electrik

Another common issue with bike lanes is poor visibility due to cyclist position at intersections... Is there a solution to this? Motorists gun the left especially on busy multi-lane roads when there is a gap in traffic but cyclists will often get caught and left-hooked since the motorist is too focused on oncoming traffic they never look to see if a cyclist has already entered the intersection. The more lanes the worse this problem is. Just thought i'd post my cool drawing to help illustrate the dead-zone.

EDIT: To the poster still complaining about the inaccurate diagram, sorry i can't find a way to remove it! So keep complaining!

SECOND EDIT: Cause of left cross has been solved to my satisfaction, thanks.

genec

OK so what if the white stripe of paint wasn't there... the cyclist would still be to the far right, and maybe in the center of the rightmost lane... as your illustration shows, that cyclist is still invisible to the left turning motorist. Thus bike lanes are not the cause... cyclists being hidden by other traffic is the cause.

-100.

electrik

-100 ?

electrik

I think bike lanes make this left-hook problem worse and for me it always seems to be an issue on roads with bike-lanes.

dynodonn 

The only way that I've found to be very effective in reducing left hooks when in a bike lane was with high powered lighting at night and switching to strobe during the day. Bright clothing helps as well as better lane positioning, but bright/strobe lighting really goes a long way in getting a motorist attention, something I've learned years ago from my motorcycling days.

cudak888 

Bike lanes are not pertinent to left hooks.

Bike lanes are pertinent to right hooks.

-Kurt

ghettocruiser

In the illustration you provided, the sight line appears to be blocked by another vehicle proceeding through the intersection at the same time as the cyclist. Assuming the left-turning car isn't going to ram that car into you, what difference does it make whether that car sees you or not? They just need to see the car that's going through the intersection at the same time as you, unless there is a massive speed difference between the two of you.

There are few or no bike lanes where I ride (North York, Scarborough, Markham) and I get left-cross traffic issues anyways.

Sometimes being on the left side of the right through-lane helps, but it has caused me these problems:

1. When the motorist is watching pedestrians crossing in the crosswalk to your right, you are further from their line of sight by being out from the curb. This is particularly problematic since drivers tend to start the turn even seeing pedestrians crossing, and then stop abruptly before the X-walk, totally blocking the right through lane.

2. When running on the left side of the right through-lane, you are closer to, and more likely to be hidden by, same-direction traffic in the lane to your left. This isn't a problem if the motorists in this lane are also driving straight through the intersection with you (as per your drawing), but if they signal ahead of time to make a left turn, the oncoming driver will be hitting the gas for their left turn just as you 'pop' into view.

These are not theoretical constructions, these are real incidents that are burned into my brain.



And of course, some drivers just pull out with no feasible explanation, like that driver who tagged me last week (a right-cross, though) who somehow failed to see my 500-lumen HID. I was in the left tire track for that one, too.

gcottay

Did you make it through that one unscathed?

electrik

Yes being on the left is an issue also... esp with your second point

My worry is that when you are further to the right the "Dead zone" is larger than when you are left, of course the more lanes the large the zone... but i often have the problem when "running a green" that a car will pass on the left and you will disappear for x seconds and then re-appear right while entering the intersection.

The problems that caused me to write this aren't exactly on a two lane road either, it is a single lane which opens up to a triple with the right most lane being a right-hand turn lane and the bicycle lane being on the furthest right... so essentially i am moving deeper into the dead-zone as i approach the intersection at speed with traffic... It happens frequently that drivers just start turning.... maybe they think i am going to turn right like the cars in that lane beside me would??

I already have hiviz **** on... really i don't think dressing up like ronald mcdonald at a rave is going to help.

ghettocruiser

Let's name names. Google streetview it.

electrik

Actually the re-done intersection i was thinking about isn't on streetview since it is brand new(with the bike lanes)

I was looking for another intersection that is similar... anyway it is a single lane with a bike lane and a parking lane on either side. When the road comes to this busy cross-street the street it then opens up to a left-turn,straight,right-turn and then a bike lane... On further reflection i think it looks like any cyclist is about to turn right since the bicycle lane turns right to accomodate the new right-turn lane. This is probably why all the left-hooks.

edit: right hooks too, haha.

Bekologist

Left CROSS potential is present regardless of how the road is striped.

how should cities best plan for bicycle traffic on roads where there will be significant traffic and speed differential between bikes and cars?


leave the road unfriendly for bikes but force bicyclists to take the lane anyway, or make a road cooridor more amenable to bicycling with preferred class lanes and considerate intersection treatments to help emphasize bike traffic along that travel cooridor?

at 30 km/hr speed limits sure, bikes in the lane makes sense. 70km/hr, it makes no sense at all if you want to truly consider all types of bicyclists in the road mix.

the 'model cyclist' cities need to consider in the road mix - seniors on trikes. NOT the 'i'm not afraid to take the lane in front of traffic moving 3 times my speed' cyclists like most of us regular posters.

electrik

Yeah i know it is difficult to design roads.

The conclusion i have come to is that this lane would be safer if the bike-lane went straight and the right-hand turn lane opened up on the right of the bicycle lane... this way motorists could turn right while i wait in the bike lane and oncoming traffic would not mistake my movement towards the right in order to follow the meandering bike-lane as a right-turn.. As it stands now this lane is increasing the risk of a left-hook though not for the reasons i wrote in the op.

genec

Sure, OP assigns blame but posts diagram that shows exactly why his blame is wrong. Rather than the usual +1 or +10 or whatever for a good post... this one gets -100 for being exactly wrong.

ghettocruiser

My pant leg cleaned some road salt off her front bumper, but I stayed up.

cudak888 

That still has zero effect on left-hooks, and simply moves the potentials for right-hooks to a location 50 or 60 feet before the intersection.

-Kurt

Metzinger

You're asking for a lot of road width. Presumably it would be good to have a left specific lane too, so cars don't swing out into the bike lane to get past a stationary left turn lineup?
That's a tough one. I can't think of many TO intersections where this would easily work. Or are you just opposed to bike lanes in principle?

Do you have a specific intersection and direction of travel in mind where you think this left hook problem is particularly evident?

San Rensho 

Its really easy, just take the lane at every intersection even if there is a bike path. Get out of the bike path well before the intersection and take up the whole right hand lane. Oncoming cars will be much less likely to hit you.

noisebeam

Ride thru intersections far left biased in lane so you can have a clear line of sight to opposing left turn lane.

That is what I do dozens of times a day.

jefferee

The collision mode you describe is called a left cross, not a left hook. A "left hook" is similar to a right hook, but occurs in places such as the UK, where traffic stays to the left-hand side of the road.

I agree that a through bike lane should be to the left of any right-turn-only lane, but if you're thinking that RTOLs should be at all intersections on roads with bike lanes, that's just not going to happen.

genec

While I don't disagree with what you guys have posted... please do take a look at the illustration in the OP... if you are in the "zone" in that cone of invisibility behind that car in the left lane, while you are left biased in the right lane, you are still invisible. Just something to keep in mind.

For this reason, I like to cross busy multilaned intersections with a "shield vehicle... " so center in the right lane, (keeps you visible to RTOR motorists) but cross the intersection with a car in your left lane acting as a blocker.

noisebeam

Timing and situational awareness. Ride at all times so you either have a clear view of the left turning vehicle or vehicles traveling the same direction as you are blockers. Easier done than said.

kabersch

Since we know the possibility of a left hook exists, we as bike riders need to watch for them and do our best to avoid them. It's great to say we have the same rights a vehicles, but those rights won't keep us alive or out of the hospital. Ride defensively. If you know you may not be seen, keep an eye on the left turning vehicle and change your speed and/or direction to avoid him if he hooks you. You could even stop and let him proceed. I'd rather live through the ride than force my rights on someone. I drive like this, too. I'm less concerned with who has the right-of-way than with how to avoid a collision.

Share the road.

Digital_Cowboy

If I read this correctly, are you saying that bicycle lane runs between the curb and right turn lane instead of along the left side of the right turn lane? If so, what genius thought of that?

mikeybikes

I wanna have a serious talking to the genius that designed this bike lane:
https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...00284&t=k&z=19

Look at the east bound lanes of E Orchard Rd. The bike lane only exists when its to the right of a RTOL. It is like it appears to have the sole purpose of putting cyclists in a dangerous situation. The two times I rode through there, I simply took the lane.