Clarks

I have noticed that quite a few of us have been hit by new and/or illegal immigrants. Immigrants to the USA/Canada who go for licenses are reeducated about the rules of the road here but I don't think any attention is paid to their 'driving attitudes'. Many immigrant drivers come from countries where might is right. They come from countries where the bigger your vehicle is the more power and influence you have on the road: Pedestrian, cyclist, car, big car, bus, truck, big truck is the pecking order in many countries. The vehicle that moves first has the right of way, etc. They come from countries where it's ok to drink and drive. Many come from countries where an accident is just an accident, no more, no less. I talked to a taxi driver who hit a pedestrian and what I'll always remember is he kept stressing the pedestrian didn't have the right of way, the fact that the pedestrian didn't have the right of way was the most important thing to this taxi driver, "He thought he had the right of way, but he didn't". I use taxis all the time and most of these guys are immigrants and when you talk to them you see they are not afraid of hitting a bike so long as they are not at fault. Most of the taxi drivers I encouter are too aggressive and very proud of the fact they are aggressive. One driver told me he was aggressive because it was the only way to get respect on the road, especially when he was driving 12 hours a day, he went onto say that being aggressive was the only way to survive, then he said he was aggressive because everyone else was aggressive, he told me that if drivers weren't polite then he got even more aggressive. Many immigrant drivers drive with the attitudes of their old country. I suggest that any of you that live in major cities go and use a taxi and start chatting with the driver about 'bikes on the streets' and see what their general attitude is towards us, and please report back to us on this board after you have talked to one. Chatting with these drivers is something that doesn't cost more than a cab fare and will really open your eyes because most of these guys say what comes to their mind.

I can't help but recall a post by someone on this board who lives in Ontario. This poster said he finds the guys who are most aggressive towards cyclists are middle-aged European guys, that was a shocker at first! Last nite I found out a Serbian guy hit a little 9 year old kid on a bike Sunday nite, thank god the child wasn't hurt but I have to wonder if this guy will go on to hit someone else, I really wonder. I have to wonder how much of his attitude had to do with the accident.

When you read what mainroman has written in this thread you will see how different driving attitudes are in other countries.
https://www.mbworld.org/forums/off-to...rian-rant.html


So, in short, I think the attitudes of drivers need to be addressed and not just determining whether or not they know the rules of the road. If we can change drivers attitudes less bicyclists will get hit. Is it possible to change a driver's attitudes? If so, what is the best way of doing it?

TRaffic Jammer

wow, racist much?

Clarks

Here's the thread where the fellow from Ontario mentions middle aged European drivers

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...&highlight=AEO

gcottay

Maybe just anti immigrant in general.

mikeybikes

Doesn't necessarily sound racist, though I'm not sure what the point is.

Of course we need to change driver attitudes. Not just the immigrants either.

Clarks

Traffic Jammer, do you remember this accident?

https://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...x-cyclist.html

John E

Immigrants have an obligation to assimilate into North American culture and to accept the laws and prevailing values of their new homeland. Just as I would strongly oppose anyone trying to impose the barbaric torture elements of 7th Century Shari'ah law in the U.S. or Canada, I would equally strongly oppose anyone importing life-is-cheap Darwinistic 2nd or 3rd world standards of motoring. We have all seen the studies which show that walking and bicycling are far safer in North America and parts of northwestern Europe than in the developing countries.

__
Teddy Roosevelt's key words are "good faith," and "assimilates himself":

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin."

rwp

Are you sure that the key words aren't "it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin"?

degnaw

"There are two types of racism; singling someone out because of their race, and NOT singling someone out because of their race."

I'm Chinese and think it's pretty clear that lots of immigrants drive as aggressively here as they do in China, which generally places them as the most aggressive/wost drivers around. It may be a stereotype, but it's not necessarily racist.

annc

It's unfair to compare the behavior of individuals in on country to another since the rules (both legal and social) can be very different.

Also, be careful that your observation doesn't exhibit confirmation bias. I have a friend that believes that women are the worst drivers on the road and will point out every mistake or stupid move by a woman driver. Of course, he does say anything if the driver is a man. Assertions like "generally places them as the most aggressive/wost drivers" need proof.

Roody

First, I don't think it's racist to hate on immigrant driving practices. But it's important to remember that most immigrants do want to assimilate, and they will assimilate. It just takes time and learning.

I agree that part of the problem is that some immigrants bring agressive and undisciplined drivnig practices. But a lot of new arrivals just don't know how to drive. It must not take a lot of training to get a DL in some countries. Or people have training, but they have little or no experience. It doesn't help that our traffic signals are in words instead of the pictographs that most countries use.

Maybe new residents should be required to take written exams and road tests before driving in this country.

urbanknight

Discriminating against a birthplace or origin is different than discriminating against a refusal to accept local customs and laws. The former is racism, the latter is not.

uke

Clarks has a history of racist and xenophobic posts; this is just the latest edition.

chipcom 

Really? Please show me, I haven't and I must have missed all those threads.

rideabike

is this based on your experiences in other countries or on what you've read on Republican blogs?

uke

^ For that matter, that statement seems to apply completely to *this* country.

TRaffic Jammer

Yes I do , there was a fund raiser here for him recently. Being almost killed by a s**thead cabbie, I still won't attribute to his being from another country though. Plenty of despicable driving behavior all 'round for everyone.

IbikezLA

They come from countries where the bigger your vehicle is the more power and influence you have on the road

I think that's pretty much everywhere, especially the US.

chipcom 

On Mars it's even worse than in Joisey. Just sayin.

rwp

Tell it to TR, the words are his, not mine.

My point was that plenty of drivers, not just foreign born ones, exhibit aggressive road manners. The OP was not "decriminating against a refusal to accept local customs and laws" because plenty of native born Americans refuse to do this and he doesn't seem to have any problem with that. Instead, he chose to "descriminate against a birthplace or origin" by specifically complaining about foreigner's driving habits.

Roughstuff

Loved reading your post, and though I haven't yet turned to the responses, I can only IMAGINE the carping about racism, anti-immigrant sentiment, whatever. Just a couple of comments:

(1) illegal immigrants who hit cyclists (or commit any crime for that matter) should

a: be fined and imprisoned under the provisions of US law, and
b: deported immediately upon release.

(2) legal immigrants who hit cyclists (or commit any crime, for that matter) should

a: be fined and impisoned under provisions of US law...
b: upon release, be given full dimplomatic privileges for an appointment with our Anointed One who will apologize (maybe even kiss their ring, or any other appendage they may deem appropriate) for our lack of sensitivity to their heavy handed cultural driving habits, and our unmitigated arrogance for suggesting that they comply with US laws and culture while in this, the most heinous of nations..
c: granted tenure at Howard University in Washington DC, with regular limousine service too and from campus, so that they do not become short winded while they pontificate on the need for mass transit.
d: provided post position at NASCAR!


roughstuff

Ajenkins

I tell you what, roughstuff. My family history in this country goes back to the pre-revolutionary war days. In fact, one of my ancestors was granted a honkin' big chunk of New Hampshire before he went over to fight with the rebels (and, of course, lost the land grant).

So as far as I'm concerned, punk, you are the lazy, leeching immigrant, and if you don't straighten your act up now, I'm going to have you deported.

chipcom 

My family history goes back to those savages you all stole this land from...so as far as I am concerned, white eyes, you're nuthin but an invading imperialist thief. Funny how this stuff works, eh?

Metzinger

Clarks, quoted from another thread:
Imagine his gleeful perusal of the daily news.

Ajenkins

My point exactly!