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  1. #1
    VFL For Life Velo Vol's Avatar
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    "Are women cyclists in more danger than men?"

    "Women cyclists make up a far higher proportion of deaths involving lorries than men. Why?"

    I assume "lorrry" = truck.

    In 2007, an internal report for Transport for London concluded women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by lorries because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver's blind spot.
    There's their first problem.

  2. #2
    Still can't climb
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    yes. i think it is the style of riding. less agressive.

    when i was just getting used to cycling on roads, i kept to the curb and had a lot more close calls. I find it safer to confidently take control of the traffic around me where it is necessary...take the lane, at lights and junctions place myself in front of cars so they have to wait until i have cleared, going into middle of the road to overtake rather than squeezing past lorries and buses on the inside. if i can't overtake i would just stop and wait rather than undertake.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

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  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    That's a huge generalization, IMO. I know a lot of female riders that are far more aggressive than I am- more prone to jump stoplights, assume drivers will obey hand signals, etc.

  4. #4
    Still can't climb
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    it may be a generalisation but it is more common for men to be more aggressive. why can't you generalise anyway. we are talking in general terms with stats.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

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  5. #5
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
    That's a huge generalization, IMO.
    possibly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
    I know a lot of female riders that are far more aggressive than I am- more prone to jump stoplights, assume drivers will obey hand signals, etc.
    another "huge generalization."

  6. #6
    VFL For Life Velo Vol's Avatar
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    I don't get the graphic. If there is a truck waiting at a stoplight, I simply stop behind it rather than trying to squeeze around it. What am I doing wrong?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Velo Vol View Post
    I don't get the graphic. If there is a truck waiting at a stoplight, I simply stop behind it rather than trying to squeeze around it. What am I doing wrong?

    you're not doing it wrong. that's the advice they keep putting out on safety ads. some people just don't know it is dangerous.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

    No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    another "huge generalization."
    No, just being anecdotal- pointing out that saying 'because men are more aggressive' isn't THE answer.

  9. #9
    Senior Member hopsing08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
    No, just being anecdotal- pointing out that saying 'because men are more aggressive' isn't THE answer.
    then what is THE answer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    you're not doing it wrong. that's the advice they keep putting out on safety ads. some people just don't know it is dangerous.
    Which is dangerous? "Filtering" ahead on the right side to get ahead of a vehicle stopped at light or waiting your turn behind them?

    Obviously I don't do much "city" riding because I don't see how passing people already stopped at a sign or light to get to the front of the line is going to do anything but piss them off.

  11. #11
    Ho-Jahm Hocam's Avatar
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    Depends on traffic.

    If it's kind of grid-lockish, like in a real city than you're probably better off filtering because you'll end up having to pass them soon anyway. It's safe to pass a truck if they're stopped at a red, you can predict by their lane position if they're turning or going straight and their accelerate slowly anyway.

    If it's a fast moving or country road and they'll be passing you in 50 feet anyway, stay behind but take the lane behind it. That way you can accelerate through the intersection at the trucks speed without the risk of a right hook from a driver looking to pass you, and are more visible to drivers looking to turn left coming from the opposite direction.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik B View Post
    Which is dangerous? "Filtering" ahead on the right side to get ahead of a vehicle stopped at light or waiting your turn behind them?

    Obviously I don't do much "city" riding because I don't see how passing people already stopped at a sign or light to get to the front of the line is going to do anything but piss them off.

    my order of preferance

    1) wait behind (the hold up is not for long. lights or junction situation)
    2) filter but on the outside of the truck as in the picture (long stationary traffic jam)
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

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  13. #13
    VFL For Life Velo Vol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik B View Post
    Obviously I don't do much "city" riding because I don't see how passing people already stopped at a sign or light to get to the front of the line is going to do anything but piss them off.
    Ticking off truck drivers is a real good practice.

  14. #14
    Kaffee Nazi danarnold's Avatar
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    That's probably because women tend to ride with other Lauries more than men do. Plus, they don't know how to spell 'Laurie' and they ride on the wrong side of the road.

    I wouldn't mind riding with Laurie, however you spell it. Maybe I could teach her something, like how to run a red light. OTOH maybe there's something to this threat of death when riding with Lauries.

  15. #15
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Many of the fatalities involving cyclists happen in collisions with a heavy goods vehicle (HGV). This year, seven of the eight people killed by lorries in London have been women.

    Considering that women make only 28% of the UK's cycling journeys, this seems extremely high.
    Given the very small number of people who have been killed by trucks in London, period, sampling error is as reasonable an explanation for the high proportion of women killed by trucks as any other.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    Given the very small number of people who have been killed by trucks in London, period, sampling error is as reasonable an explanation for the high proportion of women killed by trucks as any other.
    i think it is a pattern over years. i've heard this before.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

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  17. #17
    Senior Member hopsing08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velo Vol View Post
    Ticking off truck drivers is a real good practice.
    at least they know where you are...
    A long life may not be good enough but a good life is long enough.
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  18. #18
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    There was a much-publicized cyclist death in DC that happened this way.

    And, yup, the cyclist was a female.

  19. #19
    Kaffee Nazi danarnold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    yes. i think it is the style of riding. less agressive.

    when i was just getting used to cycling on roads, i kept to the curb and had a lot more close calls. I find it safer to confidently take control of the traffic around me where it is necessary...take the lane, at lights and junctions place myself in front of cars so they have to wait until i have cleared, going into middle of the road to overtake rather than squeezing past lorries and buses on the inside. if i can't overtake i would just stop and wait rather than undertake.
    Whatever the cause, if any, it isn't because the rider is a woman. Motorists tend to give greater deference to women according to studies which include a nonscientific one done by John Stoessel (sp).

    I agree that riding aggressively in vehicular manner is safer than timid riding where one is afraid to take the lane or the cyclist squeezes in and moves up on the right (in the U.S.) when traffic is stopped and may not be seen. But what reliable information is out there that claims women do this more than men?

  20. #20
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danarnold View Post
    I agree that riding aggressively in vehicular manner is safer than timid riding where one is afraid to take the lane or the cyclist squeezes in and moves up on the right (in the U.S.) when traffic is stopped and may not be seen. But what reliable information is out there that claims women do this more than men?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8296971.stm ? It was in the opening post...

    In 2007, an internal report for Transport for London concluded women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by lorries because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver's blind spot.

  21. #21
    Still can't climb
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    Quote Originally Posted by danarnold View Post
    Whatever the cause, if any, it isn't because the rider is a woman. Motorists tend to give greater deference to women according to studies which include a nonscientific one done by John Stoessel (sp).

    I agree that riding aggressively in vehicular manner is safer than timid riding where one is afraid to take the lane or the cyclist squeezes in and moves up on the right (in the U.S.) when traffic is stopped and may not be seen. But what reliable information is out there that claims women do this more than men?
    my own eyes.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

    No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack

  22. #22
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    i think it is a pattern over years. i've heard this before.
    I forgot to mention that a historical analysis would have been far more informative.

    I don't know that I buy this idea that women cyclists are in more danger because they don't run red lights, but there are certainly any number of sociological factors that would explain differing behavior by men and women cyclists that might put the women in greater danger under these particular circumstances.

  23. #23
    Senior Member gabdy's Avatar
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  24. #24
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grolby View Post
    I don't know that I buy this idea that women cyclists are in more danger because they don't run red lights,...
    How I think it applies is that it's dangerous enough right after a light turns green that sharing the intersection at that moment is riskier than going whenever it's clear.

    Add to that waiting in a dangerous location next to a large vehicle (what this study looked at was cyclists vs. trucks) and it looks like waiting at a red isn't the safe thing to do.

  25. #25
    Let your bike be the tool cranky old road's Avatar
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    I've heard that one tends to head toward what one's looking at. Perhaps lorry drivers tend to stare at female cyclists' derrieres?
    Never try to teach a pig to sing...

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