Chicago Al 

First time (and maybe last!) in this forum.

Though middle aged I am a noob to cycling, but I took it up with a passion last summer, and now my whole family is equipped with 80s road bikes, C&V being the 'gateway' to my cycling hobby. Most of my riding is recreational and for fitness, only a bit for errand running around our urban neighborhood. Teen kids often cycle to school via a MUP near our house which leads right to their high school. (Nice urban amenity!)

Cycling has given me a new respect for the challenges cyclists face driving in auto traffic, but I have to confess it makes me even more irritated than I used to be when I see so many cyclists blatantly violate any kind of traffic law that inconveniences them.

Case in point:

Our neighborhood is a grid with one diagonal street cutting through. Most traffic is on just a few streets. Every block has a stop sign, every four way is stop each way, the streets are two-lane and fairly narrow, some blocks are quite short. Cars generally go slowly as the stops are so frequent. But I regularly see cyclists blow through the stop signs without regard for the auto traffic, even when cars are at the intersection plainly signaling their intention to turn.

Yesterday I was driving home and had to make two right hand turns to get to my house due to the one ways. As I came to one four-way stop, heading S, signaling my turn R/W, I saw a cyclist coming from the E. He didn't seem to be slowing for the sign, nor did he look over at me, so instead of proceeding to make my turn I waited, and sure enough he went right through, without slowing down. If I had not yielded to him or anticipated his failure to stop he would certainly have slammed into my car.

As I drove W I went past him. There was another stop sign where I stopped and proceeded, and I saw in my mirror that he blew that sign too. Then I came to my final turn, where I put my signal on a long way before stopping at the sign. I looked into the mirror and sure enough, there was the cyclist, speeding along behind me, and I realized that if I made my turn he would hit me. So I waited, and he blew right by without a glance.

This was a well-dressed commuter with a helmet and lights, on a nice bike. I bet he is someone who takes pride that he's a bike commuter. But he's a terrible, terrible cyclist and at some point is going to cause an accident, an accident that he will surely come off the worst in. And he reinforces a widespread perception that cyclists are scofflaws, which does not endear us to motorists---even those of us who are naturally sympathetic, even cyclists ourselves.

Ummm...I guess I don't have a moral or a point after that except to say:

RIDING A BIKE DOES NOT EXEMPT YOU FROM THE RULES OF THE ROAD OR COMMON SENSE.

cudak888 

A well-dressed commuter with a helmet perched high on his head, a pair of tiny blinky lights, and a brand-new Trek 4200 that he can't bear to put panniers on for fear of scratching the paint, I presume?

He probably takes pride that he rides to work...every year for Bike To Work Week.

-Kurt

Wanderer

You can't fix STUPID !!!

Rockrivr1

I have to agree with you. Cyclist can sometimes be their own worst enemy. We complain about the bad treatment we get from motorist, but a few idiots do things that cause some of our own issues. Someday soon that commuter is going to learn the hard way for his lack of road awareness.

CB HI

OP, mind posting the rant you put up on the motorist forum shortly after you started driving; about all the motorist violating signs, speed limits, etc. and how they reinforces a widespread perception that motorists are scofflaws.

DRIVING A CAR DOES NOT EXEMPT YOU FROM THE RULES OF THE ROAD OR COMMON SENSE.

electrik

This must be one of those passive agressive notes... you should take it here

linux_author

watch the road and ride as you see fit - there's no life guard in the gene pool - i see stupid peds and dog walkers all day long too, but i'm not irritated

noisebeam

The motorists who drive bad tend to drive bad in predicable ways, speeding, rolling stops, running hot reds, tight merges, tailgating.

The cyclists who tend to drive bad do so in less predictable ways relative to the next cyclist and while it is similar to motorists in regard to rolling or non-stops, also includes wrong way, jumping on off roadway, running cold reds. Generally more variation and creativity.

This tends to make the cyclist infractions stand out more, even if they are less frequent in quantity, in proportion and with less potential harm to others.

cudak888 

Describe to me any one situation involving one of the infractions listed, then explain how that incident would be "predictable" to all other motorists in the vicinity.

-Kurt

CB HI

But interestingly, the OP claims to have perfectly anticipated each scofflaw move by his cyclist.

gcottay

You can't change those riders, Al, but you can change yourself. Their riding is their choice. Your response is your choice. Lose the irritation. Gain joy and health.

noisebeam

When I am motoring I know many other motorists are going about 10mph over PSL. I know if I follow the PSL that motorist will be approaching from rear and desiring to pass.

When I am driving approaching a roadway entrance to my right and a motorist moving toward the intersection I know that more likely that not they will not come to a full stop at the stop line, but instead look left and right and if clear roll over it and proceed. If they slow harder it and actually come to a stop is likely a sign that they have seen cross traffic.

I know when am I at a red light, then cross traffic light turns red that there will be a few stragglers running the just turned red and its best not to go immediately on green.

Perhaps I should stay consistency in violation - so much that drivers practically expect it and have adjusted to the typical.

unterhausen

I am at a loss why people ride their bikes through stop signs seemingly without regard to cross traffic. Then again, I see plenty of motorists failing to stop for stop signs and panic stopping when they realize they are about to get hit. And around here, right turn on red after stop is almost never observed properly.

Snowman219

+1

*TEAR* That was beautiful. *TEAR*

dynodonn 

Obviously the OP hasn't seen the Monster Track video that Joeybike posted a few days ago on another A&S thread, making his scofflaw cyclist incident seem tame.

Chicago Al 

As I said, first post and possibly last in A&S; I see it lives up to its rep. Nice to see a couple of familiar faces though.

I didn't come here for an argument.

(OH YES YOU DID!)



btw I watched the Monster Track video; I enjoyed it though I'd never ride that way. That kind of riding may be rude to other traffic and pedestrians but at least the riders have situational awareness, obv a lot of it! Somehow it seems different to me than what I was noting, but it's difficult to put my finger on why. Maybe it's the difference between riding aggressively with control and style vs just being oblivious and assuming other traffic (could just have easily been another cyclist) will yield the right of way.

Giffen

Let's see. Cyclists break traffic laws in ways that are annoying and unsafe. Motorists break traffic laws in ways that are annoying and unsafe. Pedestrians break laws in ways that are annoying and unsafe.

I think I see a pattern; one that has little do with cyclists.

I-Like-To-Bike

What did you come here for -to describe your ability to watch and avoid bicyclists while driving skill?

unterhausen

If the OP were to stick around, he probably would learn that this subject has been beaten to death in A&S, and no doubt will continue to be beaten to death in the future. Most of us are refining our answer out of a misplaced dedication to craft. There is a unstated challenge in every post like this: the OP says he is a new cyclist and insinuates that all the experienced cyclists flagrantly run stop signs contravening good social order and all that makes life bearable. On the contrary, I believe that the people running stop signs in an unsafe manner are probably also not very experienced. Furthermore, I think it takes about 5 years of riding to fully appreciate the stupidity, maliciousness, and criminal negligence with which some motorists operate their vehicles. These flaws of character or training make the generally harmless habit cyclists have of running stop signs look positively benign. Thus most cyclists don't really want to hear about stop signs -- first cast the beam out of your eye and all that.

CB HI

I am disappointed. OP edited out his rant against my post.

OP, do some more reading, the Idaho law allowing cyclist to treat stop signs as yields and red lights as stop signs, has some data that indicates such treatment makes cycling safer. Now if you would like to discuss real safety/advocacy issues rather than just blaming cyclist for the poor treatment motorist, some LEOs and politicians give us, then drop the blame cyclist attitude.

chipcom 

Since the weather has gotten decent, Cheri has been wanting to go for rides after I ride home from work.
Night before last, early in our ride, as we are approaching a fairly busy 4-way stop behind a couple of cars, some dude rides up from behind and filters up the right past us and the cars in front of us, then proceeds to jog right, into where a crosswalk would be, if we had a crosswalk there, and cross the intersection without stopping or even slowing for the sign...nearly getting right-hooked by the car who was already at the stop and had the ROW to make his right hand turn.

Later, as we are on the final miles of our ride, we have to cross a busy 4 lane divided highway. We cross the first part, as there is no traffic coming from the south, and stop to wait for the long line of traffic from the other direction to clear. A car with a bike on a rack coming from that direction wants to make a left...and STOPS, almost getting rear-ended, rather than just proceeding to make his left around us just as one would if it were another car sitting there instead of two bikes. I motion and holler for the guy to "come on, make your turn" and notice that it's THE SAME GUY WHO BLEW THE STOP SIGN ON HIS BIKE EARLIER.

Moral of the story has already been mentioned in this thread...ain't no cure for stupid - and stupid is vehicle agnostic.

prathmann

So have you complained to your city authorities about this abysmal method of traffic calming? Requiring so many complete stops is terrible for both car and bicycle traffic, but is frequently implemented since it's seen as the cheapest and quickest fix for speeding traffic. But other methods of traffic calming, such as partial narrowing of streets, traffic circles, selective street closures, etc. result in less air pollution and noise while promoting better traffic flow and more use of cycling.

noisebeam

If you do read this:
https://www.troymi.gov/TrafficEngineering/Multiway.htm

crhilton

He pretty clearly came to vent.

I thought the post was fine OP. I don't think we can draw any useful conclusions from it though...

We have heard the same rant, less well stated, from motorists over and over. Usually it's an excuse for why cyclists should be rounded up and starved to death in a special camp. Err, I mean kicked off the roads.
So it rattles some cages.

Just adding a little context.

Chicago Al 

Thanks, crhilton. You are right, I came to vent, and there's not really anything useful to be drawn from that. Also I guess I was testing the waters here, remarkable the range of responses.

The lesson, if there was one, for me: watch out for particularly bone-headed cyclists, who are not as easy to spot as bone-headed motorists. And as chipcom noted, they may be one and the same. For that matter I am going to keep an eye out and see if the cyclist I encountered walks his dog by my house and is the one who doesn't clean up after the pooch!

The frequent stops are pretty universal in Chicago, this is a dense residential area with lots of pedestrians. I really don't have a problem with it, having brought up three kids here. In this particular neighborhood there was a movement to get speed bumps and 'calming circles' installed to impede traffic further, the subject of many overheated meetings full of ladies like the one from 'The Simpsons' screaming 'Won't someone think of the children?' God knows what they would want to do to reckless cyclists...

Mr Hawaii, you are right, I edited my prior response after a few minutes because I didn't think the tone was right. Though I didn't appreciate your imputation of bad faith to me, there was no reason for me to respond sarcastically. If you find a more civil tone disappointing, too bad, but I'm not going to fight with you.

Just barely got a ride in this evening as the temperature drops and Chicago's winter has one last blast at us...