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  1. #1
    Medicinal Cyclist Daytrip's Avatar
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    Some Stuff I Didn't Know

    At the risk of getting mocked by botto (again) for posting a link to an "interesting" article, I thought this one was rather thought-provoking.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2232555/
    Let your freak flag fly.

  2. #2
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    (inappropriate language removed by mod) Thanks for posting it.
    I'm glad to see the crackdown, frankly. It's gotten pretty bad when motorists always stop and wait at intersections because they assume I'm going to blow through the stopsign like all the other cyclists in my area. If enough of us continue to ride irresponsibly, they could start mandating registration, licensing.
    If you liked that article, you might also like Hurst's Cyclist's Manifesto. Talks some about thei history of the bicycle, the automobile, and the League of American Wheelmen.
    Last edited by DrPete; 10-16-09 at 06:41 PM.

  3. #3
    Faster than yesterday
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    This gets talked about in A&S a lot. There really isn't much reason for stop signs, rather than yield signs. It isn't like any more than a small fraction of drivers come to a complete stop, and that shouldn't be a citable offense in itself. As long as right-of-way gets sorted and everyone goes on their way, who cares, other than the city treasury? Failing to yield, of course, should be ticketed, as should blowing through unsafely. That's the part that is hard to define. A "full stop" is easy to outline. Never mind the actual purpose of the rule, the law is the law and you can't break it. Stupid, in this case, and enforcement is more about cop boredom and city income than anything else.

    I think visibility is also better on a bike than for the driver of most cars. As for me, I agree that stop signs are impractical, and mostly present in unnecessary locations anyway (seriously, they very carefully consider signals, but signs are cheap, so why not just put them everywhere?), so I'm certainly treating them as yields when I deem it safe to do so, i.e. when there is no other traffic at the intersection. If I get one or two tickets in my life I'll be annoyed and deal with it, but I think most people who get ticketed are the types who blow through signs without even slowing. Again, doing that is stupid.
    Last edited by tadawdy; 10-16-09 at 02:29 PM.

  4. #4
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Glad to see slate's looking out for those oppressed drivers... those poor souls.
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  5. #5
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadawdy View Post
    This gets talked about in A&S a lot. There really isn't much reason for stop signs, rather than yield signs. It isn't like any more than a small fraction of drivers come to a complete stop, and that shouldn't be a citable offense in itself. As long as right-of-way gets sorted and everyone goes on their way, who cares, other than the city treasury? Failing to yield, of course, should be ticketed, as should blowing through unsafely. That's the part that is hard to define. A "full stop" is easy to outline. Never mind the actual purpose of the rule, the law is the law and you can't break it. Stupid, in this case, and enforcement is more about cop boredom and city income than anything else.

    I think visibility is also better on a bike than for the driver of most cars. As for me, I agree that stop signs are impractical, and mostly present in unnecessary locations anyway (seriously, they very carefully consider signals, but signs are cheap, so why not just put them everywhere?), so I'm certainly treating them as yields when I deem it safe to do so, i.e. when there is no other traffic at the intersection. If I get one or two tickets in my life I'll be annoyed and deal with it, but I think most people who get ticketed are the types who blow through signs without even slowing. Again, doing that is stupid.
    really?

  6. #6
    Medicinal Cyclist Daytrip's Avatar
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    See?
    Let your freak flag fly.

  7. #7
    Legs; OK! Lungs; not! bobthib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daytrip View Post
    At the risk of getting mocked by botto (again) for posting a link to an "interesting" article, I thought this one was rather thought-provoking.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2232555/
    Timely and appropriate given my Dr Lic post!
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  8. #8
    Legs; OK! Lungs; not! bobthib's Avatar
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    Daytrip, do you ride the Mohawk/Hudson bike-hike trail? Was in the Capitol District (my hometown) and did a very nice 37 miler with my sister in the Latham/Schenectady segment. Most of it was very nice and empty. Some rough segments is Schenectady and a few "congested" areas around parks. All in all, a nice ride.
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  9. #9
    ..... Jynx's Avatar
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    On a recent ride I did 45mph down a hill on a 30mph road then did 40mph through a stop sign and took the whole lane going 45mph down another hill. The whole time there was a police officer behind me. No ticket, no lights, nothing said over his loud speaker. When the time was right I moved to the side and let him pass. Riding smart and not causing traffic problems is greater than obeying some road signs.

  10. #10
    Legs; OK! Lungs; not! bobthib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
    On a recent ride I did 45mph down a hill on a 30mph road then did 40mph through a stop sign and took the whole lane going 45mph down another hill. The whole time there was a police officer behind me. No ticket, no lights, nothing said over his loud speaker. When the time was right I moved to the side and let him pass. Riding smart and not causing traffic problems is greater than obeying some road signs.
    I don't consider any of that "riding smart" even if you do have a police escort. I suppose you don't wear a helmet either.
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  11. #11
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    I thought this was discussed in another thread. in most states bicylcles are considered Vehicles and therefore subject to vehicle laws. if you wish to disobey these laws then you deserve a ticket.

    you may also wish to know that as recently as the early 2000s Mass considered rollerskaters and therefore rollerbladers and skateboarders and vehicles.
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  12. #12
    ..... Jynx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobthib View Post
    I don't consider any of that "riding smart" even if you do have a police escort. I suppose you don't wear a helmet either.
    I do wear a helmet not that that has anything to do with it. In that situation it made more sense to go over the speed limit (the speed of traffic) and take the lane then to slow down and have cars buzz by you on a narrow road with 1 lane in each direction. The stop sign is also at the bottom of a hill right before another hill. It is safer to go through it ( can see all other cars at the intersection and if it is safe to go through) instead of stopping and causing a traffic jam as I climb back up the next hill. The time it takes for a bicycle to reaccelerate sometimes causes more problems then just going through certain things. If the cop felt it was unsafe and ticketed me I would be fine with it. My safety is greater than a $50 ticket.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobthib View Post
    OMG, how I love this bar!
    Yep, fify.

  14. #14
    It's ALL base... DScott's Avatar
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    A&S is that way --------->

  15. #15
    Medicinal Cyclist Daytrip's Avatar
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    No, I haven't ridden the Mohawk/Hudson Trail but it sounds great.

    Mostly I stick to the back roads here in the valley, though it's fun to head up into the Tug Hill region and the western Adirondacks for longer rides. If you time it right, the roads are pretty quiet. I'm really hoping for some decent riding weather over the next month. We're not getting off to a great start, but it could be back up in the '80s before you know it.

    Anyway, on the article, it seems to me that it's advocating some clarity in the law, rather than taking sides on the issue. I blow stop signs all the time when I'm the only vehicle on the road. Pretty stupid to stop out on some lonely crossroads when there's nobody else around. In town, I try to obey the law. And I try to stay out of town.
    Let your freak flag fly.

  16. #16
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    "If there weren't cars, we wouldn't need stop signs,"
    I imagine if every car was replaced by one or more bicycles (they gotta get around somehow), that would not be true.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  17. #17
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadawdy View Post
    This gets talked about in A&S a lot.
    Correct.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  18. #18
    Sailing Cyclist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
    On a recent ride I did 45mph down a hill on a 30mph road then did 40mph through a stop sign and took the whole lane going 45mph down another hill. The whole time there was a police officer behind me. No ticket, no lights, nothing said over his loud speaker. When the time was right I moved to the side and let him pass. Riding smart and not causing traffic problems is greater than obeying some road signs.
    The cop was probably damned impressed. At 45mph I start to fudge myself.

  19. #19
    Elitest Murray Owner Mos6502's Avatar
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    Article: How do we get bikers to obey traffic laws?

    You probably did not know about this thread discussing the same article.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    I imagine if every car was replaced by one or more bicycles (they gotta get around somehow), that would not be true.
    I'm no fan of 4-way stops, so I'd be all for replacing them with lights, and bikes can handle yield signs just fine. I'm not sure why motor vehicles can't handle that situation.

    Also, you'd need about 6 times as many bikes if you left similarly sized infrastructure.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Town View Post
    The cop was probably damned impressed. At 45mph I start to fudge myself.
    It's awesome. How controlled it feels depends a lot on your bike.

  22. #22
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crhilton View Post
    I'm no fan of 4-way stops, so I'd be all for replacing them with lights, and bikes can handle yield signs just fine. I'm not sure why motor vehicles can't handle that situation.

    Also, you'd need about 6 times as many bikes if you left similarly sized infrastructure.
    Ain't that the truth!!!

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