tom cotter

Last month the feds approved about 23 million dollars in TIGER Grant money for bike path improvement in the Philly area. Of that, about 6 million dollars has been approved for South Jersey. Most of that money will be used in the City of Camden.
The spending of this money has caused outrage by the general public. First for what they view as wasting money that could be better spent in a recession. And secondly, for spending the money for bike paths in Camden where few of the South Jersey region's 1.2 million people will ever use them.
The crit of spending the money in Camden is due to Camden having one of the highest crime rates in the country, including at one time having the highest murder rate in the country. Most area residents only visit Camden when official business brings them there. Another factor is that the money will not be used to build a missing commuter link from the burbs to the Ben Franklin Bridge.

As I travel the country i note well planned bike paths. Paths that actually go places. That is not the case here. While we have bike paths, most are paths to nowhere. A one mile path here , and two mile path there. Most have poor access and are poorly maintained. The lack of planning does make it seem like a waste of money.

rumrunn6

biking through a remote high crime area ... sign me up!

KonAaron Snake 

I totally disagree with you. The whole point to the Camden path is connecting Philadelphia with Cherry Hill, which goes through Camden. The path would be along an old rail line as I understand it, and we have that going on already with high crime areas in Norristown. That hasn't translated to problems on the bike path. The path isn't going through a slum or anything. Camden also has Rutgers, parks, whatever the Tweeter Center is called now and Adventure Aquarium...there are tourist destinations for cyclists along Camden's waterfront. I ride there frequently in fact. Also let's look at the bigger picture...eventually the water front is going to have the new casinos on it, hopefully finally leading to development. That development should cross to Camden and the bike path will make an excellent connection between the two.

Considering how much money gets wasted in this nation, 6mm for a bike path doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world.

Doohickie

They ran a bike path through an old, run-down warehouse district in Dallas. The resulting increase in property values due to the warehouses being converting to loft housing with convenient bike access was in excess of $100 million.

Just sayin'.

powerhouse

A few years ago, the city of Portland (Maine) built a connector roads project involving a series of bridges which a.) provided more a more direct route over the Fore River for trucks from an industruial area, toward the interstate, b.) aleviated car traffic in that area of the city, and c.) provided a route to and from a nearby hospital. Along with this, they decided to add a nice little path for pedestrians and bicyclists away from the streets along one side of the river in this area. The intention of this path for pedestrians was to connect one part of the city to another away from traffic. It was nice...until it abruptly ended at a bridge abutment where all motorized traffic crossed over the bridge and the river met the Atlantic Ocean. All bicyclists and peds were forced to turn around and go back. They couldn't cross the congested streets. What a waste.

There are bike paths and MUPs that are worth the money, though. There is one currently being built along an abandoned rail line on which large sections have been completed and in use. When finally completed, It will be a 50 mile long MUP, connecting over nine towns and cities and running from the town of Fryeburg (ME) on the New Hampshire border to Portland, Maine. It's being made possible through the Maine DOT and contributions from a private non profit group. To learn more, see www.mountaindivisiontrail.org.

tom cotter

This is the kind of thinking that gets a bike path built that noone will use.

A few points:

Camden is not Norristown. The violent crime rate in Norristown is less than Philly. Camden's violent crime rate is 80% higher than Norristown's.

All of Camden is a slum. There are no 'Nice" areas in Camden. All Camden neighborhoods are in decline.

There are no safe areas in Camden. None!

Of the venues mentioned, most are one and done attractions. How many times can you go to a small Aquarium? Tweeter is a second rate venue for B listers that has yet to earn money for its owners. Thus the revolving door of ownership. And, who is going to ride a bike there at night? The battleship NJ is laying off and cutting hours to stay afloat. Please note the lack of restuarants, convenience stores, gift stores and gas stations serving the waterfront. Why do you suppose that is? Not one restuarant!

As for Rutgers, most of the commuting students take the speed line. A bike path isn't going to change that.

Saving Camden is a pipedream. The allocation of the money was decided by bike advocates with commuting in mind. Yet, the path doesn't link to the bridge, forcing commuters to surface streets. Another link, along Admiral Wilson BLvd is also missing. Ah, what were the deciders thinking? Meanwhile the existing path from Cherry Hill is in need of serious repair.

The money could have been better spent. Go to Florida or DC and there are paths that run between cities. Paths that are safe to use and actually go someplace. Paths that serve both a transportation and a recreation purpose. Money well spent!

Noone other than a few hardy commuters will use this path. It will decline into a six million dollar trash strewn waste of money.

Whiteknight

Regarding Norristown and the SRT.

Wife and I were on the SRT on Saturday, Sunday and again yesterday (Tuesday).

On Saturday afternoon we noted a police SUV parked along the trail at Haws Ave. taking a break. The guy carried mud onto the trail with his SUV.

Norristown at Haws Ave. is still a lot safer than the neighborhood I live in. We have noted that sometimes there will be people from that section of Norristown walking on the trail or standing near it. We found that most respond with a smile if we simply give them a pleasant hello.

Last summer there were problems along the trail at that point. But the thugs on the playground were given the message that it was not wise to mess with trail traffic. They listened!

Saturday and Sunday my wife and I were surprised at the number of trail users. At times things were tight. Even yesterday on a weekday the afternoon hours saw a lot of trail users.

Roughstuff

When a community wants to 'lift itself up by its bootstraps,' as this bike path appears to be an attempt to do, it has to be a multi-level effort by businesses and local boards, with especial emphasis on safety for local patrons. Camden would hardly be the only city that struck a faustian bargain with local lowlifes of 'commerce and commuters' by day, 'drugs and killin by night.'

roughstuff

powerhouse

Another MUP was constructed next to a second railroad branch line not in use in Central Maine along the Kenebec River using state funds. The railroad line was abandoned but the state bought the track in hopes that another freight line might use it. The MUP was built alongside it because it had been seen that people had been walking along the line through the towns of Augusta, Farmingdale, Hallowell, and Gardiner. The did this for the purposes of the people in the four towns being connected, getting to work, and having fun in their spare time When it was finished, it was a smooth, paved path occaisionally crossed the rail line which both pedestrians and bicyclists used heavily and is named the Kennebec River Rail Trail or KRRT.

As time went on, some crime began occurring on this trail (e.g. drug deals, spray-painting, etc). This didn't keep people from making their everyday commutes on the KRRT, but it showed that it's sad fot that kind of thing to happen on a perfectly good MUP.

genec

The problem stems from making paths too narrow and then not being able to readily patrol them... funny how this little bit of logic escapes path designers.

SlimAgainSoon

Hey, let's hear it for Camden ... sounds lovely.

But ... poor people on bikes? I don't have a problem with that.

Most rail-to-trail conversions see a lot of use.

Digital_Cowboy

Tampa/St. Pete is/was trying to get some of that money to repair The Friendship Trail/Gandy Bridge. I do not know how that is going. I do know that from what was put out at both meetings that the bridge is in worse shape then most people realized.

hshearer

So, should we only build roads in well-to-do areas? Bike infrastructure should be put where it's needed most, and ideally, there will come a day when it's easy to get around every city, and even between cities, by bike. Even in the poorer or crime-ridden areas. I would love to see that kind of money spent in my city. We've had a $2 million bike plan sitting around for years now, and saw the first action on it last year; $40,000 to paint some sharrows and bike lanes.

Shimagnolo

An excellent opportunity to practice your sprinting!

Shimagnolo

6mm?
Couldn't they make it a little wider?
I run 28's on my road bike.

KonAaron Snake 

I do think Tom has a very valid point if the path is connecting to the bridge via surface routes. That could be dangerous...I'll reserve judgment until I ride the finished product.

If this is done correctly I think it would absolutely get heavy use. Tom is incorrect in saying no one commutes across the Ben Franklin by bike...they do...all the time. This would increase it if done properly. I also disagree with his statement that Camden's tourist attractions are valueless...they're not. The Tweeter gets heavy use and so do the parks. If they can do something with the old sears building and waterfront work happens, the area around the bridge COULD turn around. Camden and Philly have been criminally inept in exploiting the water front for YEARS. I think this also has to be viewed in the context of water front development spurred by the coming casinos. People would have said the same thing about Northern Liberties and Graduate Hospital that you said about Camden. If they build along the waterfront, and this path could be a great step towards that, the strip along the river could absolutely turn the corner.

Whether it's %15 less dangerous or more dangerous than an area of Camden is irrelevant. Norristown has VERY high crime rates and poverty within a mile of the path. That hasn't stopped commuters from using it and I don;t think it would stop use in Camden either...ASSUMING the path is away from streets. The end result here is a path from Reading through the city and all the way through the burbs of NJ...it will make an excellent tour route and I for one can't wait to ride it in its entirety.

Another thing to consider is that Camden is a transportation hub...NJ Transit is VERY bike friendly and the path would allow folks to day trip up to NYC and Boston by bike.

Digital_Cowboy

I thought that that was what "Eddie" was for. ;-)

unterhausen

I don't think we should ignore communities just because of their crime rate. The crime rate in most places has been going down significantly, particularly if you factor out crimes between people that know each other or have some sort of conflict. As someone said above the cost of this is tiny in comparison to a similar road improvement. Even if this project only benefits pedestrians and locals it is probably worth it.

skye

What a snob. Only rich people should have bike paths?

Oh, that's right. You're the same guy who was crying about all those awful bike messengers riding their bikes (gasp!) for a living, and ruining your Biking Experience.

You really need to get a life, Tom.

tom cotter

I'm trying to see where i said no one commutes across the BFB? But few do, relatively. 1.2 million people have easy access to that bridge from the Jersey side. How many ride bikes across that bridge every day? The math, from a taxpayers POV doesn't support any bike links. And a true link would require major surgery to the bridge to elimnate the steps to the walkway. And speaking of those steps, a major choke point for any bike commuters. Yet in all my year of crossing that bridge at rush hour no line of cyclist to get up those steps single file? Where are all the bike commuters?

The old Sears building is standing in the way of Campbells Soup's new world headquarters. Campbells is committed to the city, yet does little manufacturing there. Most of the other corps in the city are satilite ops. The heavy industry moved out 75 years ago.

There is a reason there is no place for all those concert goers to eat on the waterfront. It's the same reason that not one hotel chain operates a motel or hotel in the city of Camden. It's a money loser. That fine transportation hub you speak of- google Christine Eberle and let me know what you think. And, BTW, the Riverline, a money loser with such low ridership that it doesn't pay for itself. And the RiverLine is cutting late night service saying the Tweeter center ridership isn't worth the extra cost.

I don't have to say that Camden's attractions are worthless, corporate america is saying it for me.

Still, this is simpler than all that. look at my screen name and look at where i live. This path as a connector to Philly isn't something i would use without pause and isn't something a recreational bicyclist from Cherry hill would use at all. People from Cherry Hill know better than to venture into Camden. And for good reason! It's just not on the list of places they want to go. Build a trail east instead of west from Cherry Hill, or go from Merchantville out through Maple Shade and Moorestown and people will flock to that trail.

Look at the trail that runs from York Pa to Baltimore MD. Why can't we have something like that? We could, with better planning.

tom cotter

Ops double post. Sorry about that!

tom cotter

If you were more interested in learning about the issue at hand rather than taking cheap shots at people you don't know you would be aware that this path isn't about helping or benefiting poor people. In fact it's quite the opposite. It's about helping rich folks from the burbs get through the poor neighborhoods more efficiently. You would also know, that even though the people of Camden are poor they are not without a voice. And they are to a person outraged at the amount of money being "wasted" on something as stupid as a bike path. Their words not mine. To paraphrase one minister "Six million dollars feeds a lot of people for a long time."

As i said, the level of outrage is on two levels, first why spend money on this now, and two, why there? So, yeah, i'm against the path that most people in the city don't want. That makes me a snob?

And to be clear, i have a life. one which respects the rights of others. Which "was" at one time alot more than i could say for Philly's bike messengers.

tom cotter

Are you going to ride your bike through one of the roughest neighborhoods in the country? Honestly, would you? Ok, neither would anyone else. So, why build a bike path there?

Just so you know, the do gooders have poured well over a billion dollars into trying to revitalize Camden. All money down a rat hole. Putting a match to that money would have done more good. Not an inch of improvement. And that's because it ain't a money problem.

KonAaron Snake 

Tom...I absolutely favor Campbell's Soup in that dispute...I couldn't agree with you more in that regard. I might have been unclear...by develop that building, I meant let Campbell's stay in the area and kick the shirt salesman the heck out of there. It's a lot of jobs and a lot of tax dollars.

As for the rest...I disagree, but we'll see how it works out. I will say that I can think of a lot of worse things I see my tax dollars spent on and 6 mil just doesn't seem worth getting that upset over.

tom cotter

I'd like to see the path succeed, but it really has an uphill battle. No link to the bridge. The bridge steps and an undesirable area are all red flags.

As for six million, imagine a benefactor hands you six million dollars to do anything you wish with. However, with one big condition- it has to be spent for the greater good. You can't go down to the local bike shop and have your dream shopping spree. The question is: would you build this bike path with that money?

Six million dollars is a lot of money. It could provide over a million meals for the homeless or unemployed. It would build over 100 homes for low income families. It would give over 1000 people an Associates Degree, and over 500 a technical skill.

Six million spent the right way could do a lot of good. Six million dollars, to me, is a lot of money.