Red Light Running
10-08-09, 07:41 PM
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Red Light Running
I made a post in SSFG about this, as a thread came up about running red lights with a PSA linked.
My post is here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...94&postcount=7
A picture is included.
Basically, I want to know if it is legal to go through on a red, considering the bike lane is not broken outside of the crosswalk. There is another T intersection composed with stop signs, and it has the same thing. I am not a threat to anyone turning onto Murray Boulevard nor am I obstructing traffic, so is it legal?
Thank you for any information regarding this!
My post is here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...94&postcount=7
A picture is included.
Basically, I want to know if it is legal to go through on a red, considering the bike lane is not broken outside of the crosswalk. There is another T intersection composed with stop signs, and it has the same thing. I am not a threat to anyone turning onto Murray Boulevard nor am I obstructing traffic, so is it legal?
Thank you for any information regarding this!
10-08-09, 07:52 PM
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Of course it is illegal. The outside lane is painted thru too, but vehicles there must stop as well.
You are a potential hazard to pedestrians.
It is your choice to break the law or not and some can probably do it with reasonable safety (not that that is all laws are about). But don't try and justify the behavior.
You are a potential hazard to pedestrians.
It is your choice to break the law or not and some can probably do it with reasonable safety (not that that is all laws are about). But don't try and justify the behavior.
Last edited by noisebeam; 10-08-09 at 09:10 PM.
10-08-09, 08:16 PM
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It is always illegal to run red lights, at least in PA and I would imagine in most if not all states. There's a similar type of intersection near me. We were stopped at a red light at the | part of the T. When our light turned green, we started into the intersection to make a left, and wouldn't you know it, some ignorant idiot on a bike blew through the red light right in front of us. He could have been killed, except for my wife's fast reaction (she was driving).
I am increasingly of the belief that other cyclists are as much, if not more of a danger to us than motorists.
I am increasingly of the belief that other cyclists are as much, if not more of a danger to us than motorists.
10-08-09, 08:20 PM
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It's a real simple thing to remember, never mind all the rationalizations you may get from other riders:
YOU
CANNOT
RUN
A
RED
LIGHT
WHILE
ON
A
BIKE!
You may survive (& even thrive) for a while doing this; sooner or later, it WILL bite you in the azz.
YOU
CANNOT
RUN
A
RED
LIGHT
WHILE
ON
A
BIKE!
You may survive (& even thrive) for a while doing this; sooner or later, it WILL bite you in the azz.
10-08-09, 08:28 PM
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It is always illegal to run red lights, at least in PA and I would imagine in most if not all states. There's a similar type of intersection near me. We were stopped at a red light at the | part of the T. When our light turned green, we started into the intersection to make a left, and wouldn't you know it, some ignorant idiot on a bike blew through the red light right in front of us. He could have been killed, except for my wife's fast reaction (she was driving).
I am increasingly of the belief that other cyclists are as much, if not more of a danger to us than motorists.
I am increasingly of the belief that other cyclists are as much, if not more of a danger to us than motorists.
10-08-09, 08:31 PM
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Yeah, I would never run a red light turning left from the | portion of the T. I was curious about the right side bike lane in the picture, as it is not in the way of anything and the lane does not break.
Thank you for the input so far!
(Also, regarding pedestrians in the area, there are next to none at the intersection.)
They tried to pass that law in Oregon, and it failed. 
My thread title may be a bit inappropriate for what I am asking about. It is the right side bike lane, without breaking through the intersection, that I am curious about going through on a red light. I never run red lights outside of this T intersection. I have when I am in a hurry, but it is a rare thing for me.
Thank you for the input so far!
(Also, regarding pedestrians in the area, there are next to none at the intersection.)
My thread title may be a bit inappropriate for what I am asking about. It is the right side bike lane, without breaking through the intersection, that I am curious about going through on a red light. I never run red lights outside of this T intersection. I have when I am in a hurry, but it is a rare thing for me.
Last edited by PluperfectArson; 10-08-09 at 08:34 PM.
10-08-09, 09:06 PM
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In NC, motorcycles can't trip the light sensors so it's legal to run the light after some form of "Mother-May-I." I'll be damned if I'm going to sit there on a bicycle, legal or not. We don't have bike lanes though, so this may not be pertinent.
10-08-09, 09:14 PM
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Yeah, I would never run a red light turning left from the | portion of the T. I was curious about the right side bike lane in the picture, as it is not in the way of anything and the lane does not break.
Thank you for the input so far!
(Also, regarding pedestrians in the area, there are next to none at the intersection.)
They tried to pass that law in Oregon, and it failed.
My thread title may be a bit inappropriate for what I am asking about. It is the right side bike lane, without breaking through the intersection, that I am curious about going through on a red light. I never run red lights outside of this T intersection. I have when I am in a hurry, but it is a rare thing for me.
Thank you for the input so far!
(Also, regarding pedestrians in the area, there are next to none at the intersection.)
They tried to pass that law in Oregon, and it failed.
My thread title may be a bit inappropriate for what I am asking about. It is the right side bike lane, without breaking through the intersection, that I am curious about going through on a red light. I never run red lights outside of this T intersection. I have when I am in a hurry, but it is a rare thing for me.
10-08-09, 09:17 PM
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In the Florida Streets Smart booklet it pretty much says the same thing as sadly not all induction coil sensors pickup either bicycles or motorcycles. Although personally I would prefer to make a right hand turn, hook a U-turn come back to the intersection and make a final right turn. Might be a little longer, but I think that in the long run that it would be safer.
10-08-09, 09:55 PM
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Legal, no? Inventive, yes!
If you get caught, you could always mention it was only your high level concern for pedestrian safety that kept you on the street rather than making giant bunny hops on and off the sidewalk. My sister ducked a ticket by getting the patrolman laughing.
If you get caught, you could always mention it was only your high level concern for pedestrian safety that kept you on the street rather than making giant bunny hops on and off the sidewalk. My sister ducked a ticket by getting the patrolman laughing.
10-08-09, 10:37 PM
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Ok. I've seen and heard the Idaho argument enough. Are you in Idaho? If yes, the law applies. If not, the law does not apply. How is this difficult? Go ahead and tell the judge - It is legal in Idaho, when NOT in Idaho. Seriously, when did efficiency become more important than safety? I'd rather get there alive, then die from my own stupidity.
I have a better question, would you proceed if you were in a car? If not, then you should probably STOP!
I have a better question, would you proceed if you were in a car? If not, then you should probably STOP!
10-08-09, 11:08 PM
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My thread title may be a bit inappropriate for what I am asking about. It is the right side bike lane, without breaking through the intersection, that I am curious about going through on a red light. I never run red lights outside of this T intersection. I have when I am in a hurry, but it is a rare thing for me.
10-08-09, 11:29 PM
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This thread makes me sound like I am gung ** about blowing reds!
I am not at all, was just curious about the deal with the bike lane on the far right, wondering if it has special privileges during a red.
10-08-09, 11:43 PM
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Go for it. Believe it or not, pedestrians are horrified when they see a bicycle coming at them. Just ring you bell and keep going. That's what I normally do.
Around my neck of the woods, pedestrians expect us to run lights. It's just funny. When I'm feeling nice (actually when I see lots of cross traffic), and can't run the light, I'll begin slowing down. The pedestrians crossing the street sees me in their peripheral and they immediately come to a complete stop mid-step, yielding to me.
If I don't go, they give me a pissed off look because I made them stop for nothing.
Around my neck of the woods, pedestrians expect us to run lights. It's just funny. When I'm feeling nice (actually when I see lots of cross traffic), and can't run the light, I'll begin slowing down. The pedestrians crossing the street sees me in their peripheral and they immediately come to a complete stop mid-step, yielding to me.
If I don't go, they give me a pissed off look because I made them stop for nothing.
10-09-09, 12:09 AM
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The websites for Oregon and the City of Portland have some good resources summarizing their laws related to bicyclists, if you're looking for some exciting reading.
Oregon Statutes Pertaining to Pedestrians and Bicycles
https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEP...tutes_2008.pdf
Portland City Code Title 16 Vehicles and Traffic (Parts Pertaining to Bicycles)
https://www.portlandonline.com/TRANSP...=71947&c=34814
To sum up (granted I just skimmed them), bicycles are considered vehicles for the purpose of vehicle laws with very few exceptions, and I didn't see any exceptions stating that it's ok for bicycles to blow red lights at T intersections.
Oregon Statutes Pertaining to Pedestrians and Bicycles
https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEP...tutes_2008.pdf
Portland City Code Title 16 Vehicles and Traffic (Parts Pertaining to Bicycles)
https://www.portlandonline.com/TRANSP...=71947&c=34814
To sum up (granted I just skimmed them), bicycles are considered vehicles for the purpose of vehicle laws with very few exceptions, and I didn't see any exceptions stating that it's ok for bicycles to blow red lights at T intersections.
10-09-09, 12:32 AM
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Yes, the top of the T on the far right side, where the bike lane ceases to break at the intersection (except during the crosswalk).
This thread makes me sound like I am gung ** about blowing reds! I am not at all, was just curious about the deal with the bike lane on the far right, wondering if it has special privileges during a red.
This thread makes me sound like I am gung ** about blowing reds!
I am not at all, was just curious about the deal with the bike lane on the far right, wondering if it has special privileges during a red.
10-09-09, 07:22 AM
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Red lights are different... you have to stop and yield, but you can't proceed into the intersection until the light turns green.
For the "Idaho Stop" law, you still have to slow, scan for pedestrians and crossing traffic, and yield right of way to them if any are present. So you still have to stop for any crossing traffic. There's an old saw which says, "a yield without a stop can be safe, a stop without a yield is still dangerous."
So... if you plan to make a habit of running stop signs and traffic signals, always be sure to scan and yield to any crossing traffic (as well as pedestrians) before you do so.
10-09-09, 07:36 AM
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In my area, there is a T intersection with a guard rail at the top of the T, no sidewalks, and a straight through bike lane that parallels the top of the T.
There are no peds, and no way a car could go straight. I run the red light.
In this case there is no one I pose a threat to, no way no how.
The light controls when motorists coming off the freeway around a tight 180 degree bend that ends at the base of the T may enter the perpendicular street at the top of the T. No motorist can make that bend at anything higher than about 25-30MPH, thus they approach the light at a safe speed and are not likely to run through the intersection, cross 4 lanes, and ram into the guard rail.
I believe I am quite safe running that light.
There are no peds, and no way a car could go straight. I run the red light.
In this case there is no one I pose a threat to, no way no how.
The light controls when motorists coming off the freeway around a tight 180 degree bend that ends at the base of the T may enter the perpendicular street at the top of the T. No motorist can make that bend at anything higher than about 25-30MPH, thus they approach the light at a safe speed and are not likely to run through the intersection, cross 4 lanes, and ram into the guard rail.
I believe I am quite safe running that light.
10-09-09, 07:38 AM
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In your linked post you say there is no break, however from what I see there is a break where the crosswalk crosses it. To me that mans you stop here just like the cars do and proceed when the light turns green. Bike lane/car lane, no difference.
10-09-09, 10:33 AM
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+1 on being illegal.
Same deal with this intersection: https://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&...273.39,,0,7.91
The far right stripe marks the bicycle lane.
I would routinely run it though. You can tell how few pedestrians there are in this little piece of suburbia - not even a sidewalk.
Same deal with this intersection: https://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&...273.39,,0,7.91
The far right stripe marks the bicycle lane.
I would routinely run it though. You can tell how few pedestrians there are in this little piece of suburbia - not even a sidewalk.
10-09-09, 11:12 AM
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WHEN TRAFFIC LIGHTS DON'T TURN
Always stop and wait for red lights. You not only ensure your safety, but also increase respect for cyclists as law-abiding road users.
But some traffic lights don't turn green until they receive a signal from a metal detector buried in the pavement. A bicycle doesn't have enough metal to make many of them work.
Recognize the detector by a square or octagonal pattern of thin lines in the pavement, where slots were cut for the detecting wires. The detector is most sensitive if you ride along one of the wires.
If your bike doesn't trip the detector, you have to wait for a car to do it, or else you have to go through the red light. Going through the red isn't against the law, because the light is defective.
Detectors are made that work for bicycles, at little or no additional cost. Federal design guidelines exist for these detectors. If you put enough pressure on your local and state government, bicyclists can avoid the crashes and the city can avoid the lawsuits which may follow.
Always stop and wait for red lights. You not only ensure your safety, but also increase respect for cyclists as law-abiding road users.
But some traffic lights don't turn green until they receive a signal from a metal detector buried in the pavement. A bicycle doesn't have enough metal to make many of them work.
Recognize the detector by a square or octagonal pattern of thin lines in the pavement, where slots were cut for the detecting wires. The detector is most sensitive if you ride along one of the wires.
If your bike doesn't trip the detector, you have to wait for a car to do it, or else you have to go through the red light. Going through the red isn't against the law, because the light is defective.
Detectors are made that work for bicycles, at little or no additional cost. Federal design guidelines exist for these detectors. If you put enough pressure on your local and state government, bicyclists can avoid the crashes and the city can avoid the lawsuits which may follow.
10-09-09, 11:15 AM
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Yes, the top of the T on the far right side, where the bike lane ceases to break at the intersection (except during the crosswalk).
This thread makes me sound like I am gung ** about blowing reds! I am not at all, was just curious about the deal with the bike lane on the far right, wondering if it has special privileges during a red.
This thread makes me sound like I am gung ** about blowing reds!
I am not at all, was just curious about the deal with the bike lane on the far right, wondering if it has special privileges during a red.