Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-16-09, 01:53 PM   #1
Daytrip
Medicinal Cyclist
Thread Starter
 
Daytrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Mohawk Valley/Adks, NYS
Bikes: 2003 Klein Q Carbon Race; 2009 Giant OCR-1
Posts: 2,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some Stuff I Didn't Know

At the risk of getting mocked by botto (again) for posting a link to an "interesting" article, I thought this one was rather thought-provoking.

http://www.slate.com/id/2232555/
Daytrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 02:14 PM   #2
calamarichris
Horse Categorie
 
calamarichris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Bikes: '09 Felt F55, '84 Masi Cran Criterium, (2)'86 Schwinn Pelotons, '86 Look Equippe Hinault, '09 Globe Live 3 (dogtaxi)
Posts: 5,740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
(inappropriate language removed by mod) Thanks for posting it.
I'm glad to see the crackdown, frankly. It's gotten pretty bad when motorists always stop and wait at intersections because they assume I'm going to blow through the stopsign like all the other cyclists in my area. If enough of us continue to ride irresponsibly, they could start mandating registration, licensing.
If you liked that article, you might also like Hurst's Cyclist's Manifesto. Talks some about thei history of the bicycle, the automobile, and the League of American Wheelmen.

Last edited by DrPete; 10-16-09 at 06:41 PM.
calamarichris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 02:19 PM   #3
tadawdy
Faster than yesterday
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Evanston, IL
Bikes:
Posts: 1,510
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This gets talked about in A&S a lot. There really isn't much reason for stop signs, rather than yield signs. It isn't like any more than a small fraction of drivers come to a complete stop, and that shouldn't be a citable offense in itself. As long as right-of-way gets sorted and everyone goes on their way, who cares, other than the city treasury? Failing to yield, of course, should be ticketed, as should blowing through unsafely. That's the part that is hard to define. A "full stop" is easy to outline. Never mind the actual purpose of the rule, the law is the law and you can't break it. Stupid, in this case, and enforcement is more about cop boredom and city income than anything else.

I think visibility is also better on a bike than for the driver of most cars. As for me, I agree that stop signs are impractical, and mostly present in unnecessary locations anyway (seriously, they very carefully consider signals, but signs are cheap, so why not just put them everywhere?), so I'm certainly treating them as yields when I deem it safe to do so, i.e. when there is no other traffic at the intersection. If I get one or two tickets in my life I'll be annoyed and deal with it, but I think most people who get ticketed are the types who blow through signs without even slowing. Again, doing that is stupid.

Last edited by tadawdy; 10-16-09 at 02:29 PM.
tadawdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 02:31 PM   #4
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,665
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Glad to see slate's looking out for those oppressed drivers... those poor souls.
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 02:36 PM   #5
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 40,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadawdy View Post
This gets talked about in A&S a lot. There really isn't much reason for stop signs, rather than yield signs. It isn't like any more than a small fraction of drivers come to a complete stop, and that shouldn't be a citable offense in itself. As long as right-of-way gets sorted and everyone goes on their way, who cares, other than the city treasury? Failing to yield, of course, should be ticketed, as should blowing through unsafely. That's the part that is hard to define. A "full stop" is easy to outline. Never mind the actual purpose of the rule, the law is the law and you can't break it. Stupid, in this case, and enforcement is more about cop boredom and city income than anything else.

I think visibility is also better on a bike than for the driver of most cars. As for me, I agree that stop signs are impractical, and mostly present in unnecessary locations anyway (seriously, they very carefully consider signals, but signs are cheap, so why not just put them everywhere?), so I'm certainly treating them as yields when I deem it safe to do so, i.e. when there is no other traffic at the intersection. If I get one or two tickets in my life I'll be annoyed and deal with it, but I think most people who get ticketed are the types who blow through signs without even slowing. Again, doing that is stupid.
really?
botto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 02:38 PM   #6
Daytrip
Medicinal Cyclist
Thread Starter
 
Daytrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Mohawk Valley/Adks, NYS
Bikes: 2003 Klein Q Carbon Race; 2009 Giant OCR-1
Posts: 2,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
See?
Daytrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 02:41 PM   #7
bobthib
Legs; OK! Lungs; not!
 
bobthib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Bikes: ''09 Motobecane Immortal Pro (Yellow), '02 Diamondback Hybrid, '09 Lamborghini Viaggio, ''11 Cervelo P2
Posts: 2,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytrip View Post
At the risk of getting mocked by botto (again) for posting a link to an "interesting" article, I thought this one was rather thought-provoking.

http://www.slate.com/id/2232555/
Timely and appropriate given my Dr Lic post!
bobthib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 02:46 PM   #8
bobthib
Legs; OK! Lungs; not!
 
bobthib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Bikes: ''09 Motobecane Immortal Pro (Yellow), '02 Diamondback Hybrid, '09 Lamborghini Viaggio, ''11 Cervelo P2
Posts: 2,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Daytrip, do you ride the Mohawk/Hudson bike-hike trail? Was in the Capitol District (my hometown) and did a very nice 37 miler with my sister in the Latham/Schenectady segment. Most of it was very nice and empty. Some rough segments is Schenectady and a few "congested" areas around parks. All in all, a nice ride.
bobthib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 03:19 PM   #9
Jynx
.....
 
Jynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Bikes: 2006 Cannondale CAAD8
Posts: 4,816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
On a recent ride I did 45mph down a hill on a 30mph road then did 40mph through a stop sign and took the whole lane going 45mph down another hill. The whole time there was a police officer behind me. No ticket, no lights, nothing said over his loud speaker. When the time was right I moved to the side and let him pass. Riding smart and not causing traffic problems is greater than obeying some road signs.
__________________
Weight Listing Index (Feel Free to add to it!)

Buy your bike parts here
Jynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 03:26 PM   #10
bobthib
Legs; OK! Lungs; not!
 
bobthib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Bikes: ''09 Motobecane Immortal Pro (Yellow), '02 Diamondback Hybrid, '09 Lamborghini Viaggio, ''11 Cervelo P2
Posts: 2,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
On a recent ride I did 45mph down a hill on a 30mph road then did 40mph through a stop sign and took the whole lane going 45mph down another hill. The whole time there was a police officer behind me. No ticket, no lights, nothing said over his loud speaker. When the time was right I moved to the side and let him pass. Riding smart and not causing traffic problems is greater than obeying some road signs.
I don't consider any of that "riding smart" even if you do have a police escort. I suppose you don't wear a helmet either.
bobthib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 03:30 PM   #11
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Camp Hill, PA
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Posts: 22,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
I thought this was discussed in another thread. in most states bicylcles are considered Vehicles and therefore subject to vehicle laws. if you wish to disobey these laws then you deserve a ticket.

you may also wish to know that as recently as the early 2000s Mass considered rollerskaters and therefore rollerbladers and skateboarders and vehicles.
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 03:31 PM   #12
Jynx
.....
 
Jynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Bikes: 2006 Cannondale CAAD8
Posts: 4,816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthib View Post
I don't consider any of that "riding smart" even if you do have a police escort. I suppose you don't wear a helmet either.
I do wear a helmet not that that has anything to do with it. In that situation it made more sense to go over the speed limit (the speed of traffic) and take the lane then to slow down and have cars buzz by you on a narrow road with 1 lane in each direction. The stop sign is also at the bottom of a hill right before another hill. It is safer to go through it ( can see all other cars at the intersection and if it is safe to go through) instead of stopping and causing a traffic jam as I climb back up the next hill. The time it takes for a bicycle to reaccelerate sometimes causes more problems then just going through certain things. If the cop felt it was unsafe and ticketed me I would be fine with it. My safety is greater than a $50 ticket.
__________________
Weight Listing Index (Feel Free to add to it!)

Buy your bike parts here
Jynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 03:46 PM   #13
thompsonpost
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthib View Post
OMG, how I love this bar!
Yep, fify.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 04:09 PM   #14
DScott
It's ALL base...
 
DScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 6,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A&S is that way --------->
DScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 05:23 PM   #15
Daytrip
Medicinal Cyclist
Thread Starter
 
Daytrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Mohawk Valley/Adks, NYS
Bikes: 2003 Klein Q Carbon Race; 2009 Giant OCR-1
Posts: 2,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No, I haven't ridden the Mohawk/Hudson Trail but it sounds great.

Mostly I stick to the back roads here in the valley, though it's fun to head up into the Tug Hill region and the western Adirondacks for longer rides. If you time it right, the roads are pretty quiet. I'm really hoping for some decent riding weather over the next month. We're not getting off to a great start, but it could be back up in the '80s before you know it.

Anyway, on the article, it seems to me that it's advocating some clarity in the law, rather than taking sides on the issue. I blow stop signs all the time when I'm the only vehicle on the road. Pretty stupid to stop out on some lonely crossroads when there's nobody else around. In town, I try to obey the law. And I try to stay out of town.
Daytrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 05:43 PM   #16
urbanknight
In beaurocratic limbo
 
urbanknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback
Posts: 22,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
"If there weren't cars, we wouldn't need stop signs,"
I imagine if every car was replaced by one or more bicycles (they gotta get around somehow), that would not be true.
__________________
"Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)
urbanknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 06:44 PM   #17
DrPete 
Dirt-riding heretic
 
DrPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Bikes: Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadawdy View Post
This gets talked about in A&S a lot.
Correct.
__________________
"Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."
DrPete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 08:09 PM   #18
Old Town
Sailing Cyclist
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Key West, FL
Bikes: Kona mountain and hybrid. Other assorted junk.
Posts: 408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
On a recent ride I did 45mph down a hill on a 30mph road then did 40mph through a stop sign and took the whole lane going 45mph down another hill. The whole time there was a police officer behind me. No ticket, no lights, nothing said over his loud speaker. When the time was right I moved to the side and let him pass. Riding smart and not causing traffic problems is greater than obeying some road signs.
The cop was probably damned impressed. At 45mph I start to fudge myself.
Old Town is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 08:22 PM   #19
Mos6502
Elitest Murray Owner
 
Mos6502's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Bikes: 1972 Columbia Tourist Expert III, Columbia Roadster
Posts: 2,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Article: How do we get bikers to obey traffic laws?

You probably did not know about this thread discussing the same article.
Mos6502 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 08:39 PM   #20
crhilton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bikes: '07 Trek 1500, '08 Surly Cross Check, '09 Masi Speciale Sprint custom build
Posts: 4,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
I imagine if every car was replaced by one or more bicycles (they gotta get around somehow), that would not be true.
I'm no fan of 4-way stops, so I'd be all for replacing them with lights, and bikes can handle yield signs just fine. I'm not sure why motor vehicles can't handle that situation.

Also, you'd need about 6 times as many bikes if you left similarly sized infrastructure.
crhilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 08:42 PM   #21
crhilton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bikes: '07 Trek 1500, '08 Surly Cross Check, '09 Masi Speciale Sprint custom build
Posts: 4,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Town View Post
The cop was probably damned impressed. At 45mph I start to fudge myself.
It's awesome. How controlled it feels depends a lot on your bike.
crhilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-09, 09:04 PM   #22
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,633
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by crhilton View Post
I'm no fan of 4-way stops, so I'd be all for replacing them with lights, and bikes can handle yield signs just fine. I'm not sure why motor vehicles can't handle that situation.

Also, you'd need about 6 times as many bikes if you left similarly sized infrastructure.
Ain't that the truth!!!
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:08 AM.