Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-23-04, 03:19 PM   #1
mecredis
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Police Targeting September NYC Critical Mass ride

Here's the story: Bloomberg and the rest of the glorious NYPD are looking to make some arrests tomorow (Friday) night at Critical Mass in New York City. I think they had such a fun time violating the rights of cyclists during the RNC that they just can't stop. I've been on many a ride, and I've never heard of more than one incident with the police. Usually, we all get along. But after the 264 arrests during the RNC, it seems like the NYPD has forgotten this. Suddenly we're a threat... to traffic.

Here's an article from the daily news:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ne...news-headlines

I tried to sign up for the nyc-cm txtmob group (http://www.txtmob.com for more info) but its private and moderated. Anyone on it that could invite me? If so, PM me... or maybe we'll start a new one. I think it'd be a great opportunity to try out the system. Though perhaps txting and cycling isn't the best idea.

SO we're not allowed to ride in a procession? What about automobiles for the rest of the month? They're in a procession of oil consumption...

Any ideas on how to handle the cops? In any case... I'll be there.

Thanks, and stay safe!

F
mecredis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-04, 08:57 PM   #2
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Stop at every red light. Come to a full stop at stop lights. Stay in your lane. Don't run into or cut across pedestrians.
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-04, 09:05 PM   #3
glomarduck
Jazz from Hell
 
glomarduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC Tristero!
Bikes: raleigh watzit & gardin tt road bike U08
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
**** not again
glomarduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-04, 11:24 PM   #4
seely
The Rabbi
 
seely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,088
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
The easiest way to "handle" the cops is to actually ride legally for once. Novel concept, I know.

Sorry I'm just really tired of Critical Mess. Its done nothing but hurt the cycling community. Its a bunch of wanna-be martyrs looking for conflict (despite the fact they say its a peaceful event) so they can be the victims of political oppression. Boohoo. You aren't doing anyone any good by blocking cars on a green light, going through red lights, riding 15 abreast, etc. If the point is to get motorists to respect cyclists thats a really piss poor way of doing it. Motorists entire qualm with cyclists is they feel they inconvenience and slow down motor traffic. What a great way to assuage that fear by inconveniencing and slowing down motor traffic! Brilliant! And then there are those that choose to quarrel with the police, and then when a cyclist actually does get hurt, they come here crying about how the police didn't care. I wonder why? It wouldn't have anything to do with 1,500 angry cyclists calling them facist pigs, would it?

Ok before I get anymore worked up I'm out. Something to think about though.

Jon
seely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 06:56 PM   #5
dereknc
Lone Rider
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Asheboro, North Carolina
Bikes:
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You're absolutely right seely.
dereknc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 07:10 PM   #6
glomarduck
Jazz from Hell
 
glomarduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC Tristero!
Bikes: raleigh watzit & gardin tt road bike U08
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by seely
The easiest way to "handle" the cops is to actually ride legally for once. Novel concept, I know.

Sorry I'm just really tired of Critical Mess. Its done nothing but hurt the cycling community. Its a bunch of wanna-be martyrs looking for conflict (despite the fact they say its a peaceful event) so they can be the victims of political oppression. Boohoo. You aren't doing anyone any good by blocking cars on a green light, going through red lights, riding 15 abreast, etc. If the point is to get motorists to respect cyclists thats a really piss poor way of doing it. Motorists entire qualm with cyclists is they feel they inconvenience and slow down motor traffic. What a great way to assuage that fear by inconveniencing and slowing down motor traffic! Brilliant! And then there are those that choose to quarrel with the police, and then when a cyclist actually does get hurt, they come here crying about how the police didn't care. I wonder why? It wouldn't have anything to do with 1,500 angry cyclists calling them facist pigs, would it?

Ok before I get anymore worked up I'm out. Something to think about though.

Jon
So 5000 riders going in groups of two stretching for miles on end
glomarduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 07:17 PM   #7
twahl
Tom (ex)Builder
 
twahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manassas, VA
Bikes: Specialized Allez
Posts: 2,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by glomarduck
So 5000 riders going in groups of two stretching for miles on end
If 5000 cars can wait for signals and stretch for miles on end, why shouldn't cyclists? Oh, I forgot, cyclists are special because they are trying to make a point, right? I forgot.
twahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 07:34 PM   #8
glomarduck
Jazz from Hell
 
glomarduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC Tristero!
Bikes: raleigh watzit & gardin tt road bike U08
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by twahl
If 5000 cars can wait for signals and stretch for miles on end, why shouldn't cyclists? Oh, I forgot, cyclists are special because they are trying to make a point, right? I forgot.

So I guess your the type who thinks cars don't contribute to global warming and don't think that your doing anything to contribute to global warming. Or that your dependance on saudi oil is funding terrorism; the problem is extreme so the protest should be too. Also it is a magical feeling to ride with thousands of other cyclists with out the threat of cars. Riding in C.M. is quiet, fun, wholesome and completely right. I bet you have never done it and yet you put it down so ravenously.

Last edited by glomarduck; 09-24-04 at 07:44 PM.
glomarduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 08:12 PM   #9
twahl
Tom (ex)Builder
 
twahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manassas, VA
Bikes: Specialized Allez
Posts: 2,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Where in the hell does my statement say or infer anything about global warming?

I agree with the others that say that CM does more to harm the cause of cycling than a dozen Neandertals going through downtown L.A. on tricycles could ever do. The events draw negative attention to cyclists. You may feel all warm and fuzzy about riding with 1000 other people and ignoring traffic signals while screaming to be treated as well or better than motorists and then *****ing about "police harassment", but the rest of us have to deal with all the people that you piss off while we're out there alone, or worse yet riding with our kids. You people need to get over yourselves.
twahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 08:25 PM   #10
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Which part of "obey the law" don't you understand?
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 08:49 PM   #11
glomarduck
Jazz from Hell
 
glomarduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC Tristero!
Bikes: raleigh watzit & gardin tt road bike U08
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slvoid
Which part of "obey the law" don't you understand?

Laws are not always just or right
glomarduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 09:01 PM   #12
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by glomarduck
Laws are not always just or right
Which part of:
Don't run red lights.
Don't block the green.
Don't take the right of way of pedestrians.
Is unjust?
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 09:30 PM   #13
glomarduck
Jazz from Hell
 
glomarduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC Tristero!
Bikes: raleigh watzit & gardin tt road bike U08
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The cops and bloomberg have really gone ape in the last month and they should be promoting cycling. Instead they are painting cyclists as criminals. You know I would like to commute every day to school with out being yelled at and almost hit by cars every morning and not having to breath in smog. Germany has a fantastic system of bike paths THROUGHOUT CITYS not just around the perimeter like here in N.Y.C. I don't see why so many cyclists are against the protests when they are promoting cycling. Oh my god these people are screwing up traffic for a few hours every month, thats a real big deal and oh man how will we survive. Rush hour traffic here is 1000 time worse then C.M. will ever be and it happens every ****ing day.
glomarduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 09:30 PM   #14
toolbox63
Fixer
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Me thinks that ye is destined for a dance with the men in blue.
toolbox63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 09:52 PM   #15
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Still doesn't answer:

Which part of:
Don't run red lights.
Don't block the green.
Don't take the right of way of pedestrians.
Is unjust?

I'm all for advocacy and yes, believe it or not you can get together a group of friends and ride around lawfully without being arrested. I too once had my nose up in the air and thought I also deserved to carry my pissed off angst attitude everywhere. But I'm starting to grow up.

My 25 mile round trip commute to work is pretty uneventful, even through traffic. I have accidents everyonce in a while and sometimes it's my fault, I suck it up and move on. If I break the law, I'm not gonna moan and whine about it. It's like the cyclists who whine about a speeding ticket.
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 10:03 PM   #16
glomarduck
Jazz from Hell
 
glomarduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC Tristero!
Bikes: raleigh watzit & gardin tt road bike U08
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slvoid
Still doesn't answer:

Which part of:
Don't run red lights.
Don't block the green.
Don't take the right of way of pedestrians.
Is unjust?

I'm all for advocacy and yes, believe it or not you can get together a group of friends and ride around lawfully without being arrested. I too once had my nose up in the air and thought I also deserved to carry my pissed off angst attitude everywhere. But I'm starting to grow up.

My 25 mile round trip commute to work is pretty uneventful, even through traffic. I have accidents everyonce in a while and sometimes it's my fault, I suck it up and move on. If I break the law, I'm not gonna moan and whine about it. It's like the cyclists who whine about a speeding ticket.

Your right those are unlawful but C.M. is just using them as a method to get there point out that "whose streets? Our streets" kind of thing and it's rare that you can get a revolution of the ground without breaking the rules at least once in a while. I am really tired of people who just except the world they live in, I look at the world, take it all in and see what I can do to change it (especially through art). This world is ours and we are not just chess pawns in a governmental game. Also man, I am definitely not pissed off, If anything I am usually happy and definitely try to avoid confrontation. You think that certain people are all the same But but they are not.

Last edited by glomarduck; 09-24-04 at 10:09 PM.
glomarduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 10:13 PM   #17
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I kind of know what you're saying but you also made the point that they're using unlawful means as a method to get a point out.
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 01:04 AM   #18
seely
The Rabbi
 
seely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,088
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
I get my point out by riding to work and school everyday, not impeding traffic (or as little as possible) and riding within the law.
seely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 05:59 AM   #19
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by seely
I get my point out by riding to work and school everyday, not impeding traffic (or as little as possible) and riding within the law.
Me too, in fact, I've had coworkers engage me in conversation about it and I've managed to make two of them gain an interest in cycling to work (one lives about 15 min away, the other lives the same distance I do in another direction) as a legit means of transportation.
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 06:16 AM   #20
Daily Commute
Ride the Road
 
Daily Commute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check; hard tail MTB
Posts: 4,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you want to take over the street, follow the same parade permit procedure that every other group uses. Otherwise, follow the traffic rules or don't whine about being arrested for intentionally blocking traffic.
Daily Commute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 07:15 AM   #21
bpohl
Disgruntled Planner
 
bpohl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Downtown Indianapolis
Bikes: Hybrid-Trek 7500 FX, Road- Trek 2300
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The whole critical mass idea, I think, is a good one; yet the way it gets carried out is counterproductive. The reason why so many drivers have no respect for cyclists is that so many have no clue how to ride. By clogging traffic and running red lights with no permit to do so, you are simply saying "we are above the law and we dare you to do anything about it". Yes, you're making a statement, but it's not one that gets anyone else out of his or her car and onto a bike. Instead, they think, "look at these *******s blatantly breaking the law. Someone should just run a few of them over." That, coupled with worng-way cyclists, cyclists who weave around cars for sport, and sidewalk riders, all give the riders who obey laws a bad name. Little wonder so many cyclists get killed in hit and runs.
bpohl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 07:31 AM   #22
mirona
I can't find my pants
 
mirona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UMASS, Amherst/ Swick, MA
Bikes: 07 Specialized Langster Comp,06 Kona King Zing, 06 Specialized Rockhopper Pro Disc; 03 LOOK KG461;(destroyed by suv); 85 Panasonic Team America; 73 Peugeot U0-8; 94 Balance Super B BMX; 04 Diamondback Outlook MTB, Diamondback DBR DH
Posts: 2,331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I too think that the Critical Mass is a good idea that's carried out poorly. Don't you think it would make a much bigger statement if those people in cars saw thousands of cyclists in a nice straight line, signaling, stopping at lights and obeying all the same traffic laws they do? Instead they see a bunch of pompous asses who think they own the road. I thought the idea we were trying to get out was to share it!
mirona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 09:32 AM   #23
twahl
Tom (ex)Builder
 
twahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manassas, VA
Bikes: Specialized Allez
Posts: 2,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by glomarduck
Oh my god these people are screwing up traffic for a few hours every month, thats a real big deal and oh man how will we survive. Rush hour traffic here is 1000 time worse then C.M. will ever be and it happens every ****ing day.
The difference is that the motorists that are stuck in traffic didn't choose to cause an obstruction, and they generally follow traffic signals. I said generally, so don't pick the point. There are simply too many off them in one place at one time, and guarantee that each and every one of them wish that the rest of them weren't there to create a traffic jam. They didn't decide "let's all meet at 14th and Elm and drive around the city creating havoc".

I too agree that the idea "to promote cycling" is outstanding. Critical Mass however doesn't do that. It causes a confrontation with the very people (those in charge, those in positions of power, however you want to view it) that need to be lobbied in order to make changes. Unfortunately in a city like New York, there are these big things called buildings that are very difficult to move. Because of this simple fact, it's hard to add in bike lanes to existing streets or to add separate trails.

There are things that can be improved, like how the police respond to complaints o problems with motorists, increasing awareness among the general public and among employers, dealing better with the issue of bike theft, etc. Some of the energy put into scheduling these "impromptu" rides could be very well put to use actually doing something to help rather than pissing people off.

Anybody that wishes to go anywhere in life, that wants to win friends and influence people, that wants to succeed takes to heart one very simple rule. Don't complain unless you have a solution to offer. What are the solutions offered by Critical Mass in New York? Is this method working toward enacting those solutions? Are the solutions doable? If not, what CAN we do?

Take the religious context out of this and accept it for it's own truthful value: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
twahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 09:41 AM   #24
Phiber
Cyclocrosser.
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Unit Zero
Bikes: '04 Marin Nail Trail, '04 Haro V-3, '05 Soul Monk
Posts: 351
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by glomarduck
So 5000 riders going in groups of two stretching for miles on end
That would look bad ass.
Phiber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 10:11 AM   #25
Bop Bop
The Iceman cometh!
 
Bop Bop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am a 55 year old transplanted NYC'er, who lived in NYC for over 50 years and feel I'm as firmilar with the streets of NYC as any NYC'er. We all know how bad the traffic in NYC is, we all know how poorly some of the intersections are and how congested intersections can be with pedistrians and cars all trying to cross at once. Hell, I didn't like it when I lived there, I doubt if I would like it now.

I know how mad drivers get when traffic is stopped because some politician or dignatary wants to go shopping and the police shut half the city. I know how mad people get when someone has a demonstration and blocks a bridge or street (remember the demonstration a few years ago that closed the Brooklyn Bridge when a young Africian American child was killed by a Hasadiac man, or Sharptons march through Bay Ridge, etc). I've sat in my car counting how many red lights it took to go a block). People got madder and their dislikes grew even worse.

CM, says it wants to change thinks, great!!! Try doing it legally on your rides, and also in the Voting Booths. Support canidates who support your causes, hell run a candidate. Lobby the right people in goverment, support them financially. Hold meetings open to the public to discuss your concerns, get politians to come and speak, listen and answer questions.

Other than ticking lots of NYC'ers off, forcing the city to spend money it does not have on police overtime, courts, etc. you are accomplishing nothing. If CM thinks it's getting people behind it's cause it's so wrong. All it's managing to do is piss off alot of people. How long is it going to be before some of these pissed off people decide to take their frustration out on cyclists (if it has not already happened). Chances are the poor cyclist that will suffer for CM's actions will be some poor innocent person minding his/her business that has no affliation with CM. It's tough enough for cyclists out there already, all CM is doing is making it tougher.
Bop Bop is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:11 AM.