noisebeam

Thanks. I had fun writing that.

I have yet to encounter a driver ahead who may turn in front of me who does not respond to me riding in lane with flashing headlight in daylight or steady at night. I know at some point a driver will overlook me, but so far not yet. I watch for it every time.

Even before I used the daylight flashing head light I didn't get overlooked, although on occasion it was a 2nd take with some hesitation. With the flashing light I get almost too strong a response. Drivers wait for me when they had plenty of time not to.

genec

That's why quick glances are bad... look twice, then perhaps the something that should be, will be, but just wasn't where you thought it might be, or it could be something else.

Roody

It's not only bike lanes. I had a similar incident to the OP while I was riding centered in a regular lane with no other traffic on the road at the time. A driver stopped at her stop sign, looked both ways, and pulled right out in front of me, even though I was wearing a brand-new, *very bright* orange T-shirt. When I started to give her my full-blown safety rant, she broke into tears and said, "I didn't see you, I didn't see you!" She was a young woman, and in subsequent discussion did not appear to be impaired.

noisebeam

Right, but looking well in the wrong place doesn't help either.

I find when cycling I need to consiously remind myself to look not only at the shared travel lanes, but the bike lane as well when making right or left turns. It feels like it takes a different kind of look - almost separate from scanning the shared lanes, you see a gap there, then you check the bike lane. Even sometimes I turn left across a gap in traffic and I think afterward... did I even look at the bike lane? I don't know if I am overly sensitive to it or if I really do sometimes overlook the bike lane.

crhilton

I think there are two issues:
* Intersections
* Traffic behind you

At an intersection, reguardless of lane position you need to "have an out" as my old drivers ed teacher would say. Even in a car, sometimes you "came out of nowhere." Some may believe that being farther out makes you more visible, and maybe it does. I usually ride farther out as I travel more quickly for various reasons:
1. I want plenty of room when they pass me at high speed.
2. I want room to veer, and I can get that on the right by riding farther from the curb.
3. There's less crap in the road as you move farther left.
4. I think people can see me better at intersections if I'm farther out from the curb.


As far as people from behind goes, I seem to deal with fewer crazy hail mary buzzing passes if I move out a bit. It seems to tell them "hey, you can't squeeze by if necessary." You know, those passes where there's oncoming traffic that they barely miss partially because they're crowding you, partially because oncoming traffic moves over, and partially because they sped up to make it.

I rarely move out past the right hand tire track. I don't know if that's "taking the lane."

As I said earlier, I'm a big fan of what my drivers ed teacher taught me: "Have an out." Now I can't do that with traffic behind me, but I can usually do that at an intersection.

And I agree that uncompromisingly taking the lane is rude. Whether it's necessary for safety may be debatable, but it's definitely rude.

crhilton

Only this year I realized I've been ignoring a bike path intersection for years. It's an intersection with a separated path (which I'm on), a road, and a widened sidewalk (which is technically a path). I ignore the widened sidewalk because:
1. No one is ever on it.
2. No one is ever on it.

But somebody could be. It's hard to think to look there when you never get a reward for it.

genec

Interesting that you said...
"I find when cycling I need to consciously remind myself to look not only at the shared travel lanes, but the bike lane as well..."

I do this when walking and driving also... and I look twice...

OK my first response was somewhat in jest to your fine quip, but what I am really saying is that all too often folks tend to do a quick glance or scan... and those mental filters are supposed to do the rest.

The basic problem is that often we don't give the mental filters enough data and we don't wait for them to process that data. Looking twice, even if it is another scan... can highlight things that were missed the first time, and things that are moving but were not noticed. "Look twice" also gives the mental filters a moment more to process. It's just a good habit to get into... and maintain anywhere/anytime.

LOOK TWICE. Save lives. (yeah, I just made that up... )

noisebeam

Well yeah of course I do it motoring as well - and walking. I just mentioned cycling as in 'even when cycling' where my mindset should be cycling focused more than when driving or walking. Yeah I look twice or multiple times.

I also stop at the marked stop line before entering a roadway, look both ways twice, then move forward if needed for appropriate sight lines and look twice again. A great habit as even if you are tired or in a hurry you at least habitually stop before crossing a point of conflict. It practically forces a double look.

mconlonx

Motorists will continue not seeing us (and pedestrians, and motorcyclists) until they start losing licenses and going to jail for right of way violations which result in collision, injury, and/or death.

rumrunn6

I'm getting better at looking back to see what traffic is overtaking me. and I noticed the funniest thing. when a driver sees me turn around they almost feel like they've been busted and their planned route changes, meaning: they slow down and give me more courtesy room. I LOVE IT!

genec

Agreed... darn good habit... especially when tired... when it is just too easy to overlook someone/something.

genec

Frankly I am STILL in favor of permanent loss of license in the event of death, depending on fault investigation. Although sadly, far too many investigators tend to just assume cyclists are automatically at fault, just for being on the road.

I think that when a death is part of the collision equation, we need to do more than simply go the "remorse" route.

chipcom 

Was she hawt? Crying young women are usually hawt.

Digital_Cowboy

Roody,

I think that it is probably safe to say that at one time or another. All we can really do is to make ourselves as visible as possible. If that means wearing bright and/or "loud" clothing, flashing light during the day as well as lane position than that is what we have to do.

At least she wasn't impaired.

I think that I mentioned that a couple of years ago that I had something kind of similar happen to me as I was pulling out of a parking lot. I had this dumb broad pull up on my left side to make a right turn. A black pickup truck on the road stops to let her out, I throw my hands up and go "What am I invisible?" Her response was "I thought you were going straight."

Hmm, even IF I was going straight and she's making a right turn doesn't logic suggest that she is likely to "right hook" me as she is making her turn? Plus in preparation for my right turn I was closer to the right side of the driveway. And no, since that one gal I haven't had problems with that driveway. And actually have had two gals make a hole for me to get out onto the road, as well as two others not understanding what my left arm sticking out means offered to allow me to proceed forward.

Chris516

I agree that she wasn't intentionally stupid but, habitually stupid. Regardless of whether (for some god-awful reason) I am riding on the sidewalk or, walking on the sidewalk, people in vehicles are more concerned about entering the traffic, than they are about blocking the sidewalk.

Roody

Well, I'm of the other orientation, but yeah, I would say she was probably hawt. The tears sure worked. I didn't get all sarcastic and huffy with her like I wanted to.

rumrunn6

almost became road kill this morning when a tractor trailer passed me. I tried to catch him at the next light but he knew I was gunning for him. good thing I couldn't catch him cuz I was gonna rip his throat out. he saw me and he knows his truck but still! MF! he moved out to pass me but then moved his cab back in toward to shoulder and of course his trailer followed and I watched my lane for travel get smaller and smaller and smaller until it disappeared in front of me. if he had been off by a couple feet and if I didn't gradually move right closer to the shoulder I would have been a bloody unrecognizable mess

thehick

You guys are trying to make every car/bike incident personal. I know it's more fun to rant but it sounds silly. I have a little car. A van moved into my lane today on the highway. My nose was at his driver's door. I might have been in his blind spot. He might have been a she. The driver might have been from a country where driving is not part of the culture (like most non-euro heritage countries).

Was I mad? Nope. I'm pretty alert sometimes. I saw him getting closer and TOO CLOSE so I leaned on the horn and the brakes. Ahead I saw him do another poor lane change. I made a short prayer that some other vehicle would cut him off. Another van did. There. We're even. Let it go. Turn the radio up. There are unlimited numbers of people with no intellect driving. I'd suggest staying out of their way. Literally, they will never learn.

thehick

i've been watching The Office episodes a lot lately. And I know they're in between seasons. So, bear with me, are you Kevin?

chipcom 

You know that I know that...but hawt is orientation independent - just cuz you may not have wanted her for recreational purposes doesn't mean that you couldn't have been looking out for your friends. See how you are?

dynodonn 

Elderly drivers are the largest portion of drivers who pull out in front of me, and with our auto designed landscape, it makes it very difficult for them to give up driving altogether. Usually, it's after numerous fender benders or one or two major collisions, that most elderly drivers are forced to give it up.

JoeyBike

To many motorists there are two types of objects that they encounter: Moving objects, and non-moving objects.

Moving objects include cars, buses, trains, tractor trailers, and sometimes motorcycles. Non-moving objects include fire hydrants, street signs, light and telephone poles, cyclists and pedestrians.

Most likely that woman's eyes saw you, her brain interpreted you as a "non-moving" object. Just like a right hook. Motorists who right hook cyclists assume the biker is not actually moving after they pass them. Same with motorists crossing intersections. And you compound the problem by riding too far right at 12 mph. Next time you think crossing traffic might not see you, try moving over in your lane (if it's safe) away from them. If the car is crossing in front of you from right to left, move over to the far left of your lane or better yet, move as far left as you can if no traffic is coming up behind you as it is very hard to judge the speed of a relatively small object on the road (a cyclist) coming STRAIGHT at you.

Glad you avoided collision tho.

Spire

And/or killing someone.

pipes

Since I was hit and run I have had a air zound and they work on the idiots +1

rando

This.

to most motorists you are invisible. They really don't see you. I also see cars zooming right in front of Peds about to cross the crosswalk so they can make a right turn. like they didn't even understand that there might be a pedestrian wanting to cross. it's ****ed up out there!