light IN FRONT of them! They will be blowing horns before the light turns green.

    My riding style is very polite. I do my best to stay out of their way.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  22. #22
    Selfish bitter clinger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    No one is pissed off that I am aware of. At least, no one is blowing their horn or anything. In my town, my style really is not an issue.

    Now, if you want mad motorists here, stop at the light IN FRONT of them! They will be blowing horns before the light turns green.

    My riding style is very polite. I do my best to stay out of their way.
    That's it Joey. Stay out of their way. I'm in Baton Rouge and no car comes to a complete stop at a stop sign here. If I was to pretend to be the ambassador of cycling and stop at all signs and signals, I'd pi$$ off a lot of drivers. They'd probably call the cops on me for that instead of cruising on through.

    I have been hassled by the cops for taking the lane, but that lasted about a week and went away when I didn't.
    I like bikes.
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  23. #23
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoebikerLa View Post
    I have been hassled by the cops for taking the lane, but that lasted about a week and went away when I didn't.
    Taking a Lane vs. Obstructing Traffic. I bet there is a really blurry line between those two concepts in the minds of cops. I am glad you wore them out on that issue.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  24. #24
    Senior Member StrangeWill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    That doesn't follow at all. The question remains, why should all vehicles have to abide by the same set of rules when they have vastly different sets of capabilities and limitations? Simply classifying them all as "vehicles" doesn't mean they are at all similar.
    What vehicles other than bikes do you see that are allowed to run lights? So far it's the only exception you want, which is not in place as a law.

    While different vehicles may have different laws, generally they have a main set of laws that are similar pertaining to traffic flow and safety.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Speedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricissimus View Post
    The question remains, why should all vehicles have to abide by the same set of rules when they have vastly different sets of capabilities and limitations? Simply classifying them all as "vehicles" doesn't mean they are at all similar.
    So we can understand, and predict what the other vehicles are going to do.

    If you look through JoeyBike's videos you'll find one where a pickup ran a stop sign in front of him. JoeyBike had plenty of time to react, dodge around the rear of the truck, and even comment on it for the benefit of his video audience. But somehow, it incensed him that a car should do what he feels is perfectly fine doing himself. So he swore at the driver and punched the rear of the truck.

    If it's okay for a biker to make his own judgement about when it is okay to run red lights and stop signs, then it is equally okay for an automobile driver to make a similar judgement. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. People who advocate the concept that everyone make up their own rules are advocating for total anarchy in the streets.

    Speedo
    Last edited by Speedo; 04-19-09 at 08:38 AM. Reason: grammar

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