noisebeam

I don't have a strong desire for a mirror as I am very comfortable looking over the shoulder even just for keeping aware of surrounds, but sometimes like the idea.

I tried a "take-a-look" mirror (the compact version, not the original)

I got used to it quickly to scan the road behind me - just as described by other users (a slight head tilt to the left and then a scan)

But what I could not get used to was that it blocked my peripheral vision on the left. Most useful there is seeing lights other lanes change when waiting at intersection or seeing that cares are stopping at red before going. Sure I can tilt my head and look, but its was also the sensation of peripheral vision being blocked.

So my questions are "Is that also something that one adjusts to?" and "Is the original take-a-look better in this regard since it sits further from the eye?"

I also did not like it because of fiddling with my glasses everytime I put them on.

I think I'll try a bar end mirror (for mtb handle bar) I figure it can only help and not hurt. But I am in no rush to get a mirror, I like looking over shoulder (and would continue to for lane changes obviously)

Al

randya

There are several older threads on this subject.

I'd rather ride without my helmet than without my mirror.

I agree with you that the 'compact' take-a-look mirror is harder to use/focus on than the longer-stemmed version. I use mine on a hardshell helmet rather than on my glasses.

noisebeam

I'm aware of threads on the mirror subject, but I couldn't find any on the blocked peripheral vision issue I had - they were more related to getting used to using it to look behind which I felt I adjusted to quite well.

But you very much helped me - I wondered if the compact version was perhaps not as good as the original and you suggested that the original is better - so maybe I'll give that one a try.

Al

AndrewP

I dont have problem with blocked peripheral vision. I think it is probably a question of adjustment as it only blocks that area for one eye. I think the helmet mounted mirrors are futher out, but the greater distance from the eye also means they provide a smaller field of view. Someone I know had vibration problems with a helmet mounted mirror.

You need to look over your shoulder for lane changes, because that also shows to cars that you are looking and gives an indication of your intentions.

randya

My experience is that there's a lot more vibration with bar mounted mirrors than with helmet mounted mirrors, but I'll bet the style, composition and manner of attachment to the helmet are all factors.

As far as the necessity of turning to look, there really is no blind spot with a helmet mounted mirror, if you know how to scan behind you correctly with it. Anyway, looking back is not the proper way to signal a lane change or turn - using a hand signal is!

madpogue 

I used to drive a car 12,000-15,000 miles/year. I still drive about 4,000/year. I use mirrors to change lanes; I find that turning my head causes me to lose "track" of the course of the road. I can adjust my side mirrors to eliminate blind spots. I find the same thing happens on my bicycles. Since I've been so accustomed to using my car mirrors for lane changes, it was a natural for me to do the same with bar-end mirrors on all my bikes.

The only difference is that my bikes only have mirrors on the left. It's only a problem on one road in town, where the bike lane is on the left side of a one-way street, and I have to turn right from it (thus make two right lane changes) on my trip home. My left mirror actually goes "'round behind" me enough, though, that I can see the lanes to my right, but only up to about 100 feet back. I have to use "kinetic memory" to know whether those lanes are clear within that distance.

I think it's all a matter of what you're accustomed to. Some people find having a mirror "relative" to their head (thus, a helmet- or eyeglass-mount) more "natural". Others, like me, find it more "natural" for the mirror to be relative to the bike (well, the handlebar, anyway). Perhaps I'm the latter as a result of so many years of so much car driving, so dependent on the door-mounted mirrors.

Roughstuff

I have been using an eyeglass or helmet mirror since my first tour back in the 1980s, when a stunned wheat farmer in alberta offered me $25 for the thing so he could cut his hayfield without looking back behind him all the time. I have mine lifted up a bit so that it does not obstruct traffic coming from the left at an intersection, though I am such an old farty slow rider i rarely had an problems at crossings in any case.

I use it constantly to see how cars coming up from behind move over, and adjust my riding accordingly. To me the best use of the mirror is trying to prevent you, a car from behind, and an oncoming vehicle all being in the same place at the same time. I will either speed up or slow down to prevent this, although in some cases it is inevitable.

roughstuff

noisebeam

I always use hand signals, even if I don't see a car (good practice and who knows if I missed seeing one)

I also understand that one needs to look over shoulder before lane change after checking mirror (just like when driving a car)

I really liked the view the eyeglass mirror gave - I quickly found the rear scan to be easy and useful. BUT I just could not get used to the mirror hanging to the left front of my eye after a week of using it - it just seemed to block an area of my forward vision that I guess I use when I ride - also when not using it to look behind me the mirror had constant motion in it that was distracting because it wasn't motion of what was directly behind me (its only after I tipped head a bit up and to the left that it pointed to road behind me -as I understand one should set it up to be). I had never seen any complaints regarding this hence my post wondering if anyone had this issue and if perhaps I needed more than a week for it get used to that particular issue.

Al

Dahon.Steve

I purchased the "take a look" mirror and considered it better than the Third Eye or the Revue Helmet. However, it does exactly what you said in that it blocks a patch of vision on the left. I don't consider this a major problem because the area it blocks it nonconsequential. But, it often throws you off balance because the light reflects right back into your eye. There are many times during a ride when I felt "dizzy" because the mirror was reflecting too much sun back into my left eye. Furthermore, it leaves large blind spots which require you to "search" for the car behind while not looking ahead. As a result, I rarely use the device although it may get some use this weekend because I still havn't given up.

This is what I didn't like from the "take a look" mirror.

1. Traffic Control -- I find one of the most effective use of traffic control in city driving is the ability to turn your head. This function is so important because the motorist will slow down if you become unpredictable by turning your head in his/her direction. Even if I'm not going to turn, I still use this exercise to prevent cars from going past me at bullet train speed. Otherwise, if the motorist sees you looking ahead, they often try to pass you a higher velocity.

2. Cumbersome to carry/Time consuming to install -- This device has to be put in your pants, jacket, bag where it can get damaged. I find myself each time I use the device concerned about what to do with it after a ride. Furthermore, it takes time to find the sweet spot setting every time I get on the bike.

3. Drivers will still hit you --- This is a huge problem and the mirror will not solve this. A motor car comming behind you will reach your destination in less than 1 or 2 seconds. You might be able to see them with a "Take a Look" mirror but you cannot drive for them! Futhermore, you cannot determine if they are going to vear (sp) in your direction and if this does happen, it's time for pins and screws! Every car that comes in your mirror is a possible drunk driver whose bad driving skills can easily take you out. With less than a second to react, I highly doubt you'll be able to jump off the bike. Ask yourself this. Are you going to jump off the bike for every car that looks like it's coming too close?

Where the mirror does work is making left turns around parked cars or other obstacles. It give me a little piece of mind when I see cars leaving a large amount of room when passing.

One person stated that turning left was better accomplished using this mirror and a hand signal while not turning your head. I dissagree. In fact, this is quite dangerous because there are blind spots in this mirror and cars can close in real fast. To put too much trust in these mirrors is just plain dangerous. Another posted make a remark that this mirror was similar to his motorcar. This is apples and oranges. When I had a motorcar, the mirror was significantly larger and I had the use of three for my convienence. Even then, there were still blind spots considering the length of coverage. The "Take A Look" mirror is only a fraction of the size of a motorcar mirror and should be treated with caution.

randya

Now that just sounds like a lot of excuses to me...

The take-a-look mirror is extremely durable and lives on my helmet always. There are no delicate plastic parts to break, or glue to fail, like some other brands. I can shove my helmet in my bag and not worry about the mirror. Adjustment is actually very quick and simple.

The size of the mirror relative to a car mirror is irrelevant, because of the closer proximity of the mirror to your eye.

If you think there are blind spots when using a helmet mirror, IMO, then you're not using it right...

No one ever said a mirror will prevent an accident, it just gives you a better connection with your surroundings, 360 degrees, and slightly more time to react.

I wouldn't drive my truck or car without a rearview mirror, and I wouldn't ride my bike without one, either.

slvoid

Steve is right, around here, motorists usually take a little more caution if you turn your head back, this shows that you know they're behind them but doesn't necessairly say you're going to be turning so they don't stop for you to turn either.
With so many cars in the city, a mirror doesn't help as much but its good for those long stretches of road when you can see a car 5-10 seconds behind you and get ready for them to blow by.

randya

Best site reviewing cycling mirrors and debunking myths about cycling mirrors that I have found:

https://users.rcn.com/icebike/Equipme...ingmirrors.htm

The myths:

Loss of Eye Fears
One reason that non-wearers frequently give for not wearing helmet or eyeglass mirrors is the fear of losing an eye in a crash. I have no statistics on this, nor have I ever heard of an incident of this happening, but I would bet that somewhere in the world it has happened. There is no history of litigation on this matter, so it must be extremely rare.
Eyeglass wearers are somewhat protected by their prescription lenses (you ARE wearing plastic, NOT glass lenses aren't you?) so one would imagine this danger would pertain more to helmet mounted mirrors, if it exists at all.
In the one serious crash and several minor ones that I have experienced, my eyeglass mirror was never damaged or even dislodged. Yet, I have managed to drop one onto the only rock in an otherwise well manicured lawn, and broke the mirror. Go Figure!

You Have to Head Turn
The other reason frequently given for not wearing an cycling mirror is the need to do a "head turn" to be absolutely sure nothing is behind you. Generally good advice, nothing wrong with being safe. I do it myself most of the time.
The problem is, this bit of advice is is often put forth with self righteous vehemence based on superstition and habits formed from driving automobiles, and always by someone who does not wear a mirror, and probably never tried one.
Most drivers have had an experience of peeking in the mirror, and starting a merge into the left lane only to hear the irate blare of a horn from another motorist lurking in the "blind spot". However, with a helmet or eyeglass mirror, THERE ARE NO BLINDSPOTS. A simple, quick10 to 20 degree turn of the head provides a full rearward scan, curb to curb with no place for a car or even another bike to hide.

Distraction:
You will occasionally hear people rail against mirrors because (they claim) the mirror distracts you from watching the road ahead, and you spend too much time looking behind you.
Right! Yet they are required by law on every motor vehicle and even jet fighter aircraft use them! This argument is often put forth by the same people who insist you have to do a head turn. The fact that a head turn is far more distracting than a peek in the mirror never even occurs to them. If they spend too much time looking behind it is because they have never tried a mirror long enough for the novelty to wear off. In a sense, this argument is essentially that mirrors work TOO well, so well that you will not be able to concentrate on where you are going.
As stated above, after wearing one for a week, you will find it so natural, and so convenient, that you will wonder how you ever got along without them. You will feel positively naked without your mirror while in traffic. You will even catch yourself peeking to your upper left while walking down the street.

Loss of Communication:
Finally, there is the Turn your head to "Communicate" with motorists argument, that says your head turn will tell the blue haired lady in the Suburban exactly that you intend to turn, and she will instantly understand and grant your wish, even though she hasn't been on a bike since the 6th grade.
Non cyclists have no idea why you turn your head, other than to believe that you turned and obviously you saw them and are therefore responsible to avoid them. If you wanted to turn, you would have signaled! That's the law. That's what they expect.
So the mirror lets you see, your signal lets them know, and your head turn satisfies your fears and superstitions regarding ghost cars that don't show up in mirrors. Uncharitable characterization? Perhaps, but no less so than those used by the anti mirror crowd, one of whom writes "Cyclists who have developed their worries more than their skills are strong advocates of rear view mirrors...".

noisebeam

This describes my experience as well - I almost wrote in my last post that the reflected movement in the mirror while not using it made me feel dizzy - kind of like reading while driving (as a passenger) which makes me vomit. I also ride away from the sun on my morning/evening commute and during the week I tried it, I often had sun glare in the mirror. But its also the periphreal vision blockage that bothered me.

As far as being aware of cars passing - there is never a time when they don't on a 4mi stretch of my commute where there is a contant pack of cars passing me going ~50mph. I'd have to be constantly looking behind me to be aware of any that were too far right. I generally feel safe and the right lane is a bit wider to accomidate bicycles (and there are two "share the road" signs on this stretch) Cars do get closer than 3' sometimes, but for some reason the close don't bother me as much as others seem to post about - I'm in control and they are, but perhaps being a bit rude for not giving me legal clearance.

I REALLY do want to get a mirror that works and that becomes 'part of me'. I really like the concept of the "take-a-look" perhaps I'll give it (the original versions) a second try.

Al

Dahon.Steve

Loss of communication by turning your head is not a myth. A motorist will be more cautious when a cyclists turns their head to the traffic lane. Since most cyclists do not use hand signals, the motorst looks head movement and understands this communication as a caution. I'm not saying it works all the time but I've done it with enough frequency to know it works to calm traffic the moment you become unpredictable. Most the time, I don't make a turn and use this technique right after a green light so the cars won't bullet past me.

Let me ask you this. When you see a cyclist on the road while driving, do you pay attention to the direction of her head?

noisebeam

I also find that _some_ vehicles will be more cautious if I turn my head, whether or not I plan to turn.

It basically fits into the pattern I see on the road:
5% of car drivers who are overly cautious of bike drivers (they stop 30ft behind you at a red light, wave you on when you don't have right of way, move to the entire other lane when passing you even if you are in a designated bike lane, etc.)
5% of car drivers who are overly agressive to bike drivers. (reference endless on-line stories of close calls, collisions and scary moments from overt agression)
and the remaining 90% of car drivers who are aware of bike drivers when they are paying attention (never a story), but don't always pay attention because they rarely encounter bikes and don't put much thought into the responsibilties of driving a 2000lb vehicle at 50mph (reference more on-line stories of close calls, collisions, etc.)

Al

randya

I give them plenty of room, either when following or passing. I also look for specific indicators, such as turn signals. I can't say that I pay any specific attention to cyclists' heads. If anything, I'd be more likely to look at their wheels for a possible indication of a turn without signalling, and not at their heads.

TrekRider

I use a bar-end mirror on my Trek Navigator and it is like American Express; I won't leave home without it.

On my road bike, I use a glasses-mounted mirror. At first, about three months ago, it did block my peripheral vision to the left, but you adjust. For the first few minutes of each ride, it is a slight, but decreasing bother. After those first minutes, my eye adjusts and the mirror fades into the background. But, if it shifts accidentally, then it snaps back into view.

operator

If you think there aren't you are delusional.

Dahon.Steve

Agreed.

I also might want to add that what you see in the mirror is a lot closer than what you think. I've seen this "message" posted on car rear view mirrors and it's the same with that small bicycle mirror.

To be fair, you can "search" the entire road with the small rear view mirror but in a moment of crisis, it's highly unlikely you'll have the time to do this.

slvoid

Just to try it, plus give me a little more advantage, my gf picked up a blackburn rear view helmet mirror for 5 bucks. Right there on the back, "warning, objects are much closer than they appear." That tiny mirror is good enough to see in a small cone behind me, good enough to see if someone's bearing down on me close enough to run me over but not enough to see the whole road if it's wide. I'll still turn my head.

EDIT: Ok i mounted the mirror and tried it, the view is TINY compared to my old handle bar mirror and infinitely smaller compared to turning my head. But it's still pretty cute, I can keep people in check directly behind me.

randya

This may be true of some bicycle mirrors, particularly handlebar mounts, which are frequently convex for a wider field of view, but the 'take-a-look' mirror is a flat, undistorted mirror that shows you true distances.


Highly unlikely that you'd have the time or want to be turning your head to look in a moment of crisis, either.

Roughstuff

HUH? I don't know what kind of roads you are riding on, but i can see cars coming hundreds of feet behind me with my mirror, and by the time they have arrived, I have been glancing repeatedly to see how they responded to my presence. I don't need to turn my head around; I can make them aware that I see them by waving them by with my left hand, which I often do.

Certainly the cars are closer when riding in urban areas. But then I like my mirror even MORE, since I do not have to turn my head and take my eyes off the road.

roughstuff

Roughstuff

This point is relevant in several respects. Correct: if it is hard to glance in your rear view mirror because of bobbing and weaving traffic, it is most certainly silly to turn your head around and lose contact with whats going on in front of you at that moment, as well.

Second, this emphasizes the problem with hand signals, especially (again) in urban traffic/bike lanes/left turn lanes/whatever. The reason they got rid of hand signals for cars is that you had to remove your hand from the steering mechanism at the very moment ya needed it the most!!!. The argument goes double and triple for bicycles since your BRAKES are on the handlebars as well.

To me, a rear view mirror makes you master of the road. I don't own the road and I don't want to (to me, trucks can, do and should own the road). I am master of the road however: I have far more mobility than any other vehicle, and a rear view mirror allows me to exploit that to the max.

roughstuff

AndrewP

Motorists are more likely to notice people who look directly at them (eye to eye contact). That is why it is necessary to look over your shoulder even if you have a mirror.

randya

How about: "I, Andrew P., believe motorists are more likely to notice people who look directly at them (eye to eye contact). That is why I think it is necessary to look over my shoulder whether or not I'm using a mirror."

I, Randy A., believe that this is a matter of opinion and would rather rely on my mirror, which I find very effective, thus eliminating the need to risk looking back at all, other than in the mirror.

IMO, if you are actually spending the time to be certain that you are making eye contact with the motorists behind you, you are not paying enough attention to the road in front of you, and you are bound to crash needlessly sooner or later...