Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-20-09, 08:32 AM   #1
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The motorists don't care about your lane position

riding this last week or so, I've been dissappointed by several motorists swinging way wide around my center of the lane position to short turn a right in front of me. I had one guy position himself for a right turn in the LEFT turn lane approaching an intersection because I was full in the straight/right turn lane. We both approached the intersection simulataneously with his truck nosing ahead of me with its' right turn blinker on. pathetic.

a couple right hooked me yesterday, they got a few feet ahead crossing the double yellow as i was centered in the lane, to cut me off to make a right turn in front of me. i had to slow and swing way wide in a 'bumper lateral' to avoid them as they spooled up to make the turn right in front of me. no patience at all, they could have slowed down and waited less than five seconds...

and a different, crossing manuver.....a motorist in a hurry to enter a one-way arterial making a left was going to cut my girlfriend and I off as we proceeded straight across the intersection. he was too impatient to wait his turn and was just rolling the stopsign directly behind a delivery van despite him needing to stop and yield to us- traffic proceeding straight thru the intersection. pathetic again.

I don't know how some of y'all brazenly expect to evaporate intersection conflicts with lane position as some motorists will ignore destination positioning, ignore rules of the road and try to get a transitory road advantage or pass you regardless.

and if a bicyclist positions themselves so far to the left of a lane motorists pass on the right, opening themself up to left hooks from behind as motorists want to speed up to pass on the right to make a left turn.

motorists need more education than bicyclists do about how to interact on the roads.

Last edited by Bekologist; 04-20-09 at 08:52 AM.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 08:51 AM   #2
djetelina
Senior Member
 
djetelina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bikes: Treks; 5200 & 3700
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A little light on the subject

Here in Houston, motorists are generally pretty considerate. But not always. When riding in groups, cars are very seldom any problem When solo, problems sometimes pop up. My solution is as follows:
1_ Front light from Planet Bike. Has flashing mode, sells for about $40, think it is their "1 watt" model.
2_Taillight from Dinotte in New Hampshire; about $120. A REALLY bright taillight.
With that the table is set for item #3.
3_ A really loud vocal annunciation to any driver who fails to realize that I am serious when it comes to my health and well-being.
djetelina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 08:59 AM   #3
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I run daytime viz flashers- 3 watt front on flash - and wear high viz and position myself quite assertively.

I have come to expect these traffic transgressions. I find the 'lane position as cure all' pablum of the vehikular cyklists crowd leaves something to be desired in actual execution.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 08:59 AM   #4
Kurt Erlenbach
Senior Member
 
Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Space Coast, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 2,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I find it very entertaining to move to the center of the lane when approaching a stop, and then watching the drivers experience the primal urge to pass and end up in the wrong lane at the stop. The idiocy of these people never ceases to amaze me.
Kurt Erlenbach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 09:40 AM   #5
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Yeah, motorists still sometimes pull stupid stunts that cyclists need to be prepared to avoid, but you have to admit that assertive lane position reduces the frequency of these incidents. Lane position as a "cure all"? I don't think anyone who rides regularly would say that. Maybe a cure most?

The silliest thing about the whole impatient motorist thing, is the fact that they have a pedal connected to hundreds of horse power. With a light push of it, they could easily speed back up to the exact position they would have been in, had they not been momentarily held up by a cyclist. Ugh.
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 10:03 AM   #6
ghettocruiser
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: dropmachine.com
Bikes:
Posts: 4,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
At least I get less flat tires out there.
ghettocruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 10:18 AM   #7
hannahmontana
Banned.
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: You aren't too bright are you? I like that in a man.
Bikes: Trek Belleville
Posts: 508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
I run daytime viz flashers- 3 watt front on flash - and wear high viz and position myself quite assertively.

I have come to expect these traffic transgressions. I find the 'lane position as cure all' pablum of the vehikular cyklists crowd leaves something to be desired in actual execution.
Your personal and unbiased observations have totally destroyed the vehikular cyklist movement. Very well done. Now kindly address Muslim extremism. Can't last more than a couple of weeks once you are on the job.
hannahmontana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 10:51 AM   #8
Bekologist
totally louche
Thread Starter
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wow, an unabashed critic & new to the forums. welcome.


as to dismissing vehikular cyklings tenets- i'd put the blame squarely on the motorists who don't give a rats' behind about bicyclists using destination positioning.

I find the pablum of lane positioning as a cure to intersection conflicts wildly overemphasized.....the motorists don't care about your lane position, and some will hook you regardless of lane position.

Last edited by Bekologist; 04-20-09 at 10:57 AM.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 11:15 AM   #9
Wanderer
aka Phil Jungels
 
Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Aurora, IL
Bikes: 08 Specialized Crosstrail Sport, 05 Sirrus Comp
Posts: 7,573
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
I watch my rear view mirror. You can usually predict which ones need extra instructions.

When vehicles following me don't move over as they approach from a distance - I do!

I find that taking the lane then forces them to move over to the next lane while passing.

Doing otherwise usually results in a buzz.....
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 11:37 AM   #10
ChipSeal
www.chipsea.blogspot.com
 
ChipSeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Bikes: Giant OCR C0 road
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
As to dismissing vehikular cyklings tenets- I'd put the blame squarely on the motorists who don't give a rats' behind about bicyclists using destination positioning.

I find the pablum of lane positioning as a cure to intersection conflicts wildly overemphasized.....the motorists don't care about your lane position, and some will hook you regardless of lane position.
Good point, Bek. Will you be returning to gutter-hugging now? Do explain your future lane-positioning plans and reasons for doing so in light of this thread.
ChipSeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 11:39 AM   #11
randya
Senior Member
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
motorists need more education than bicyclists do about how to interact on the roads.
randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 11:43 AM   #12
ChipSeal
www.chipsea.blogspot.com
 
ChipSeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Bikes: Giant OCR C0 road
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by djetelina View Post
Here in Houston, motorists are generally pretty considerate. But not always. When riding in groups, cars are very seldom any problem When solo, problems sometimes pop up. My solution is as follows:
(snip) (Summery of snipped content: Use flashing lights and yell)
The problem is not a failure to be seen, the problem is reckless motorists.
ChipSeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 11:51 AM   #13
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
Posts: 5,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Lane position as a "cure all"? I don't think anyone who rides regularly would say that. Maybe a cure most?
Of course not. This is just another strawman/trolling post.
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 11:58 AM   #14
enine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You know what though, people don't just treat bikes this way. I can't tell you how many times I've been passed only to have the person pull back in front of me then turn right causing me to have to hit the brakes. I remember one pretty clear a couple I almost hit because of their tinted tail lights so I couldn't even tell they hit the brakes, or the volvo wagon that made a right turn from the left lane right in front of me. They usually do this because I am going close to the speed limit or I stopped at the red light/stop sign. This is while driving.
enine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 12:25 PM   #15
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I get idiots who haul ass to pass me within, say 500ft, of a stop about once a month, and I've even seen them do it to Amish buggies. I probably get one who barely avoids oncoming traffic (or me) weekly. All lane position does is give you some breathing room to maneuver and gives the timid (aka safe) drivers something to think about before passing...it ain't a cure for stoopid.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 03:28 PM   #16
nelson249
"Per Ardua ad Surly"
 
nelson249's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Bikes: Bianchi Specialissima, Mongoose Hilltopper ATB, Surly Cross-Check, Norco City Glide
Posts: 1,416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
I get idiots who haul ass to pass me within, say 500ft, of a stop about once a month, and I've even seen them do it to Amish buggies. I probably get one who barely avoids oncoming traffic (or me) weekly. All lane position does is give you some breathing room to maneuver and gives the timid (aka safe) drivers something to think about before passing...it ain't a cure for stoopid.
You can say that again. Stupid people find all sorts of idiotic things to do regardless of the precautions taken ... the trick is being out of the line of fire.... Sometimes I feel like Jane Goodall watching all the chimps as I move through traffic .... Come to think of it the chimps are probably smarter....
nelson249 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 04:12 PM   #17
Treespeed
Warning:Mild Peril
 
Treespeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle Refugee in Los Angeles
Bikes: Cilo, Surly Pacer, Kona Fire Mountain w/Bob Trailer, Scattante
Posts: 3,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
I get idiots who haul ass to pass me within, say 500ft, of a stop about once a month, and I've even seen them do it to Amish buggies. I probably get one who barely avoids oncoming traffic (or me) weekly. All lane position does is give you some breathing room to maneuver and gives the timid (aka safe) drivers something to think about before passing...it ain't a cure for stoopid.
Bump
__________________
Non semper erit aestas.
Treespeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 05:05 PM   #18
CommuterRun
Conservative Hippie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wakulla Co. FL
Bikes:
Posts: 4,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lane positioning doesn't eliminate these types of conflicts, if only mitigates them. It also gives the cyclist more options as to an escape when the terminally stupid are encountered.
CommuterRun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 06:43 PM   #19
uke
it's easy if you let it.
 
uke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: indoors and out.
Bikes:
Posts: 4,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
motorists need more education than bicyclists do about how to interact on the roads.
Yup.
uke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 06:53 PM   #20
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Bikes: Surly LHT, and 3 others
Posts: 5,483
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
...no patience at all, they could have slowed down and waited less than five seconds...

...some of y'all brazenly expect to evaporate intersection conflicts with lane position as some motorists will ignore destination positioning, ignore rules of the road and try to get a transitory road advantage or pass you regardless.
They MUST pass! Don't you know that?

I don't use lane position to "evaporate intersection conflict" - I use speed. Even a Ferrari can't make a 90 degree right turn at 20+ mph. Just can't be done. I too find that lane position alone prevents nothing from overtaking vehicles.
JoeyBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 08:18 PM   #21
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,327
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Tonight I had a motorist just miss me by a few inches, then only to 45 degree dive into a parking space 50 ft. in front of me while I was doing 18 mph. I also happen to be on the inside edge of a local bike lane, in enough away to avoid doors, but out just enough to avoid conflicts with most motorists.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 08:28 PM   #22
slagjumper
Senior Member
 
slagjumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Down on East End Avenue.
Bikes: Salsa Las Cruces, Burley R&R and a boat load of others.
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
...and if a bicyclist positions themselves so far to the left of a lane motorists pass on the right, opening themself up to left hooks from behind as motorists want to speed up to pass on the right to make a left turn.
At the risk of sounding paternalistic or worse.. dont get hit out there!

Perhaps the NWestern motorists are getting too wise to wise cyclists. Why not play dumb, by, (with full awarness of what's rreally behind you), move from slightly right of the center of the lane to within a foot of the left side as you near the intersection? You could fake a distraction, to telegraph, "I am a dumb, distracted cyclist, I might hit you and cause you to fill out a lot of paperwork"

For some reason, this projection of stupidity also disarms hostility.

I also find that people do this because they are of course in a hurry, but also because they cannot well judge speed and distance. Perhaps they are of old age, are new drivers, have misbalanced eyesight or are inpaired.

What about looking back, seeing that they want to turn, then moving to the left lane? Boy that just sounds bad as I write it.
slagjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 08:30 PM   #23
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes:
Posts: 6,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerlenbach View Post
I find it very entertaining to move to the center of the lane when approaching a stop, and then watching the drivers experience the primal urge to pass and end up in the wrong lane at the stop. The idiocy of these people never ceases to amaze me.
Ahhhh yes, the drivers that have no idea what's going on ahead of them more than one car length away.
__________________
Silver Eagle Pilot
Dchiefransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 08:54 PM   #24
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,781
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
riding this last week or so, I've been dissappointed by several motorists swinging way wide around my center of the lane position to short turn a right in front of me. I had one guy position himself for a right turn in the LEFT turn lane approaching an intersection because I was full in the straight/right turn lane. We both approached the intersection simulataneously with his truck nosing ahead of me with its' right turn blinker on. pathetic.

a couple right hooked me yesterday, they got a few feet ahead crossing the double yellow as i was centered in the lane, to cut me off to make a right turn in front of me. i had to slow and swing way wide in a 'bumper lateral' to avoid them as they spooled up to make the turn right in front of me. no patience at all, they could have slowed down and waited less than five seconds...

and a different, crossing manuver.....a motorist in a hurry to enter a one-way arterial making a left was going to cut my girlfriend and I off as we proceeded straight across the intersection. he was too impatient to wait his turn and was just rolling the stopsign directly behind a delivery van despite him needing to stop and yield to us- traffic proceeding straight thru the intersection. pathetic again.

I don't know how some of y'all brazenly expect to evaporate intersection conflicts with lane position as some motorists will ignore destination positioning, ignore rules of the road and try to get a transitory road advantage or pass you regardless.

and if a bicyclist positions themselves so far to the left of a lane motorists pass on the right, opening themself up to left hooks from behind as motorists want to speed up to pass on the right to make a left turn.

motorists need more education than bicyclists do about how to interact on the roads.
I tried to make this point with Helmet Head years ago, but he wasn't buying it. The bottom line is that cyclists are viewed as obstructions, less even than a dog in the road, as we are viewed as being "smart enough to not be there," but stubborn enough to "prove a point." Thus motorists chose to "fight us." Thus we get the attitudes, the trash throwing, the affronts, and the brazen motorists that just want to "teach us a lesson."

But just remember "if you act like the driver of a vehicle, you will be treated like a driver of a vehicle."
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-09, 09:01 PM   #25
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes:
Posts: 6,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
I tried to make this point with Helmet Head years ago, but he wasn't buying it. The bottom line is that cyclists are viewed as obstructions, less even than a dog in the road, as we are viewed as being "smart enough to not be there," but stubborn enough to "prove a point." Thus motorists chose to "fight us." Thus we get the attitudes, the trash throwing, the affronts, and the brazen motorists that just want to "teach us a lesson."

But just remember "if you act like the driver of a vehicle, you will be treated like a driver of a vehicle."
I've come to the conclusion that it's not cyclists that are viewed as an obstruction. They view the world and everything in it as an obstruction.
__________________
Silver Eagle Pilot
Dchiefransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:08 AM.