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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by 905 View Post
    Nor is it permitted while driving in the Sunshine State, though they haven't outlawed car stereos, which apparently have the magical property of not being distracting.



    Music on a plane, music on a train,
    Sailing on the ocean, music in the motion.
    Music in your car, at your local bar.
    There's music when you look at a star.


    There are number of vehicles cruising in here to a driving soundtrack, without incident. I think a cyclist would fit right in: lycra on a Village Person? A perfect fit!
    Car stereos are not as bad as headphones unless the volume is turned up to 11 to the exclusion of everything else.

    At a reasonable volume, headphones are far more likely to block out external sound than a car stereo.

  2. #102
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    This topic likely doesn't have the addictive power of helmets, which has a less lopsided distribution of opposing viewpoints; a lot more cyclists and people who like to comment about cyclists are going to be anti-iPod to a greater or lesser degree. I note your preferred method of only one ear engaged, which is sensible for those who think surround sound makes safe cycling impossible or at least unlikely.

    Herewith the Wayne's World defense (or is that offense?) Granted the dial appears to be turned up to 11, but when it comes to music and the extent of its power to wrap its loving arms around your frontal and temporal lobes to the exclusion of DANGER WILL ROBINSON! warnings, it's all so very subjective.



    PS. The subject rates a mention in my FAQ along with zombies and zen.
    Last edited by 905; 07-06-14 at 05:00 AM. Reason: yes, it's a delicious itch
    my personal FAQ bikereader.com/FAQ.html

  3. #103
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    "...if you are cycling, you need all your senses about you.” (this is quoted from the article, not Ziemas directly)

    Sounds like a self-cleaning oven "problem" to me. The baked on dirt will often take care of itself if left alone.

    There are so many people on the move be it walking, cycling, or driving that are oblivious to everything around them. I find it silly to single out one camp while ignoring all of the others. PEOPLE (at least some of them) go through their days in a fog no matter what they are doing to get from A to B. My only surprise comes from the fact that SOME of them are alert enough to even notice what others are doing.
    Last edited by JoeyBike; 07-06-14 at 08:09 PM.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  4. #104
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    As a new member, I see the positives of only using this forum's search function as opposed to participating........as an equipment operator in my previous life; I've heard this argument before and seen the results.

  5. #105
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    Sounds like a self-cleaning oven "problem" to me. The baked on dirt will often take care of itself if left alone.

    There are so many people on the move be it walking, cycling, or driving that are oblivious to everything around them. I find it silly to single out one camp while ignoring all of the others. PEOPLE (at least some of them) go through their days in a fog no matter what they are doing to get from A to B. My only surprise comes from the fact that SOME of them are alert enough to even notice what others are doing.
    When that tuneslinger takes out grandma who was waiting for the bus to her spot of tea, my bowler will be misshapen and my disdain newly focused. This is almost like saying let the crack take out Johnny as long as he's the only one involved (he ISN'T, no matter and no how). This is not how A&S rolls though.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
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  6. #106
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    ^^I'ts not a bike issue. It's a PEOPLE issue. Why single out bikes? Grandma is going to mindlessly step off the curb one day right in front of some soccer mom who is texting het hair stylist while applying lipstick and adjusting the TV.

  7. #107
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    If you wear headphones or ear buds while cycling, you'll become both blind and clueless, therefore a hazard to yourself and others.

    Not.

  8. #108
    Not quite there yet Matariki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogster View Post

    All of the collisions and incidents outlined in this story come down to the same factor, the operator of a vehicle not paying attention to what they are doing.
    Not paying attention is the causative behaviour. Since behaviours are a function of the person's values, what exactly might those values be?

    I can't imagine tackling the streets with my hearing impaired (and my mind distracted by music), though there are some that claim they are fine. I wish them much luck.
    Any information, no matter how good, will always under-represent reality.
    -paraphrasing J a r o n L a n i e r

  9. #109
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matariki View Post
    I can't imagine tackling the streets with my hearing impaired...
    I can imagine it, but I can't do it the way I ride. I could actually use a few more senses at my command....like E.S.P. for instance. If I could only sense who was turning without giving a turn signal it would save me some time every day for starters.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
    ...you'll become both blind and clueless, therefore a hazard to yourself and others.
    You must be thinking of something else.
    Headphones will make your ears hairy.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matariki View Post
    I can't imagine tackling the streets with my hearing impaired (and my mind distracted by music), though there are some that claim they are fine. I wish them much luck.
    Thanks but I don't need it.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by jputnam View Post
    The original post specifically referred to a MUP, not urban traffic.

    I'm free to ride blithely down the center of an un-laned MUP, to veer left or right or speed up without watching for overtaking traffic.

    If, however, an overtaking rider has signaled his intent to pass, I must stay to the right side of the MUP and not speed up or turn left until the overtaking vehicle has passed.

    The overtaking rider may choose to pass without signaling, but if I happen to drift left while he's doing it, and he runs into me, it's his fault, not mine.
    I'm sorry but I disagree with your last sentence. When I see an experienced rider, like yourself, riding on a MUP, I expect him/her to a relatively straight line, rather or not the rider behind you signaled or not. Not signaling from behind does not excuse a person to run into another rider. Lets put this to driving a motor vehicle. I was behind you on a two lane road (with no double yellow lines) and I want to pass you on your left because you drive too slow. I decide to not turn on my signal as I pass, you drift left (to avoid a cat or something), and ends up hitting me. Who you do think the cop will say is at fault? Most MUP I've been on instruct cyclists, joggers, dog walkers, etc. to stay on the right and pass the on the left. That being said, I also disagree with riding in the middle of a MUP because riders should operate their bikes like you're riding on a road/street. Do you ride your bike in the middle of an un-laned (no double yellow lines) neighborhood road? Why should you on a MUP? Is it because no one is there to enforce the rules of the MUP or is it the lack of laws governing MUPs? Quite frankly I don't understand why people think they can act a little carelessly on a MUP. It doesn't seems to make sense. Anyway, my comment is to not label you as a reckless cyclist. I'm sure you control your bike quite well. I just disagree with your POV.

  13. #113
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    This ad keeps popping up on this thread. Ironic really.

    ad.jpg
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  14. #114
    Senior Member jputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoviceJohn View Post
    Lets put this to driving a motor vehicle. I was behind you on a two lane road (with no double yellow lines) and I want to pass you on your left because you drive too slow. I decide to not turn on my signal as I pass, you drift left (to avoid a cat or something), and ends up hitting me. Who you do think the cop will say is at fault?
    Definitely the overtaking vehicle, for failing to signal and failing to provide safe passing clearance.

    Of course, when overtaking on a two-lane, unstriped road, the required signal is audible, not just your turn signal -- when you give audible signal, the overtaken operator is required to give way to the right.

    Law and precedent are very clear on that one, the passing vehicle has the duty of care, you'd be at fault in the accident. Clear enough I doubt your insurance would even bother contesting the claim.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jputnam/collections/72157604835074312/

  15. #115
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    so people operating potentially lethal multi-ton heavy machinery in hermetically sealed metal-glass cages do not need to quote-unquote listen to the sound of traffic....but cyclists do.

    car head.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by jputnam View Post
    Definitely the overtaking vehicle, for failing to signal and failing to provide safe passing clearance.

    Of course, when overtaking on a two-lane, unstriped road, the required signal is audible, not just your turn signal -- when you give audible signal, the overtaken operator is required to give way to the right.
    If it's a two-lane road it must be striped since it's the presence of the stripe(s) that creates multiple lanes. If the overtaking driver does so at a place where there's sufficient visibility and distance to execute a safe pass then the overtaken vehicle is required to maintain its course and not to veer into the left lane creating a collision.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    so people operating potentially lethal multi-ton heavy machinery in hermetically sealed metal-glass cages do not need to quote-unquote listen to the sound of traffic....but cyclists do.

    car head.
    That's a rhetorical exaggeration.

    Different types of vehicles will limit the ability of one to perceive their environment, but that doesn't excuse intentionally blocking the ability. Its everyones responsibility to be as aware of their environment as they reasonably can, especially in an environment such as a MUT where common courtesy more than rules and laws dictate conduct.

  18. #118
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    All the folks screaming about cars fail to acknowledge that there are other cyclists on the road, a ton of them where I live, and by shutting themselves off to the sounds of other cyclists they are a danger to others. Nearly every day I have an issue with some knobhead either on the cycle path or road who is jamming away to music and completely oblivious to the fact that others are cycling near them. There is no justification for shutting yourself off from communication from other cyclists whilst cycling in an urban environment. Weaving across the cycle lane is bad form, and if you can't hear my bell or shouting you are a danger.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    so people operating potentially lethal multi-ton heavy machinery in hermetically sealed metal-glass cages do not need to quote-unquote listen to the sound of traffic....but cyclists do.

    car head.
    Just because others are stupid or irresponsibility means you should be MORE smart and responsible, not less.

    I don't know about other countries, but in Singapore there's ALWAYS someone on the outside of heavy machinery on the lookout.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    All the folks screaming about cars fail to acknowledge that there are other cyclists on the road, a ton of them where I live, and by shutting themselves off to the sounds of other cyclists they are a danger to others. Nearly every day I have an issue with some knobhead either on the cycle path or road who is jamming away to music and completely oblivious to the fact that others are cycling near them. There is no justification for shutting yourself off from communication from other cyclists whilst cycling in an urban environment. Weaving across the cycle lane is bad form, and if you can't hear my bell or shouting you are a danger.
    Worse yet are the wanna-be "athletes in training" in full kit who ride or run wearing ear buds and cardio monitors. They are aggressive, goal orientated, type A people who treat all others with contempt.

  21. #121
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    Worse yet are the wanna-be "athletes in training" in full kit who ride or run wearing ear buds and cardio monitors. They are aggressive, goal orientated, type A people who treat all others with contempt.
    I rarely encounter those types in the city center. I usually see them on the highway when I'm driving. Although last time I was in the States I got a really nasty sneer from a bunch of them while I was driving. I actually gave them a ton of extra room while passing them (as a fellow cyclist I try to be as considerate as possible) but when they caught up with me at a red light they all gave a death stare. Couldn't figure it out for the life of me.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyven View Post
    Just because others are stupid or irresponsibility means you should be MORE smart and responsible, not less.

    I don't know about other countries, but in Singapore there's ALWAYS someone on the outside of heavy machinery on the lookout.
    thanks to 100% excise taxes there is a lot less per capita than 'merika.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  23. #123
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    so people operating potentially lethal multi-ton heavy machinery in hermetically sealed metal-glass cages do not need to quote-unquote listen to the sound of traffic....but cyclists do.

    car head.
    I can hear people honking when I'm in my car. Also, in many countries it's illegal to drive with headphones on. Also illegal to drive with really loud music. Mobile phone usage whilst driving is also verboten in most civilized countries, phone lobby be damned.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    I rarely encounter those types in the city center. I usually see them on the highway when I'm driving. Although last time I was in the States I got a really nasty sneer from a bunch of them while I was driving. I actually gave them a ton of extra room while passing them (as a fellow cyclist I try to be as considerate as possible) but when they caught up with me at a red light they all gave a death stare. Couldn't figure it out for the life of me.
    Yes, they are rare, but their narcissistic behaviour really stands out.
    Couple of weeks ago I had a rodie wanna-be yell at me for the high crime of riding at a walking pace on a MUT. Mind you this was a weekend on a section of trail smack in the middle of a playground and picnic area. Children playing, elderly folks strolling, people with pets, families toting picnic sypplys. Nope, no excuse for slowing down...

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    I can hear people honking when I'm in my car. Also, in many countries it's illegal to drive with headphones on. Also illegal to drive with really loud music. Mobile phone usage whilst driving is also verboten in most civilized countries, phone lobby be damned.

    I can hear people honking with ear buds on when I'm riding.
    Also, it's legal to walk with really loud music. Mobile phone usage while standing or walking is also legal in most civilized countries, safety nannies be damned.

    **********************************************

    People operating multi-ton machinery can be dangerous but kittens, puppies, pedestrians, and cyclists are generally not.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

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