Fritzdecat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFiowOcnIw

This idiot needs jailtime

Mr Danw

Perhaps he was defending himself. The ped sure seemed to be going after him. If the ped were the one being assaulted one would think fleeing would be a better defense than taking it in the melon.

lukasz

It does kind of look like the pedestrian tried to grab the guy as he was walking away. If this is the case, I'd say that the cyclist was justified in doing all he could to get away.

I alternately read the scene as the ped and the cyclist agreeing to move out of the intersection, because they are blocking traffic, and the argument escalating there. No use guessing though. If you start swinging a several pound metal object at someone you better be prepared to spend some time in jail.

I hate that people are calling him a bike messenger because he's purchased the uniform. That is not what an NYC bike messenger looks like. Too clean, too slow, too suburban-******. How hard is it to avoid one pedestrian? That is all I see in the intersection.

frymaster

well, it's certainly a popular pastime on a&s to find a cyclist being a bad person and then berating them on the internet. so, for the sake of balance, here's a fine video of a motorist beating up a cyclist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H0Pb_qjj6k

interesting to note, for all the law-n-order types out there, that the driver -- the guy doing all the punching -- is, himself, a cop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txVZhepSe1Y

Fritzdecat

Anyone coming to the defense of the biker needs to ask yourself

In broad daylight in front of witnesses you are hitting an unarmed man on the head with a metal object that could possibly kill him and you call that justified?

Natasha Richardson died from less

The pedestrian did not appear to be
throwing punches if you watch the video , just scolding the punk

I hope they find this kid and give him the jailtime he deserves

bicyclerampage

yea the u lock weapon is getting old its ridiculous i can understand if you were yourself assaulted with a deadly weapon. if fisticuffs is completely necessary man up and do it right.

Fritzdecat

exactly

rowedave76

Plenty of fair fights with no weapons end up with someone dead just the same. People should be able to defend themselves by any means, they just need to know when to stop. I'd prefer to not defend myself fairly, I'd want any unfair advantage to ensure I get to stay alive. If the pedestrian in the video got the upper hand, who is to say he won't bash this guys head into the pavement until the bicycle guy is dead?

Now looking at the video, its hard to tell exactly who is throwing the first punch, or if the pedestrian was moving in to attack, but at about 20 seconds into the video you can see the bicycle guy move away, and then move back in to land a few more hits while the pedestrian is staggering around. At that point the guy starts to lose any legal base for defending himself. The same thing happens to police all the time, they get into it, and don't know when to stop and then everyone says excessive force.

Digital_Cowboy

Yes, he does. It's not really clear from that video though, what started the beat down?

huhenio

don't bring a u-lock to a gunfight

Digital_Cowboy

Likewise don't bring a knife to a gunfight. ;-)

CommuterRun

Don't know what started it, but I didn't see anything in the clip to say what the cyclist did was unjustified. Looked to me like he tried twice to walk away and the punk ped-boy kept badgering him then tried to kick him. Self-defense. Punk ped-boy got what he was looking for.

apricissimus 

Mmm... Maybe. I personally am not willing to lay blame on either party or to say whether or not the use of the u-lock was justified. The video really doesn't show what went on in close quarters between the two, and I don't think it's right to make assumptions.

It is telling though that the cyclist appeared to be trying to walk away and the ped kept getting after him.

Fritzdecat

The cyclist had more than enough time to bolt

but if you WATCH the video you can see he went back to whack the guy

He deserves jail

johndavis

Where do you see the pedestrian trying to kick him?

All I see is somebody badgering a guy on a bike, and following him because the guy is trying to leave before he can finish saying what he wants to.

Regardless of who started the argument, or whether whatever the pedestrian was saying was right or correct or justified, the guy had no reason to start swinging his U-lock, especially not when the person he was swinging it at is a frumpy middle-aged man who poses no threat to anybody.

CommuterRun

0:16, someone who attacks somebody deserves to get hit multiple times with whatever the attacked has at hand. Until the threat is mitigated. Looks to me like that's what happened here. Ped was looking for a fight, and found one.

BarracksSi

"Punk ped-boy"? Did I watch the same video? Who's the punk boy?

The old man did not pose enough of a threat to be worth hitting with a U-lock.

Sorry, but the cyclist was in the wrong here.

abstractform20

if the asian guy touched him forced or made an attempt to touch him then the cyclist was justified.

the men are in a distressed state and you can clearly see aggressive behavior.

if the asian man did make or attempt to make first contact then the cyclist is completely justified.

police officers approach every person as if they have at minimum, a knife.

the cyclist leaves as soon as the asian man retreats...the cyclist is also constantly moving away from the man.

youre allowed to "one up" the other person in self defense.

they use hands you can grab a bottle. they bring out a knife you can use a gun.

anyone saying that a street fight should only be hands, then thats great if this some 1950s broadway

musical where the gentlemen of the streets duke it out and fight fair.

if you believe that, then you are a complete idiot. a really big stupid idiot.

abstractform20

anyone using age to determine threat level is an idiot.

there are 2 able bodied adults. you idiots.

and you cannot see a weapon...this does not mean the neither had a weapon.

idiots.

BarracksSi

So why the hell didn't he KEEP moving away?

He had the chance to leave, so why not? He was even already ahead of the guy as they started walking away from the corner.

Whatever stupid thing they were arguing about, the biker had the chance to bail. But no, he had to prove the size of his balls by swinging a steel weight at the guy's head.

I'm with the OP. The punk kid, not the old man, needs some jail time.

Metzinger

The animosity here is dramatic.
Kids should not be allowed to view such violent stuff.

BarracksSi

If the full story ever comes out -- and I know it won't, because whoever screwed up will lie about it to hide their guilt -- I'd put good money on the cyclist being the bigger jackass.

Yeah, this forum is A&S -- but "Advocacy" does not mean "protecting every cyclist no matter how idiotic they are".

abstractform20

there is a substantial amount of video which does not show the interaction between both men.

it is stupid to place blame without a full context.

the video shows 1 man following and shouting at another man with a bicycle. it is clear the cyclist is attempting to leave. a blind spot appears and the next shot shows a man reaching towards the cyclist, who then swings a u lock at him. the cyclist immediately stops swinging the u lock when the man retreats from the cyclist. the first several swings appear to hit the body of the man.

perhaps the man grabbed the cyclists bike? perhaps he assaulted him? the man appears to be the aggressor as he pursues the cyclist. if i had someone pursuing me, within 1 foot of me i would definitely not TURN MY BACK and throw one leg of the bicycle the attempt to pedal off.

and your bias is clearly evidence of ageism: "punk kid" and "old man"

both appear to be adults.

you have no context of the prior events.

before exposing his testicles' nature, the cyclist tried to leave...the man pursued him. what is the intent of someone that pursues you?

exactly. you dont know.

people. some really need experience or understanding of physical conflict/confrontation.

abstractform20

also before the cyclist says "whats your problem?" the man extends his arms towards the cyclist's chest.

if anyone here has knowledge of judo, bjj, wrestling, kickboxing, or a variety of fighting techniques, you are aware of the numerous tactics that are employed by directly attacking the center of gravity.

i am not alleging the man is a practitioner, however it would be naive and potentially deadly
to assume the unknown people are less able to defend themselves and damage others are well as you can.

xenologer

He was scared, the adrenaline was pumping.
Its hard to keep a cool head and consider your best/logical/legal options in such a panic.
Ever watch that Twilight Zone episode? Monsters Due on Maple Street? When it comes down to the line people are not themselves, how someone reacts in such a new situation doesn't necesearially reflect their normal character.

And in some states (CA), you do not have to retreat from danger, standing ground is legal. As well as pursuing the attacker if it may secure yourself from further danger. Perhaps the kid perceived that the man might kick him off the bike before he could pedal off and therefore needed to continue with the Ulock till the man was clearly in no position to try and pursue... (tho more likely the former case of neither one has the time to actually think things thru is what happened)


Yep. But police are specifically trained to avoid losing control in these kinds of intense situations, they have experience and know how to evaluate what kind of force is deadly or not; a young cyclist most likely does not. I don't think he ought to be held to the same standard of liability as a cop.
It's because of this we have Mutual Combat laws...