closetbiker

In the video of the news broadcast included in the web article, they mention this penalty is applicable on bike paths as well as roads.

I wonder if that includes MUPs where pedestrians walk in front of cyclists? Probably.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/ja...0618-cird.html

Jail threat for dangerous cyclists

Clay Lucas
June 18, 2009

Cyclists found to have killed or seriously injured a pedestrian will face penalties of up to five years in jail or a $68,000 fine, after tough new laws came into effect today.

"Cyclists need to recognise that, if they do occasion damage, they have responsibilities. They do need to stop,'' said Roads Minister Tim Pallas said, launching the new laws this morning at a Bourke Street bicycle shop.

The new penalties, he said, would help police tackle reckless riding by cyclists, and reduce the likelihood of pedestrians, other cyclists or drivers suffering serious injury.

"We're driving home to cyclists the need for them to obey road laws or be punished,'' he said.

Cyclists would now be on a similar footing to motorists if they are charged with serious traffic offences, he said.

"Cycling is becoming a legitimate form of transport,'' Mr Pallas said.

"But (with the recognition) that this is an important means of transport comes increased responsibility. This Government will come down hard on bad behaviour because there is a real consequence.''

Over the last decade, two pedestrians have been killed by cyclists.

James Gould, 77, was killed in Mentone in 2006 by a cyclist on the controversial Hell Ride.

Another pedestrian died in 2000 when she was hit by a cyclist running a red light.

The Brumby Government was spurred into action after cyclist William Raisin-Shaw was fined just $400 for colliding with Mr Gould.

The new maximum penalties under the laws, which come into force today, include:

* $284 or seven days' prison if property is damaged by a cyclist and the rider does not immediately stop and offer assistance

* $13,610 or prison for 12 months, or both, for dangerous riding

* $681 for careless riding

* $68,052 or five years in prison if a person is killed or seriously injured by a cyclist and the rider does not immediately stop and offer assistance

Under previous bicycle laws, cyclists could only be fined up to $567 for riding in a dangerous, careless or reckless manner.

All penalties are effective today, except those for the new careless riding law, which will come into force later this year.

maddyfish

Not being familiar with the Canadian legal system, are these penalties in line with those that a motor vehicle operator would suffer if involved in a crash with a ped/cyclist?

As long as they are similar, I have no problem with it.

closetbiker

This is an Australian law and yes, at the end of broadcast, the newscaster says this law in in line with what motorists pay.

maddyfish

On bike paths/MUPs you as a cyclist should not travel significantly faster than a ped. So it should not be a problem. If you hit a ped who travels at 2mph, while you are riding 4 mph, a serious injury is unlikely.

rideabike

Even if the laws are similar, the situations aren't similar.

How many motorists are criminally charged when they run a red light and kill someone? If they are not drunk or speeding, they are rarely charged. it's "simple an unfortunate accident."

Run a red light on a bike and hit someone and say it's "simple an unfortunate accident." I doubt a jury or prosecutor would buy that since you were on a bike.

I'm not saying that people should run red lights, although I know that the angry people with reading problems won't get that. I'm pointing out that this law will not be evenly applied because the public is more used to auto accidents than bicycle accidents and will refuse to catagorize the accidents in the same way.

closetbiker

I avoid MUPs because of the pedestrian problem.

In my municipality the only law on these is that a cyclist must yield to a pedestrian but what I've found is pedestrians move in front of moving cyclists.

I have more close calls on a MUP than on the road.

genec

Can I simply avoid all charges by saying "he swerved?"

Or here in the US the usual response to hitting a cyclist, and even a ped is "I didn't see him."

The motorists are then given the harsh sentence of "remorse."

closetbiker

I guess if there was no other evidence you probably could, but if there's a dead pedestrian lying on the path/road and a witness saying the cyclist hit the pedestrian, evidence would be against the cyclist unless there was additional evidence (like, another pedestrian saying the pedestrian swerved in front of the cyclist)

Rob_U

$68,052 or five years in prison if a person is killed or seriously injured by a cyclist and the rider does not immediately stop and offer assistance

Hit and run seems to be the biggest issue with this fine/sentence.

Dchiefransom

Unless that pedestrian is 77 years old. At that age, any fall might be fatal.

JonnyHK 

The case of that old guy was a very long and public one.

Beach Road in Melbourne is a popular cycling route on weekends. A large pack of cyclists had formed (it was 30-40 or more) and was going along at a decent pace. The old guy is waiting at a pedestrian crossing (can't recall if it was also an intersection). Traffic light goes red as the pack is just at the light.

Half the pack goes through, but in the middle there was confusion. Some riders (who could see what was happening) calling to stop, some riders further back (who couldn't see everything) calling to run the red.

Old guy gets the green walk signal. BAM 20-30km/h t-bone.

Cyclists (as a group) were 100% in the wrong, old guy dies.

One of the cyclists (one who actually hit) was prosecuted. His defence was that he had dozens of cyclists up his backside all pushing on and was going to have an accident either way (ie if he stopped he would have been hit from behind). Can't recall exactly what happened to the charges, but I think he got off the serious ones and was convicted of a basic careless or failure to give way type thing.

closetbiker

Good to get some more info on the story.

I would have thought the issue wasn't as clear cut as some might think just as I thought the occurrence of cyclists killing pedestrians was relatively rare.

dobber

Can you cite factual evidence of that claim? Or is this just the typical AnS victim mentality?

probe1957

Clearly, a serious problem calling for immediate government action.

JonnyHK 

While I'm not saying that the punishment shouldn't fit the crime and that idiot cyclists should be treated any differently to idiot drivers, I smell political stunt.

Keith99

The penalties mentioned can be avioded simply by stopping and giving assistance.

In short the big penalties mentioned are for cycling hit and run.

closetbiker

I don't know if you can say the cyclists were 100% in the wrong. They were wrong but it sounds as if the old guy stepped out in front of a group that was looking like at least some of them were going to run the red.

closetbiker

Even in my province, if someone doesn't stop and offer assistance or hits and run, the charges become more serious. Atr the very least it turns into a criminal offense as opposed to a traffic offence.

If I remember right, at the minimum, a cyclist can be fined $109 for riding without due care and attention plus another $109 for reckless riding and a further $167 for hitting the pedestrian. Probably more fines ($109 each offense) for running a red and riding in a crosswalk (provided the ped was crossing in a crosswalk on a green)

Throw in the criminal offense of hit and run and not offering assistance it'd be not so good for the cyclist

JonnyHK 

OK, I know that I wouldn't have stepped off the footpath, but I've got pretty much perfect hearing and vision. I'm willing to bet the old guy didn't, so there is not much mitigation for the cyclists there.

The cyclists ran a red light deliberately.

meanwhile

Are you Australian? This law sounds like it was a response, when brought in for cars, to a notorious drunk driving case there.

Ok, you doubt - but do you have any coherent reason to doubt? No.

Did you read what the quote said? No. The 5 years isn't for hitting someone but ***injuring them seriously and riding away.*** That's a lousy thing to do and people should be punished for it.

I'm copacetic with (safe) red light running (ex-courier here) but not with picking up a bike and leaving the wounded and dying behind. It's ironic that you should complain of others' reading problems when you have failed to pick this emphasis up.

You point something out when you have facts and a reasoned argument; you're just saying stuff. Different thing.

meanwhile

They were 100% in the wrong. It isn't up to victims to compensate for others' illegal actions. Plus my father is 81. He can cope with a red or green light... but working out whether a cyclist is going to jump one? No. If you're RLJing the onus is on you to avoid peds. "To live outside the law you'd better know what you're doing" - as Bob Dylan might have said if he's written a book on guerrilla urban cycling in his amphetamine rock period.

degnaw

Drivers tend only run red lights within half a second of their light turning red, and cyclists tend to enter the intersection before their light turns green (as soon as the light for opposing traffic turns red).

Is the driver really solely at fault, and is there evidence that the driver actually ran a red light?

JonnyHK 

Australia (well, certainly Melbourne) has not only speed cameras, but also red light cameras.

Any 'accident' that the police attend will most likely see one of the vehicles involved charged with Careless Driving - even minor car vs car fender benders. Damn hard charge to beat since the proof in law is set so low.

At the *very least* a driver that hit a cyclist at an intersection would get a Careless charge.