Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-18-10, 10:54 AM   #1
MTBLover
But on the road more
Thread Starter
 
MTBLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe '07
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It seems like every report of a bike crash or death...

... mentions whether or not the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Yet, it's rare to see a report on a motor vehicle crash that mentions seat belts. Here's a perfect example. As unfortunate as this accident was, the deaths could likely have been prevented, and the occupants' ejections from the vehicle could almost certainly have been prevented, were they wearing seat belts. Yet no mention whatsoever. Typical.
MTBLover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-10, 11:24 AM   #2
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Almost all of the news stories that I see or hear mention whether seat belts were on.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-10, 12:19 PM   #3
marmot
Senior Member
 
marmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Bikes: Kona Dew Drop, Specialized Expedition Sport
Posts: 439
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Almost all of the news stories that I see or hear mention whether seat belts were on.
Me too.
marmot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-10, 01:00 PM   #4
MTBLover
But on the road more
Thread Starter
 
MTBLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe '07
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Almost all of the news stories that I see or hear mention whether seat belts were on.
Not so much in Philly. It is true, however, that whenever a house fire is reported, the media almost always mentions something about smoke detectors.
MTBLover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-10, 01:53 PM   #5
closetbiker
Senior Member
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well, with all the press going on about deaths being caused by head injuries, and helmets being able to prevent 85% of head injuries (cough, cough ) it's an natural association.

Too bad the conventional wisdom is not only not exactly right, but misleading in what the important factors are to prevent such tragedies.

Last edited by closetbiker; 04-18-10 at 02:19 PM.
closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-10, 03:15 PM   #6
MTBLover
But on the road more
Thread Starter
 
MTBLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe '07
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
well, with all the press going on about deaths being caused by head injuries, and helmets being able to prevent 85% of head injuries (cough, cough ) it's an natural association.

Too bad the conventional wisdom is not only not exactly right, but misleading in what the important factors are to prevent such tragedies.
Indeed!!!
MTBLover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-10, 06:51 PM   #7
DX-MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's all part of the safety nanny propaganda machine -- surprised Philly isn't on the bandwagon.

Helmet use (some states require, some don't), smoke detectors (CO & radon, as well), seat belts, air bags, baby seats/booster seats... it's an extension of the movers and shakers trying to herd the rest of us into neat, manageable pens and pastures, (Look up the history of the Pledge of Allegiance, it'll shock you.) like good little sheep.
DX-MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-10, 07:09 PM   #8
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
It's all part of the safety nanny propaganda machine -- surprised Philly isn't on the bandwagon.

Helmet use (some states require, some don't), smoke detectors (CO & radon, as well), seat belts, air bags, baby seats/booster seats... it's an extension of the movers and shakers trying to herd the rest of us into neat, manageable pens and pastures, (Look up the history of the Pledge of Allegiance, it'll shock you.) like good little sheep.
Yeah the damn government is conspiring to keep people alive longer. Bunch of commies telling us we can't throw our own babies out a window!

__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-10, 07:22 PM   #9
closetbiker
Senior Member
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Yeah the damn government is conspiring to keep people alive longer. Bunch of commies telling us we can't throw our own babies out a window!

Oh dear. Don't tell me you're suggesting helmets have made a difference in deaths to cyclists.

If the government wanted people to live longer, they'd get more of them out on bikes more often.
closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-10, 07:24 PM   #10
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
Oh dear. Don't tell me you're suggesting helmets have made a difference in deaths to cyclists.

If the government wanted people to live longer, they'd get more of them out on bikes more often.
Read the post I was replying to. He barely mentioned helmets.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-10, 09:02 PM   #11
closetbiker
Senior Member
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 9,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Read the post I was replying to. He barely mentioned helmets.
OK. Maybe I missed something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
It's all part of the safety nanny propaganda machine -- Helmet use...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Yeah the damn government is conspiring to keep people alive longer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
Oh dear. Don't tell me you're suggesting helmets have made a difference in deaths to cyclists...
maybe not?

Last edited by closetbiker; 04-19-10 at 09:18 PM.
closetbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-10, 09:07 PM   #12
electrik
Single-serving poster
 
electrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 5,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Seatbelt rage!
electrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-10, 10:28 PM   #13
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
OK. Maybe I missed something...

maybe not?
Dude, you missed the best part about the barnyard animals and radon detectors and the Pledge of Allegiance.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-10, 12:33 AM   #14
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Posts: 9,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTBLover View Post
... mentions whether or not the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Yet, it's rare to see a report on a motor vehicle crash that mentions seat belts. Here's a perfect example. As unfortunate as this accident was, the deaths could likely have been prevented, and the occupants' ejections from the vehicle could almost certainly have been prevented, were they wearing seat belts. Yet no mention whatsoever. Typical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Almost all of the news stories that I see or hear mention whether seat belts were on.
How do you know that they weren't wearing them and both driver and passenger side seat-belts experienced a catastrophic failure at the same time? I admit that it would be unusual for it to happen, but I would also imagine that it isn't totally unheard of either.

And as Roody said most of the stories I've heard also mention seat-belt usage even if it's in passing.

There was recently an "accident" down here in Florida involving the son of a well known TV personality. His son was and a friend had been at a club drinking (I think that both might have been underage at the time, but I didn't really follow it that well).

The son was driving somewhat recklessly, and ended up crashing his souped up car. His passenger was ejected for not wearing a seat-belt and can't walk now. There followed a rather lengthy trial, the son was in jail, the parents divorced, portions of the father and sons jailhouse conversation were taken and used out of context.

If you ask me in a case like that the passenger who wasn't wearing a seat-belt is also responsible for their injuries. I mean had he been wearing one his injuries probably wouldn't have been as severe as they were. I mean the driver walked away, but not the passenger, and (again) if I remember correctly the driver was wearing a seat-belt.
Digital_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-10, 04:35 AM   #15
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Bikes:
Posts: 6,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTBLover View Post
... mentions whether or not the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Yet, it's rare to see a report on a motor vehicle crash that mentions seat belts. Here's a perfect example. As unfortunate as this accident was, the deaths could likely have been prevented, and the occupants' ejections from the vehicle could almost certainly have been prevented, were they wearing seat belts. Yet no mention whatsoever. Typical.
Big deal. Seriously, you're getting into a twist over something as petty as whether news articles state if a helmet was evident?

When faced with a situation such as yours, here is the time proven remedy I employ: Full length mirror. Stand facing the mirror, hands on hip. Brace yourself. Punch yourself repeatedly in the crotch. Move on.
__________________
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
dobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-10, 06:44 AM   #16
MTBLover
But on the road more
Thread Starter
 
MTBLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe '07
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobber View Post
Big deal. Seriously, you're getting into a twist over something as petty as whether news articles state if a helmet was evident?

When faced with a situation such as yours, here is the time proven remedy I employ: Full length mirror. Stand facing the mirror, hands on hip. Brace yourself. Punch yourself repeatedly in the crotch. Move on.
1. Hardly in a twist- just pointing out the obvious, which you seem to have completely missed: there's a difference in how MV and bike crashes (and in particular the use of protective devices) are reported. That's all.

2. I prefer to slap myself in the face- works ever time. Crotch punches are reserved for the really important stuff.
MTBLover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-10, 10:15 AM   #17
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobber View Post
Big deal. Seriously, you're getting into a twist over something as petty as whether news articles state if a helmet was evident?

When faced with a situation such as yours, here is the time proven remedy I employ: Full length mirror. Stand facing the mirror, hands on hip. Brace yourself. Punch yourself repeatedly in the crotch. Move on.
Actually, it is a big deal. For one thing there's a lot of controversy about the effectiveness of helmets. For another thing, some people believe that encouraging helmet use portrays cycling as a more dangerous activity than it really is. This perception probably leads to some of the efforts to push cyclists off the streets that we've been seeing lately.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-10, 05:09 PM   #18
DX-MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
How do you know that they weren't wearing them and both driver and passenger side seat-belts experienced a catastrophic failure at the same time? I admit that it would be unusual for it to happen, but I would also imagine that it isn't totally unheard of either.

And as Roody said most of the stories I've heard also mention seat-belt usage even if it's in passing.

There was recently an "accident" down here in Florida involving the son of a well known TV personality. His son was and a friend had been at a club drinking (I think that both might have been underage at the time, but I didn't really follow it that well).

The son was driving somewhat recklessly, and ended up crashing his souped up car. His passenger was ejected for not wearing a seat-belt and can't walk now. There followed a rather lengthy trial, the son was in jail, the parents divorced, portions of the father and sons jailhouse conversation were taken and used out of context.

If you ask me in a case like that the passenger who wasn't wearing a seat-belt is also responsible for their injuries. I mean had he been wearing one his injuries probably wouldn't have been as severe as they were. I mean the driver walked away, but not the passenger, and (again) if I remember correctly the driver was wearing a seat-belt.
I hear tell the "personality" is back at the old career, too -- does he still put his hand to his ear and then flex for five minutes?
DX-MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-10, 01:32 AM   #19
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Posts: 9,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
I hear tell the "personality" is back at the old career, too -- does he still put his hand to his ear and then flex for five minutes?
I've seen him as pitchman for a nation wide rental store. And I have it on good authority that he's back in the ring again so who knows maybe he is.
Digital_Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-10, 09:22 AM   #20
frymaster
Senior Member
 
frymaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where the mild things roam
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Yeah the damn government is conspiring to keep people alive longer. Bunch of commies telling us we can't throw our own babies out a window!
that's a slippery slope there, and you know it. laws about smoke detectors and seatbelts and such are not directly related to laws against homicide.
frymaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:38 AM.