Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Senior Member mikeybikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Edgewater, CO
    My Bikes
    Tons
    Posts
    3,057
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Running the red during a Barnes Dance

    Do you run a red during a Barnes Dance aka Pedestrian Scramble?

    A good portion of the lights in Downtown Denver have a pedestrian crossing phase... I admit, I run 'em, while yielding to the peds.
    My Bikes: 2009 Breezer Uptown EX | 1980 Miyata 610 | 1970 Hercules | 198? Miele ?
    Wife's Bike: 2008 Globe City 7

    My Blog, a mix of bicycling, tech, and family.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    1,621
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeshoup View Post
    Do you run a red during a Barnes Dance aka Pedestrian Scramble?

    A good portion of the lights in Downtown Denver have a pedestrian crossing phase... I admit, I run 'em, while yielding to the peds.
    That's what the vast majority of bicyclists do in Denver. I've argued that your behavior should be formally legalized, in order to give the careful and considerate riders a little more freedom, and make it easier to crack down on those who don't yield to peds or who otherwise charge into intersections unsafely.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    2009 Specialized Sirrus
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had no idea that had a name.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    438
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Around here we can cross when the whole crossing is pedestrian only as long as we dismount. I don't dismount but I do slow down to where I'm moving about as fast as the peds. It amazes me how little they pay attention though. I've nearly been knocked off my bikes by peds running across such intersections looking the other way! This doesn't piss me off too much but it just strikes me as incredibly stupid.

  5. #5
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,724
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Interesting comments on Wiki concerning this sort of signal phasing.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    The pedestrian scramble has advantages and disadvantages. It requires vehicular traffic in all directions to stop, losing time for motorists and reducing an intersection's vehicular capacity, although it may be mitigated by time gained removing pedestrian signals across individual streets.
    Shows a clear bias for vehicular traffic. Yet in the video below, it appears as though there are as many people using the intersection in a pedestrian phase as there are people driving through in a vehicle phase... How is it that people in vehicles have some sort of priority over people walking?
    http://vimeo.com/1626058?pg=embed&sec=1626058

  6. #6
    Senior Member gcottay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Green Valley AZ
    My Bikes
    Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
    Posts
    3,772
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by robertv View Post
    Around here we can cross when the whole crossing is pedestrian only as long as we dismount. I don't dismount but I do slow down to where I'm moving about as fast as the peds. It amazes me how little they pay attention though. I've nearly been knocked off my bikes by peds running across such intersections looking the other way! This doesn't piss me off too much but it just strikes me as incredibly stupid.
    Is it the not dismounting you find stupid or the pedestrians who act as if there were no vehicular traffic to worry about?
    George
    Laissez les bon temps rouler

  7. #7
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
    Posts
    4,077
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'll follow pedestrians signals. If they're valid for trails then they are valid on streets as well.
    Cycling Advocate
    http://BaltimoreSpokes.org
    . . . o
    . . /L
    =()>()

  8. #8
    rwp
    rwp is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    400
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by robertv View Post
    Around here we can cross when the whole crossing is pedestrian only as long as we dismount. I don't dismount but I do slow down to where I'm moving about as fast as the peds. It amazes me how little they pay attention though. I've nearly been knocked off my bikes by peds running across such intersections looking the other way! This doesn't piss me off too much but it just strikes me as incredibly stupid.
    If they do knock you off your bike, who gets the ticket? Who's legally responsible for injuries? I'm guessing it's you.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    397
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Interesting comments on Wiki concerning this sort of signal phasing.



    Shows a clear bias for vehicular traffic. Yet in the video below, it appears as though there are as many people using the intersection in a pedestrian phase as there are people driving through in a vehicle phase... How is it that people in vehicles have some sort of priority over people walking?
    http://vimeo.com/1626058?pg=embed&sec=1626058
    In the words of wikipedia itself, be bold. Rewrite it if you have the time and inclination.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    6,191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Interesting comments on Wiki concerning this sort of signal phasing.



    Shows a clear bias for vehicular traffic. Yet in the video below, it appears as though there are as many people using the intersection in a pedestrian phase as there are people driving through in a vehicle phase... How is it that people in vehicles have some sort of priority over people walking?
    http://vimeo.com/1626058?pg=embed&sec=1626058
    That would depend on the intersection and the traffic flow. Move that to an intersection out of a downtown area and see what happens. I think that having all the pedestrians go at the same time would get more vehicles through the intersection for each green light, if the total light sequence was the same as before.
    Silver Eagle Pilot

  11. #11
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,724
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dchiefransom View Post
    That would depend on the intersection and the traffic flow. Move that to an intersection out of a downtown area and see what happens. I think that having all the pedestrians go at the same time would get more vehicles through the intersection for each green light, if the total light sequence was the same as before.
    Not to mention far safer for the pedestrians who don't have to worry about an errant motorist making a right on red without checking for peds.

  12. #12
    Senior Member mikeybikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Edgewater, CO
    My Bikes
    Tons
    Posts
    3,057
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Not to mention far safer for the pedestrians who don't have to worry about an errant motorist making a right on red without checking for peds.
    On many downtown Denver intersections you can still turn on red during the ped crossing phase... The Barnes Dance does not help in that regard. I would love to see a no turn on red on all the streets downtown.
    My Bikes: 2009 Breezer Uptown EX | 1980 Miyata 610 | 1970 Hercules | 198? Miele ?
    Wife's Bike: 2008 Globe City 7

    My Blog, a mix of bicycling, tech, and family.

  13. #13
    Randomhead
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,587
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeshoup View Post
    On many downtown Denver intersections you can still turn on red during the ped crossing phase... The Barnes Dance does not help in that regard. I would love to see a no turn on red on all the streets downtown.
    almost seems to make the pedestrian cycle worthless. All of our downtown intersections are no turn on red, which is good because motorists take that as a green light to ignore the signal. We don't have pedestrian scrambles, but they have changed the pedestrian cycles to start before the light changes for the cars. I think it may improve throughput since the pedestrians can go without worrying about aggressive drivers. Before this, the pedestrians would hesitate to move into the intersection because a majority of motorists would ignore them.

  14. #14
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,724
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeshoup View Post
    On many downtown Denver intersections you can still turn on red during the ped crossing phase... The Barnes Dance does not help in that regard. I would love to see a no turn on red on all the streets downtown.
    That just doesn't make sense. Yet another example of bias against pedestrians...

    This should be a no right turn situation!

  15. #15
    Crankenstein bmclaughlin807's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Spokane
    My Bikes
    Novara Randonee (TankerBelle)
    Posts
    4,038
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Due to the mix of laws in Denver and Colorado you can legally ride your bike through an intersection during the all-red pedestrian only phase... so long as you're in the crosswalk.

    It's illegal to ride on the sidewalks in Denver, but it's NOT illegal to ride in the crosswalks... you're not even required to dismount, as that law was repealed 5 years ago. (Used to be that sidewalks were illegal under city law and you were required to dismount to enter a crosswalk under state law... state law was repealed and city law was never updated to add anything specific for crosswalks) State law states that bicycles on the sidewalk and crosswalks are considered pedestrians... required to follow pedestrian rules and regulations.
    "There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •