pitchpole

It is common practice here and probably just about everywhere in USA for cars to use the wide bike lanes as extra turning lanes at intersections. Is it legal? I'm sure many here who have been buzzed and right hooked by drivers who do this.

When I took an online driver improvement course last year the study material said it was ok for cars to use the bike lanes as turn lanes as long as they made sure there were no bikers in it.

mikeybikes

I'd prefer that they merge into a bike lane if one exists to make a right turn. This would reduce the number of right hooks, as it would prevent cyclists from passing the right turning vehicle on the right, and allow a proper pass on the left. Also, it forces other vehicles to look and make sure the bike lane is clear before merging into it.

Think about it, when driving a car, you don't make a right turn from a middle lane, or left lane do you? No, you make your right turn from the right-most lane.

cooker

Yes, it makes the most sense that the car merges right before turning right. Ideally the bike lanes should be designed to make this clear, with dotted lines or sharrows or stick figures to help cyclists and drivers alike figure this out. As the car merges right, cyclists behind it who want to go straight ahead should shoulder check and then pass the car on the left. (left side picture)

What I sometimes see instead, is the car driver hesitates outside the bike lane, near the intersection, a couple of cyclists squeeze by on the right and go straight through, then the car driver starts to turn, then a dawdling cyclist still tries to stupidly pass on the right and maybe bangs self-righteously on the window. (right side picture)

pitchpole

That is a good point mike. However I find that the cars who cause me problems are not those I pass on the right who have slowed or stopped already with signal on but those that come flying up and pass me on the left and then execute their right turn in front of me. If there is a car ahead of me with a turn signal on I don't go past them in the bike lane unless they are stopped way back in the traffic queue.

noisebeam

I think drivers should merge to the far right ahead of making a right turn. It is however not legal in AZ or OR to merge into the bike lane when doing this unfortunately.

mikeybikes

That's not a problem with bike lanes - that's a problem in general. If the car had executed a proper merge before hand, making sure the lane was clear, the right hook would not be a problem.

I get right hooked like that trying to use a proper RTOL to turn right on my bicycle. A lot of car drivers are impatient.

cZa

I would much rather have a car merge in front of me then turn into me.

pitchpole

Yes I see that you are right. Perhaps they should put up signs indicating that the bike lane can be used for turning at intersections. The cross hatched lines dont really make it clear since they usually only start five feet from the intersection.

keithm0

If cars don't see you when turning from their lane, why do you think they'll see you when they merge into the bike lane?

sooprvylyn

I know for a fact that at least in California you are allowed to merge into a bike lane 100ft before a turn. Just took the test at DMV.

noisebeam

just allowed, or actually required?

cZa

When I turn left I pull in front of automotive traffic and expect them to patiently wait for me to make my turn. If a car is going to turn left I would want them to come to the right and then execute there turn. And yes I feel a better chance of the automobile seeing me if they concentrate first on the merge then the turn. not just the turn.

High Roller

California got this one right. Arizona and Oregon got it dead wrong.

cZa

When I turn left I pull in front of automotive traffic and expect them to patiently wait for me to make my turn. If a car is going to turn left I would want them to come to the right and then execute there turn. And yes I feel a better chance of the automobile seeing me if they concentrate first on the merge then the turn. not just the turn.

cooker

Merging into your lane, then slowing and turning, is a lot safer than suddenly veering across in front of you

High Roller

Exactly. The whole idea is not to create two separate trajectories that will cross paths with each other. As in any other lane change, the driver changing lanes should respect the right-of-way of any vehicles already in the lane into which they intend to merge. If they don't have enough time or space to safely enter the bike lane in front of the cyclist, they should slow down and enter the bike lane behind the cyclist.

genec

In California and in many states, drivers are supposed to merge into the BL and get as close to the curb as possible before making a turn... so not only is it legal, it is required.

That drivers don't do this is merely proof that they do not fully understand their roles as operators of vehicles.

In Oregon the law is different, and motorists are supposed to only cross BL.

genec

required

pitchpole

The main problem is that there is very little driver education in this country. Before I read that section in the improvement course I had no idea you were supposed to enter the bike lane near intersections for turning right. The course did not state that merging far right into the bike lane was required only that it was allowed and did not elaborate on why this is a good idea. I have a coworker who was ticketed for entering the bike lane to turn right so that caused me to wonder whether the course material had been accurate. Too bad he simply paid the ticket and did not research it or take it to court.

Digital_Cowboy

I presume that you are talking about right hand turns, right? IF the bike lane was laid out "correctly" it should pass to the left of the right hand turn lane not to the right of it, and/or it should transition from a solid line to a dashed line the closer to the intersection one gets.

noisebeam

At the intersection approach shouldn't the stripe just be removed entirely? What good does the bike lane do that it still needs to be marked with a dashed line?

sudo bike

That's correct, and that's how it's done here.

Well, the idea is it shows that the lane is "merging" out of the bike lane and into the through traffic lane (and not continuing on the right of traffic), and the through traffic lane is able to merge right in order to make their turn. So, essentially, you are taking the lane through every intersection as you should be anyway.

I actually love this setup... never even come close to being right hooked in most areas because we have our driver's so well trained to merge right, THEN turn (probably one of the few things we've been able to beat into their head. Well, that and pulling into an intersection for a left unprotected turn).

Sort of like this:

Google Maps

The "weave" between vehicles turning right and bikes will always have to happen at some point (unless it's a take the lane situation), but I think this is one the safest ways to do it.

genec

Right hand turn lanes don't exist everywhere... sometimes the BL is just dashed right before the intersection, that is the area where a merge should take place.

The real problem is that we don't teach beginning drivers how to do this and how treat other road users... drivers' ed is a joke and this is the easiest country in the world to get and hold a driver's license. Road engineers and laws focus on flow, not safety.... and drivers think they own the road.

sudo bike

Since I just posted it in another thread, here's an example.

Driver's ed is definitely a bad joke - but people merging right before a turn seems to be well done, at least here. Like I said, that and pulling into an intersection to make an unprotected left are the few things people tend to do without fail.

genec

Well folks in Fresno may be merging, but I have seen quite the opposite down here in Southern California... even to the extent of motorists pulling around cyclists who have a BL to the left of the RTOL, and then the motorist realizes they need to be in the RTOL and can't figure out what to do.

Below is an example of a well laid out BL, that even has a sensor in it to trigger the light. Note that it becomes dashed, then continues on to the left of the RTOL... and yet I have seen motorists come right up along beside the BL where the BL is beside the RTOL, and the motorists trys to turn into the RTOL.
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=f...86.59,,1,11.51

This action occurs because the motorist is not paying attention, is not planning ahead, and may not be well trained in the first place. I think too that this sort of bad driving is due to freeway mentality borne of driving high speed roads... this is just north of a 50MPH section of road. Such 50MPH arterial roads dominate the So Cal environment.

Below is an example of a BL that dashes and ends before the intersection, but there is no RTOL, in this case the motorist is supposed to merge into the BL and then turn right, from as close to the curb as practical.

https://maps.google.com/maps?client=f...,2.35,,0,20.24