trekker pete

bull$hit!!!!

running from a cop when you are guilty of nothing is a really bad idea.

A&S morons that are so quick to take the side of someone just because he is on a bike piss me off.

should a cop NEVER chase a cyclist? if that was SOP why would any cyclist ever stop for any cop.

this cop has a crappy thankless job, made 1000 times worse by thugs like this. it's unfortunate that it ended like it did, but, if you are looking to place blame, it falls 100% on the stupid punk who couldn't follow a simple instruction.

as for the idiots that criticize the cop for his tone of voice, you have got to be kidding me?

deputyjones

Hmmm, well you can be sure that this WILL be a standard training video from now on. Regardless of what some might think we cops do a good job of learning from our own mistakes.

Very tragic what happened, and the officer should have been paying better attention to where he was in relation to the bicyclist given the possibility of such a terrible outcome, but everything else he did seemed justified.

Take away WHY he was chasing the bicyclist. The linked article does not say, but it could have been for something as little as a traffic violation. However, the mere fact that he was running is a felony. The officer escalated his use of force to stop a felony in progress in a logical manner: lights + sirens, verbal commands, loud verbal commands, deployment of taser (I know, this is arguable).

This does not take away from the officer's fault in helping cause this death, but wanted to provide a different spin here.

dynodonn 

There are persons who are going to run regardless, and then it's up to the LEO on what level of pursuit to respond with. Locally, our LEOs will call for backup and keep the suspect in sight, eventually the suspect will tire out. Usually it takes more than one LEO to catch a suspect, especially when they are on bike or on foot.
This is a clear case of one LEO trying to do it all, and now has given the PPD a black eye with many more of the city's citizens.

Dchiefransom

You must not be reading the right articles, he was not shot in the back of the head. Try listening to the part of the Oakland population that does not think that a parolee that killed four police officers is a hero, and was just a regular guy because he sat around drinking and getting high, which are parole violations.
How many times have you handled a taser in the middle of wrestling with someone? Tell us how you know that a taser and a gun feel different during the excitement of arresting someone that doesn't want to go with you.

People are upset that one of Grant's friends will be testifying that Officer Mehserle actually warned that he was going to tase Grant. I guess telling the truth doesn't fly to a large part of the Oakland population. Why are there only videos of the incident with the police, and not the incident on BART with the boy's father, BEFORE the police got there? Maybe, just maybe, the other riders were afraid of Grant and his buddies, and didn't want to be seen making a video of what was happening.

People in San Jose, Ca are upset because the police are going to be wearing a small video cam so they can show what happened up close, not some grainy phone video that's off at a distance. Too bad the BART cops didn't have these already.

deputyjones

True this doesn't help engender good relations with the community, but you argument seems a bit silly to me.

Would it have been ok for an officer to accidentally run someone over if 10 officers were chasing this guy?

The officer was trying to make an apprehension of a felony suspect, as is his duty, and a tragic accident occurred.

hshearer

Well said. It was a bad outcome, but the guy on the bike had a lot of chances to stop. Sometimes pursuits end badly, even when police are doing their best to stop a suspect without harming him. I feel much worse for the cop.

gcottay

Well said. Pursuit is tough for law enforcement but many agencies and departments have learned to minimize risks and still apprehend suspects.

Try reading before you argue. "Locally, our LEOs will call for backup and keep the suspect in sight, eventually the suspect will tire out. Usually it takes more than one LEO to catch a suspect, especially when they are on bike or on foot. "

If you want to back the badge, lend your support to good training and having sufficient units on the street to reduce the need for lone ranger action.

spock

OMG are we ever gonna evolve???

Cops are not supposed to run over people by accident...........These people have lethal weapons and a loads of training to become a police officer. You, me, maybe.....but a police officer who chose his profession knowing what to expect and who has been in military (probably most) and the police academy....R U kidding me.... Cops are supposed to remain CALM at any situation. Was that cop CALM********************? I think we have evidence...

dynodonn 

You may call it an accident, but I would call it negligence, and it still would not be OK if 10 LEOs were involved, but having help would have made it so that LEO would have been able to reduce the level of the pursuit he used. Locally, evading a police officer is a misdemeanor, something FL should look into in reducing the level of pursuit needed to catch someone, and not have to catch their man at all costs.

sudo bike

(NSFW - language)
https://lh6.ggpht.com/_D58s8sD8chc/S4...enin%20wtf.jpg



I disagree, especially in situations such as these when it's not known at the time why he's evading police. As was noted, one officer caught a man fleeing the cops and it turned out to be Ted Bundy. Sure glad he didn't decide to just "back off" then.

I certainly agree cops should not put bystanders in harms way. Those are innocents that simply are in the wrong place at the wrong time. It doesn't appear the cop put any bystanders in harms way.

But you simply have to accept that there is an element of danger for those being chased. They've put their life at risk running from the cops. Unless we opt, as a society, to simply not pursue fleeing criminals - which I don't think anyone here is advocating - they are putting their lives at risk. This kid could've easily died if he was fleeing in a car.

How would backup help? I'm still missing something here... people here are arguing the cop was reckless for driving too close. That he was reckless due to the tazing. So why are more cops who aren't supposed to do these things either going to help? Had he simply tried to keep the suspect in sight, he could easily have lost him when he found a place his bike could go but the car could not. No - it was the suspect's fault that his life was put at risk, and I for one am not willing to let more criminals have the chance to get away because current tactics call for stopping the criminal ASAP. The cop attempted to stop him with non-lethal force - unfortunately he did not succeed. That does not mean he acted improperly by trying to stop him.

The kid made the choice, he had to take responsibility for it. That's how the real world works. It's too bad it ended the way it did... but it was his choice that caused it.

deputyjones

Ahhh, the Helmet Head argument. You disagree with me therefore you don't know how to read.

I've missed that.

dynodonn 

Ouch, one reason why our state now has stricter pursuit rules.

Timber_8

I don't see the problem, The punk was loitering around a construction sight, resisting arrest, Oh yea and illegally caring a concealed fire arm at 17 and people defend him as some kind of a victim.
Are you joking me. What part of criminal do you not understand ??

spock

It's something you probably don't understand.

sudo bike

Defending a criminal fleeing lawful arrest and damning an officer of the law trying to keep streets safe. I can honestly say you're right, I don't understand it.

dynodonn 

Justice at any cost ends up hurting everyone in the end.

spock

I am neither defending nor damning. A cop ran over a person by negligence. It shouldn't happen with the men in blue.. Simple as that.

sudo bike

In your opinion. In my opinion he was not negligent.

The men in blue are not robots. They are people, like anyone else.

If nothing else, just look at the straws people are grasping at in this thread. "What if he didn't speak the language?", "What if he were deaf?", "What if the cop were lying?" (besides there being no evidence of this). These great lengths people are going to in order to blame the cop don't tell you that maybe there's a little anti-cop bias here? Really?

dougmc

This was an extremely low level of pursuit. Speeds up to 20 mph or so? This wasn't some 100+ mph high speed pursuit through a residential area by 12 cops ...

Probably no bystanders anywhere in the area.

It's unfortunate that the kid was killed. It seemed quite obvious that wasn't how the cop wanted it to end. But the kid brought it on himself -- running from the cops is dangerous.

I seem to recall that a policy not to taze out of a moving vehicle came out of this situation?

dougmc

Do you really think this was a case of "justice at any cost"?

Really, if that was the cop's goal, he could have just whipped his gun out the window and sprayed bullets at the guy until he stopped, then arrested whatever was left. What happened was an accident (at least on the cop's side -- the kid was responsible for putting himself into that situation.)

spock

The facts and the evidence completely over-power our opinions. If this cop had a time-rewind machine, I bet he would have done things differently. Cops are people too, but they are people that qualify to be cops.

Mos6502

I'd like to hear the logic behind this argument. If you run from a cop, it makes sense that a cop chases you. But there's a gap in logic between if you run from a cop, it's ok if he runs you over with a car.

The kid made a choice to run, and the cop made a mistake in judgment (well, several) which ended up killing the kid. Sometimes people make stupid decisions that may not have seemed immediately stupid to them at the time - but that doesn't make their actions any less stupid. In this instance I think both people have blame to take for their respective actions (which is usually the case).

dynodonn 

How fast do you think the officer was traveling when he ran over his suspect? Plus there were several bystanders watching the suspect get run over by the LEO while they were standing outside a local bar.

dynodonn 

Yes, my statement was on the extreme side, but this incident shows that more restraint was needed to be shown by the LEO when taking up a pursuit.

deputyjones

I won't necessarily completely disagree with that, but I'll throw a couple observations out here.

#1. The cops are always in a no win situation. If the officer is more "gentle" about his approach here and in the process the suspect gets away and ends up killing someone with that gun now the officer is responsible legally, morally and financially for that. He had a person committing a felony right in front of him and let him get away.

#2. To those who take offense to the way the officer was giving commands I would challenge you someday when you are home alone to try to give commands loud enough and forceful enough to stop a felon in his tracks without sounding angry. I've very rarely in my career ever been actually angry with a suspect, but when I am giving loud verbal commands I am sure I sound like it.

#3. After reviewing that video a bit more I really believe what happened was the officer overshot the suspect and thought he turned right and was looking that way when the suspect actually turned left and before the officer realized that it was too late.