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Old 10-09-09, 12:08 PM   #1
Velo Vol 
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"Are women cyclists in more danger than men?"

"Women cyclists make up a far higher proportion of deaths involving lorries than men. Why?"

I assume "lorrry" = truck.

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In 2007, an internal report for Transport for London concluded women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by lorries because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver's blind spot.
There's their first problem.
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Old 10-09-09, 12:39 PM   #2
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yes. i think it is the style of riding. less agressive.

when i was just getting used to cycling on roads, i kept to the curb and had a lot more close calls. I find it safer to confidently take control of the traffic around me where it is necessary...take the lane, at lights and junctions place myself in front of cars so they have to wait until i have cleared, going into middle of the road to overtake rather than squeezing past lorries and buses on the inside. if i can't overtake i would just stop and wait rather than undertake.
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Old 10-09-09, 12:48 PM   #3
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That's a huge generalization, IMO. I know a lot of female riders that are far more aggressive than I am- more prone to jump stoplights, assume drivers will obey hand signals, etc.
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Old 10-09-09, 12:50 PM   #4
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it may be a generalisation but it is more common for men to be more aggressive. why can't you generalise anyway. we are talking in general terms with stats.
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Old 10-09-09, 12:51 PM   #5
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That's a huge generalization, IMO.
possibly.

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I know a lot of female riders that are far more aggressive than I am- more prone to jump stoplights, assume drivers will obey hand signals, etc.
another "huge generalization."
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Old 10-09-09, 12:52 PM   #6
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I don't get the graphic. If there is a truck waiting at a stoplight, I simply stop behind it rather than trying to squeeze around it. What am I doing wrong?

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Old 10-09-09, 12:56 PM   #7
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I don't get the graphic. If there is a truck waiting at a stoplight, I simply stop behind it rather than trying to squeeze around it. What am I doing wrong?

you're not doing it wrong. that's the advice they keep putting out on safety ads. some people just don't know it is dangerous.
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Old 10-09-09, 01:03 PM   #8
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another "huge generalization."
No, just being anecdotal- pointing out that saying 'because men are more aggressive' isn't THE answer.
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Old 10-09-09, 01:26 PM   #9
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No, just being anecdotal- pointing out that saying 'because men are more aggressive' isn't THE answer.
then what is THE answer?
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Old 10-09-09, 02:00 PM   #10
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you're not doing it wrong. that's the advice they keep putting out on safety ads. some people just don't know it is dangerous.
Which is dangerous? "Filtering" ahead on the right side to get ahead of a vehicle stopped at light or waiting your turn behind them?

Obviously I don't do much "city" riding because I don't see how passing people already stopped at a sign or light to get to the front of the line is going to do anything but piss them off.
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Old 10-09-09, 02:08 PM   #11
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Depends on traffic.

If it's kind of grid-lockish, like in a real city than you're probably better off filtering because you'll end up having to pass them soon anyway. It's safe to pass a truck if they're stopped at a red, you can predict by their lane position if they're turning or going straight and their accelerate slowly anyway.

If it's a fast moving or country road and they'll be passing you in 50 feet anyway, stay behind but take the lane behind it. That way you can accelerate through the intersection at the trucks speed without the risk of a right hook from a driver looking to pass you, and are more visible to drivers looking to turn left coming from the opposite direction.
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Old 10-09-09, 02:12 PM   #12
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Which is dangerous? "Filtering" ahead on the right side to get ahead of a vehicle stopped at light or waiting your turn behind them?

Obviously I don't do much "city" riding because I don't see how passing people already stopped at a sign or light to get to the front of the line is going to do anything but piss them off.

my order of preferance

1) wait behind (the hold up is not for long. lights or junction situation)
2) filter but on the outside of the truck as in the picture (long stationary traffic jam)
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Old 10-09-09, 02:17 PM   #13
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Obviously I don't do much "city" riding because I don't see how passing people already stopped at a sign or light to get to the front of the line is going to do anything but piss them off.
Ticking off truck drivers is a real good practice.
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Old 10-09-09, 02:29 PM   #14
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That's probably because women tend to ride with other Lauries more than men do. Plus, they don't know how to spell 'Laurie' and they ride on the wrong side of the road.

I wouldn't mind riding with Laurie, however you spell it. Maybe I could teach her something, like how to run a red light. OTOH maybe there's something to this threat of death when riding with Lauries.
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Old 10-09-09, 02:34 PM   #15
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Many of the fatalities involving cyclists happen in collisions with a heavy goods vehicle (HGV). This year, seven of the eight people killed by lorries in London have been women.

Considering that women make only 28% of the UK's cycling journeys, this seems extremely high.
Given the very small number of people who have been killed by trucks in London, period, sampling error is as reasonable an explanation for the high proportion of women killed by trucks as any other.
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Old 10-09-09, 02:37 PM   #16
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Given the very small number of people who have been killed by trucks in London, period, sampling error is as reasonable an explanation for the high proportion of women killed by trucks as any other.
i think it is a pattern over years. i've heard this before.
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Old 10-09-09, 02:40 PM   #17
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Ticking off truck drivers is a real good practice.
at least they know where you are...
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Old 10-09-09, 02:43 PM   #18
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There was a much-publicized cyclist death in DC that happened this way.

And, yup, the cyclist was a female.
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Old 10-09-09, 03:08 PM   #19
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yes. i think it is the style of riding. less agressive.

when i was just getting used to cycling on roads, i kept to the curb and had a lot more close calls. I find it safer to confidently take control of the traffic around me where it is necessary...take the lane, at lights and junctions place myself in front of cars so they have to wait until i have cleared, going into middle of the road to overtake rather than squeezing past lorries and buses on the inside. if i can't overtake i would just stop and wait rather than undertake.
Whatever the cause, if any, it isn't because the rider is a woman. Motorists tend to give greater deference to women according to studies which include a nonscientific one done by John Stoessel (sp).

I agree that riding aggressively in vehicular manner is safer than timid riding where one is afraid to take the lane or the cyclist squeezes in and moves up on the right (in the U.S.) when traffic is stopped and may not be seen. But what reliable information is out there that claims women do this more than men?
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Old 10-09-09, 03:36 PM   #20
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I agree that riding aggressively in vehicular manner is safer than timid riding where one is afraid to take the lane or the cyclist squeezes in and moves up on the right (in the U.S.) when traffic is stopped and may not be seen. But what reliable information is out there that claims women do this more than men?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8296971.stm ? It was in the opening post...

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In 2007, an internal report for Transport for London concluded women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by lorries because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver's blind spot.
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Old 10-09-09, 04:14 PM   #21
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Whatever the cause, if any, it isn't because the rider is a woman. Motorists tend to give greater deference to women according to studies which include a nonscientific one done by John Stoessel (sp).

I agree that riding aggressively in vehicular manner is safer than timid riding where one is afraid to take the lane or the cyclist squeezes in and moves up on the right (in the U.S.) when traffic is stopped and may not be seen. But what reliable information is out there that claims women do this more than men?
my own eyes.
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Old 10-09-09, 04:49 PM   #22
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i think it is a pattern over years. i've heard this before.
I forgot to mention that a historical analysis would have been far more informative.

I don't know that I buy this idea that women cyclists are in more danger because they don't run red lights, but there are certainly any number of sociological factors that would explain differing behavior by men and women cyclists that might put the women in greater danger under these particular circumstances.
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Old 10-09-09, 04:53 PM   #23
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This?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wT7zM8XgXQ

J/K
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Old 10-09-09, 05:17 PM   #24
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I don't know that I buy this idea that women cyclists are in more danger because they don't run red lights,...
How I think it applies is that it's dangerous enough right after a light turns green that sharing the intersection at that moment is riskier than going whenever it's clear.

Add to that waiting in a dangerous location next to a large vehicle (what this study looked at was cyclists vs. trucks) and it looks like waiting at a red isn't the safe thing to do.
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Old 10-09-09, 05:56 PM   #25
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I've heard that one tends to head toward what one's looking at. Perhaps lorry drivers tend to stare at female cyclists' derrieres?
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