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  1. #51
    Larger Chainring Oregon Southpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richio View Post
    I've seen iPod riders and even cellphone riders. Next they'll be texting.

    Plug in, tune out, and wreak havoc.
    You haven't seen anyone riding around texting yet? It is quite popular in this town.

    I got hit one time by someone riding on the sidewalk with their earbuds in. Taco'd my front wheel, threw me off the bike a few feet. Dude looks at me, goes, "you OK?", then pedals off as fast as he could. I should have tried the foot "wheel trick" just to give chase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dovetube View Post
    At times my crotch has thought the title to this thread.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    If I'm that guy, I didn't suggest I never lose some situational awareness while on the road. I do it far more often than I'd like. But it's a lot easier for me to miss things in a car than on a bike, headphones or not. Thanks.
    We are talking about bikes not cars. This isn't a zero sum game between bikes and cars. Just because you feel that you are a worse driver than cyclist doesn't mean that your cycling is safe, just less dangerous than your driving.

    In any event thanks for at least admitting that headphones can pose a real danger whilst cycling.

  3. #53
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    I think both the isolation of the headphones and distraction of the music contributed to the accident as they both kept his attention from what he should have been doing, which of course was watching where he was riding. Like it or not, the fact of the matter is that a lot of people space out while listening to music with headphones. I know this because I'm one of them. Try walking down a crowed city street or a busy train station with headphones to see what I mean. For some reason music that isn't played on headphones doesn't have the same effect on me. (To the guy who says that it doesn't happen to you; great but not everyone is like you, and take note that I qualified my statement. Thanks.)
    Interesting that you demand we believe that the other cyclist is exactly like you with headphones on, while you also make the statement:
    To the guy who says that it doesn't happen to you; great but not everyone is like you

  4. #54
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    Interesting that you demand we believe that the other cyclist is exactly like you with headphones on, while you also make the statement:
    Well, the evidence sure points that way. After all, he didn't see my wife before the impact, then kind of stunned that he actually ran into something took off his headphones and said 'what?'. I'd say that sure sounds like someone spaced out in their own little world, and headphones only helped to create that little world. Without the headphones he at least would have heard my wife screaming at him.....but he didn't because he chose to shut out the outside world with headphones.....

  5. #55
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    Well, the evidence sure points that way. After all, he didn't see my wife before the impact, then kind of stunned that he actually ran into something took off his headphones and said 'what?'. I'd say that sure sounds like someone spaced out in their own little world, and headphones only helped to create that little world. Without the headphones he at least would have heard my wife screaming at him.....but he didn't because he chose to shut out the outside world with headphones.....
    All assumptions without any evidence, despite your repeated claims to the contrary.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    All assumptions without any evidence, despite your repeated claims to the contrary.
    Good luck find another pedantic person to nitpick and argue with. I'm not that person.

  7. #57
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    Good luck find another pedantic person to nitpick and argue with. I'm not that person.
    Try rereading your thread.

  8. #58
    Senior Member onyourback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    Well, the evidence sure points that way.....

    I have to agree with CB HI. Your assumption that he was in an alternate little world and would have heard your wife coming from around the corner doesn't really qualify as evidence. The guy sounds like he was quite a jerk but for you to take all the variables in that interaction and blame the headphones seems a little silly.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    We are talking about bikes not cars.
    Who is "we"? Your prior post directly compared headphones and car stereos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    Just because you feel that you are a worse driver than cyclist doesn't mean that your cycling is safe, just less dangerous than your driving.
    Perhaps. My habit of coming to a steady, predictable stop at red lights has caused me a few hit from-behind accidents.

    But unsafe compared to which particular road user? Yourself? Do tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    In any event thanks for at least admitting that headphones can pose a real danger whilst cycling.
    Missed it. I must have someone else accessing my account and then deleting their posts when I'm not looking.

  10. #60
    Senior Member hshearer's Avatar
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    My bike club gets some time on an indoor running track over the winter. If a bunch of experienced cyclists riding in circles don't allow each other to wear iPODs, that tells me something about how smart it is for the rest of the people on bikes to wear them in traffic. However, they're probably only going to hurt themselves, and I do think it can be done relatively safely if mirrors and good defensive cycling techniques are used. That being said, I've never seen anyone from the iPOD crowd using mirrors and hi-vis clothing and lighting. Seems to be mutually exclusive. People using iPODs get a wide berth from me.

  11. #61
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    There is a reason headphones are not allowed to be used with any motor vehicle but open air speaker systems are.

  12. #62
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer View Post
    There is a reason headphones are not allowed to be used with any motor vehicle but open air speaker systems are.
    Very true - ignorant legislatures!

  13. #63
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    Trying to picture a bunch of cyclists riding to work with open air speaker systems on their bikes.

  14. #64
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hshearer View Post
    My bike club gets some time on an indoor running track over the winter. If a bunch of experienced cyclists riding in circles don't allow each other to wear iPODs, that tells me something about how smart it is for the rest of the people on bikes to wear them in traffic.
    Bet those same experienced club riders are not wearing mirrors while riding in circles either. Besides, club riding, especially doing pacelines is quite different from commuting or just a single recreational rider. I do not use an iPod either in a paceline. So your comparison is off base.


    Quote Originally Posted by hshearer View Post
    That being said, I've never seen anyone from the iPOD crowd using mirrors and hi-vis clothing and lighting. Seems to be mutually exclusive. People using iPODs get a wide berth from me.
    Then you are not paying attention. Chipcom, I and others here, that do use iPods, also support the use of mirrors, visability and lighting. You are probably one of the guys that whines about HID lights being too bright as well.
    Last edited by CB HI; 12-01-09 at 06:22 PM.

  15. #65
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer View Post
    Trying to picture a bunch of cyclists riding to work with open air speaker systems on their bikes.
    There are a few systems set up for bicycles out there. Apple even has one that fits into a water bottle cage. But I would prefer cyclist use headphones, so I do not have to listen to their music. My music is much better.

  16. #66
    Senior Member Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    There are a few systems set up for bicycles out there. Apple even has one that fits into a water bottle cage. But I would prefer cyclist use headphones, so I do not have to listen to their music. My music is much better.
    Yep, my LBS has a small saddle bag with speakers built into it.
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  17. #67
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hshearer View Post
    My bike club gets some time on an indoor running track over the winter. If a bunch of experienced cyclists riding in circles don't allow each other to wear iPODs, that tells me something about how smart it is for the rest of the people on bikes to wear them in traffic.
    Of course, it's also quite likely that these experienced cyclists riding in circles don't allow each other to have working brakes on their bike as they ride on the velodrome ...

  18. #68
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer View Post
    Trying to picture a bunch of cyclists riding to work with open air speaker systems on their bikes.
    I do have two rather loud `open air' speaker systems set up -- one made from computer speakers, one made from a car stereo amplifier and satellite speakers. But I don't use them riding to work -- they're more for the more social group rides. For going to work, by myself, I'd just use an iPod and earbuds at a reasonable volume if I felt the need to listen to music, or one of the little iPod speaker setups in my pocket -- the bigger setups are bulky.

  19. #69
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    I find it hard to believe that the use of headphones (in an excessive volume state) IMPROVES any pilot's awareness. Like any rule, there would be exceptions. Perhaps one could achieve more visual focus. However, how would one's auditory awareness improve?

    It is reasonable to assume that the majority of pilots would have diminished overall AWARENESS.

    I would also wager that some pilots' awareness would be more greatly impacted than others'.

    It is very reasonable to highly suspect that the jackass who rammed the bike was not paying reasonable attention, and was further handicapped BECAUSE of the headphones.

    I am not against the use of headphones if the INDIVIDUAL is CAPABLE of maintaining situational awareness of AT LEAST an EQUAL state of when NOT WEARING headphones.

  20. #70
    Single-serving poster electrik's Avatar
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    The issue of cyclists lack of hearing being the direct cause of danger is a red herring. People in new cars can't even hear sirens almost right behind them now because the car frame is dampened so well. What about motorcyclists wearing full-helmets, surely those riders hear less than somebody listening to music.

    The real trouble is people not paying attention, lack of hearing isn't the cause of these accidents. If the cyclists who collided had been checking cross-traffic using their eyes(most valuable tool on a bicycle) then the collision would have likely been avoided.

    The top poster seems to think that just because the other cyclist didn't hear his wife scream stop that somehow the accident could have been avoided. To that I say, prove it, until then quite reposting anti-cyclist drivel from the UK.

    Cheers

  21. #71
    Senior Member GodsBassist's Avatar
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    I just got my new zune, and I can't wait to get out and use it on the commute tomorrow.

    My old one broke because I, uhh... crashed and landed on it. =D

  22. #72
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    The issue of cyclists lack of hearing being the direct cause of danger is a red herring. People in new cars can't even hear sirens almost right behind them now because the car frame is dampened so well. What about motorcyclists wearing full-helmets, surely those riders hear less than somebody listening to music.

    The real trouble is people not paying attention, lack of hearing isn't the cause of these accidents. If the cyclists who collided had been checking cross-traffic using their eyes(most valuable tool on a bicycle) then the collision would have likely been avoided.

    The top poster seems to think that just because the other cyclist didn't hear his wife scream stop that somehow the accident could have been avoided. To that I say, prove it, until then quite reposting anti-cyclist drivel from the UK.

    Cheers
    Huh? Anti-cyclist drivel? Are you barking mad? Why is it that cyclists on A&S have absolutely no ability to criticize bad cycling? Some folks love to play the oppressed victim so much (god knows why, you're simply riding a bike FFS) that they lose all critical thing skills. BIKE GOOD CAR BAD is complete drivel.

    Oh, and if the guy who hit my wife wasn't wearing headphones he at least would have heard her scream. Now prove that's not true!

  23. #73
    Senior Member Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    Huh? Anti-cyclist drivel? Are you barking mad? Why is it that cyclists on A&S have absolutely no ability to criticize bad cycling? Some folks love to play the oppressed victim so much (god knows why, you're simply riding a bike FFS) that they lose all critical thing skills. BIKE GOOD CAR BAD is complete drivel.

    Oh, and if the guy who hit my wife wasn't wearing headphones he at least would have heard her scream. Now prove that's not true!
    Not saying that he was, but he could have been deaf or hard of hearing, prove that he wasn't.
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  24. #74
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
    Not saying that he was, but he could have been deaf or hard of hearing, prove that he wasn't.
    He wasn't as he had a short conversation with my wife when he took off his headphones to ask he why she was screaming at him as she was laying on the ground. Does that satisfy you, or do you need a letter from an audiologist?

  25. #75
    Senior Member Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    He wasn't as he had a short conversation with my wife when he took off his headphones to ask he why she was screaming at him as she was laying on the ground. Does that satisfy you, or do you need a letter from an audiologist?

    Again not saying that he was, but he could have been reading her lips.
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