Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-24-02, 10:51 AM   #1
Feldman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 869
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Aggressive Obedience

Been getting sicker and sicker of speeders over the last few years; it seems in these parts (southwestern Washington STate)
the literacy level of drivers is dropping rapidly. Most motorists can't read a simple, clear two-digit number on a big sign. I am deriving more and more pleasure, when operating the ol' environmental destruction device, in driving at precisely the posted speed limit regardless of how many speed-crazed cretins stack up behind me. I'd like to call on any other car-owning cyclists and pedestrians to do the same. F%$ how fast they want to go, let's slow 'em down!
Feldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-02, 11:05 AM   #2
cycletourist
opinionated SOB
 
cycletourist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Branson, Missouri USA
Bikes:
Posts: 968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Feldman,

I do the same thing but not for the same reason.

I believe I am a good driver (everyone does...) but that won't save me from an accident when I am surrounded by lunatics with driver's liscenses. So I deal with the chaos the only way I can... by driving slowly. If something scary happens I have more time to react and (hopefully) take evasive action. If an accident is unavoidable then at least my slower speed reduces the amount of inertia involved so maybe I won't get hurt as bad.

People who drive behind me hate this but I don't care.
cycletourist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-02, 11:11 AM   #3
RonH
Life is good
 
RonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Bikes: 2001 Litespeed Tuscany and 2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO Hi-Mod
Posts: 16,660
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Here in Atlanta we not only have the speeders Feldman is referring to, but stop-sign-runners.

Many motorists cut through my neighborhood to get past a particularly busy intersection. From the point of entry to the exit there are 3 stop signs. But only about one vehicle out of fifty actually stops at any of the stop signs. Some motorists don't even slow down. Their motto must be, "Damn the stop sign! Full speed ahead."

Like Feldman, I love to drive through the neighborhood at the posted speed limit and STOP at each stop sign. I can't tell you how many times I've almost been rear-ended.

Why is everyone in such a hurry? I know they're not all going to some big important meeting with George Dubbya.
__________________


The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. - Psalm 103:8
RonH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-02, 12:27 PM   #4
VegasCyclist
suitcase of courage
 
VegasCyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SoCal (ex Las Vegas, NV)
Bikes:
Posts: 1,010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by RonH
Why is everyone in such a hurry? I know they're not all going to some big important meeting with George Dubbya.


I drive at the posted limit. (when I do drive that is )
but I don't get in other people's way, if they want to drive fast and speed fine with me, the reason is, you really don't know why they are speeding, their wife could be having a baby and they are trying to get to the hospital. guess it's rare, but it's the reason I don't block anyone.
__________________
-VegasCyclist
"Daddy made whiskey and he made it well.... cost two dollars and it burned like hell...."
Register!
VegasCyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-02, 04:29 AM   #5
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't drive, but I get abused quite often for stopping at red lights and especially marked pedestrian crossings. I don't do these things specifically to upset anybody, I do them because it is simply the right and proper thing to do. Those that don't like it can shove it until it bleeds for all I care.
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-02, 04:37 PM   #6
cyclezealot
Senior Member
 
cyclezealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fallbrook,Calif./Palau del Vidre, France
Bikes: Klein QP, Fuji touring, Surly Cross Check, BCH City bike
Posts: 13,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
I refuse to speed up on a two way road because someone behind me wants to go 65 in a 45. yes, you almost do get rear ended.
I suggest as cyclists, in warm weather listen to the comments of the motorists- when their windows are down. it is scarry.!!! I suggest the mandatory need for prozac in our food and water supply. For the minority, who are mentally balanced; we can get waivers at our local organic food store.
Just curious, Chris do you have a drivers license? Welcome back.
cyclezealot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-02, 09:53 PM   #7
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cyclezealot

Just curious, Chris do you have a drivers license? Welcome back.
Purely as a matter of interest, no I don't. I have never bought a car, and thus have never really thought about driving a piece of paper down the road. In any case it doesn't really matter. A driving instructor on the Gold Coast was recently quoted in a newspaper as claiming that if all drivers around here took a driving test right now, "90% would fail".

__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-02, 12:40 AM   #8
LittleBigMan
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Feldman
Been getting sicker and sicker of speeders over the last few years...Most motorists can't read a simple, clear two-digit number on a big sign. I am deriving more and more pleasure...in driving at precisely the posted speed limit...
Feldman,

Don't you know what "Speed Limit" means?

"Speed Limit" (for those who haven't taken Driver's Education)
refers to the minimum speed allowable.

Be advised! Don't let that needle (or digital display, if you're driving something fancy) drop below the posted limit!

But, I'm with you: driving precisely at the posted speed limit
is perfectly LEGAL!



ADDENDUM: I think law enforcement is schizophrenic (did we say that?)
__________________
No worries
LittleBigMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-02, 06:28 AM   #9
john999
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You mean comments like these ? :

YOU CALL THAT DRIVING, YOU STUPID COW ?

COME ON, IT'S AS GREEN AS IT GETS !

THE F*WIT'S WAITING FOR A NICER SHADE OF GREEN !

[like
The Bill GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO !

YELLOW MEANS FLOOR IT, D*HEAD !

LOSER-LOSER-LOSER, LOSER-LOSER-LOSER, LOSER-LOSER-LOSER !

NO ! NO ! THE OTHER ONE ! THE OTHER ONE ! NEXT TO THE BRAKE !
john999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-02, 10:29 PM   #10
Roughstuff
Punk Rock Lives
 
Roughstuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In a cabin in the adirondacks
Bikes: Fuji touring
Posts: 3,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
I'll tell ya Feldman I hate speeders, especially on roads where people live, and that's most of them. The car I am driving is usually rented, or a piece of sh*t, or both; so I don't really care if I risk getting rear ended. If they are on my butt at the speed limit I start going slower. I'm hardly ever in a rush to get somewhere anyway, and in my one horse town (40,000 morons, including yours truly!) why people rush to get to Walmart or some rundown five-and-dime escapes me. Being slow off the light gets them even more pissed off. To me its like a sport.

roughstuff
Roughstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-02, 10:49 PM   #11
cyclezealot
Senior Member
 
cyclezealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fallbrook,Calif./Palau del Vidre, France
Bikes: Klein QP, Fuji touring, Surly Cross Check, BCH City bike
Posts: 13,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
My boss has ocassionally inferred, he is less than happy I bike to work. I just bought a T shirt for him , which I will wear proudly.
'BLOW UP YOUR CAR; RIDE A BIKE..."
The raceway on the way to work is getting so old. Do you ever watch in your mirror the actions of the idiots behind you. They are like trying to predict the lane you might move to so they can move into and ahead of you before you make your lane change. It is really like a race, not a commute. I am getting to despise motorists.
I can't say I slow down to block someone. That could cause instant death to yourself. Mostly, I ask where are the police when someone risks a head-on collision. Just wish there was a way to turn in these morons.
My boss thinks cycling is unsafe. I say there is greater risk being in the vehicular lanes, fighting these lane changers. Most motorists realizing bike lanes are not for car useage and generally don't play their games in bike lanes- but don't count on it.
Seems someone posted safety information on this site saying there are approximately 27 auto accidents per million man hours driven as opposed to about 45 for cyclists.?
ps- Anyone seen the recent movie about road rage, called "Changing Lanes." I will see it tomorrow.
cyclezealot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-02, 10:58 PM   #12
Amir R. Pakdel
Raised by beavers.
 
Amir R. Pakdel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada, Vancouver. Wave if you ever see me.
Bikes:
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I want to add my bit.

In Vancouver, there is a big problem with street racers.

There happens to be a lot of Asians here in Vancouver who drive their "riced up" Japanese pieces of ****e as if they are freaking race car.

And they love to race each other. The sad thing is that every week there are news of street racers, no older than 20 years of age, dead in an accident along with their friends. On some occasions, they have taken the lives of the bystandards as well.

What do you expect? Have you seen a Japanese car commercial that DOESN"T emphasize on speeding??

It's the same deal with my friend. He drives a Toyata SUV, and he has to "race" every other car that appears to be accelerating beside him... and that freaks the hell out of me. I have no clue what he gains from it, and I dunno what the hell to say to him.

It seems to me that as soon as he sits behind the wheel and turns on the igntition he becomes an utter moron. When he gets out of the car and we go working out, he is COMPLETELY different person.

What scares most of all, is: What if I was on my bike on that street just at the time someone like he decideds to "race" with some other moron? Two cars going side by side way over the speed limit and neither will be able to swerve just enough to pass by me.

Either I'll be dead, or 10 other people as they try to avoid me.
Amir R. Pakdel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-02, 11:18 PM   #13
MediaCreations 
Marathon Cyclist
 
MediaCreations's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Bikes: Road Bike / Mountain Bike
Posts: 1,763
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cyclezealot
I just bought a T shirt for him , which I will wear proudly.
'BLOW UP YOUR CAR; RIDE A BIKE..."
Where do I get one?
__________________
MediaCreations is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-02, 11:33 PM   #14
cyclezealot
Senior Member
 
cyclezealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fallbrook,Calif./Palau del Vidre, France
Bikes: Klein QP, Fuji touring, Surly Cross Check, BCH City bike
Posts: 13,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Hello MediaCreations.
The shirt, I think it is great. Expresses my rage as a result of road rage. I bought it at Performance Cyclery ( a chain) in Escondido, Calif. Performance Cycle has a web site.
The shirt identifies the shirt logo as 'FBM Bike Company.? I will wear it everywhere.
cyclezealot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-02, 05:36 AM   #15
joeprim
Senior Member
 
joeprim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Neck Tidewater Va.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow who conviced you guys that speed limits make any sense at all? I will yield the right of way to anyone, but if no one is around why do I care about the numbers on a sign made up by the worst morons in the world - elected officials.

If folks are killing themselvs racing it seems like a self fixing problem doesn't it?

Relax ride your bikes and just watch out for the idiots that drive so close to each other that if anything goes wrong they are all in the accident.

Joe
joeprim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-02, 09:59 AM   #16
Matadon
Mister Slick
 
Matadon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by joeprim
Wow who conviced you guys that speed limits make any sense at all? I will yield the right of way to anyone, but if no one is around why do I care about the numbers on a sign made up by the worst morons in the world - elected officials.



If folks are killing themselvs racing it seems like a self fixing problem doesn't it?



Relax ride your bikes and just watch out for the idiots that drive so close to each other that if anything goes wrong they are all in the accident.



Joe

Actually, the numbers on that sign are made up by traffic engineers, people with extensive education in moving cars around. The people that hire them are elected officials; and if the latter are the worst morons in the world, why did you elect them?

I'm with George Carlin on this one -- we complain about having incompetent elected officials, but who chose to put them there?
Matadon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-02, 10:40 AM   #17
kobyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Castle, IN
Bikes: Cannondale R600, Huffy 10-speed, and a Mongoose
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree with many of the earlier posts. Speeding is bad. A few years ago, 3 students were killed at my old high school because they were speeding and hit a truck. The 3 students were killed almost instantly as the car flipped into the air, spun in mid air, and landed on it's roof in a corn field. Upon landing, it exploded. The driver of the truck survived. For a graduating class of only 60 students, to lose 3 of their classmates and friends in one car crash can be devastating.

I typically do not go over the speed limit because of that and so that I can not feel bad about critizing other drivers that do speed. The only time I do not obey the speed limit is during rush hour in Indianapolis or any larger city. When heavy traffic is moving 75MPH in a 55MPH zone, you are much safer doing 75 than 55.

I make a full and complete stop at all stop signs. Only after I come to a full and complete stop do I look around for approaching cars, bikes, people, airplanes, boats, etc. Wait, boats on a road? I must still be on my endorphin high.

At stoplights, if the light turns yellow and I can stop before I reach the line, then I will. I have been inches from being hit by a semi truck running a red light. I came to a stop at a red light. His light turned red and my light turned green 3 seconds after his light turned red. I released the brake, looked both ways and had to slam on the brake to avoid getting t-boned. He never hit the brake, never hit the horn, and never took his foot off of the gas.

The only time I will do a rolling stop at a stop sign or run a red light is when the road conditions will not let me start moving again. I once stopped for a red light while going up a hill. The light turned green and as soon as I touched the gas my tires started spinning on the fresh ice. When that happened I started sliding downhill backwards towards oncoming traffic.
kobyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-02, 12:00 PM   #18
cyclezealot
Senior Member
 
cyclezealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fallbrook,Calif./Palau del Vidre, France
Bikes: Klein QP, Fuji touring, Surly Cross Check, BCH City bike
Posts: 13,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Joeprim. Joe. Not sure about the wisdom of who puts numbers on signs; but, When driving, the idiot lane changers, those who pass on yellow and all the other aggressive behavior, I see: well, if only the nuts would hit one another and not me- ok.
But chain reactions, erratic steering maneuvers can cause road rage to get out of control, drive off the road and into the bike lane. We could be there. I for one find driving to be a miserable experience due to the impatience of the motoring primate.
cyclezealot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-02, 01:05 PM   #19
joeprim
Senior Member
 
joeprim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Neck Tidewater Va.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cyclezealot
Joeprim. Joe. Not sure about the wisdom of who puts numbers on signs; but, When driving, the idiot lane changers, those who pass on yellow and all the other aggressive behavior, I see: well, if only the nuts would hit one another and not me- ok.
But chain reactions, erratic steering maneuvers can cause road rage to get out of control, drive off the road and into the bike lane. We could be there. I for one find driving to be a miserable experience due to the impatience of the motoring primate.
Agree with that part. which means that you can slow up and leave the clump of idiots ahead of you or speed up and get away from them if you are also driving. And there are some roads I won't bike on because of the fruit cake drivers.

I keep voting no leave the office empty, but it takes more than one vote.

Sorry about your class mates and yes you can drive faster than the road or your skill allows, but not usually related to the numbers on a sign. If you read you post carefullt I think you will see that you need to be looking around more weather you are stopped or rolling.

Joe
joeprim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-02, 03:55 PM   #20
Amir R. Pakdel
Raised by beavers.
 
Amir R. Pakdel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada, Vancouver. Wave if you ever see me.
Bikes:
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by joeprim
Wow who conviced you guys that speed limits make any sense at all? I will yield the right of way to anyone, but if no one is around why do I care about the numbers on a sign made up by the worst morons in the world - elected officials.
That is a rather major misconception.

Things such as speed limits are determined by civil engineers, politicians have almost no say in it.

And civil engineers don't just sit down and randomly select a speed limit number. They carry out extensive calculations based on kinetic physics and probabilty factors and various statistics data to determine what is the safest and also most economic.

Their jobs don't stop there. They are also the ones that decide how many lanes there should be in a high way, where the intersections should be, how the traffic light timings should be, etc etc.

The fact that you can get from point A to point B in a city is 90% thanx to the civil engineers.

It's okay though; not many people realize it. That's why engineering is known to be the "invisible profession"
Amir R. Pakdel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-02, 05:27 AM   #21
joeprim
Senior Member
 
joeprim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Neck Tidewater Va.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Amir R. Pakdel


That is a rather major misconception.

Things such as speed limits are determined by civil engineers, politicians have almost no say in it.

And civil engineers don't just sit down and randomly select a speed limit number. They carry out extensive calculations based on kinetic physics and probabilty factors and various statistics data to determine what is the safest and also most economic.

Their jobs don't stop there. They are also the ones that decide how many lanes there should be in a high way, where the intersections should be, how the traffic light timings should be, etc etc.

The fact that you can get from point A to point B in a city is 90% thanx to the civil engineers.

It's okay though; not many people realize it. That's why engineering is known to be the "invisible profession"
That may be true in California - they even have discovered large enough to read road signs to read them before you've past the turn you wanted. And in Canada, but here in Virginia I don't believe it. And the roads here are better than any other East Coast roads going North untill you get to N.H.

No sholders not even for cars to avoid collisions much less bicycles. So many traffic lights in towns that you can't move. The best one is curved bridges - with signs as you enter "bridge freezes befor road surface". So why make it curved?

Traffic Lights can be requested without explanation my county supervisiers. Speed limits are pushed by insurance companies. The accident rate as a function of speed is too low to affect anyone else.

Sorry guys drive/ride defensivly stop wanted the government to make laws to make you safe - it can't. You and only you are responsible for you.

Joe
joeprim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-02, 05:52 AM   #22
nathank
cycle-powered
 
nathank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Munich Germany (formerly Portland OR, Texas)
Bikes: '02 Specialized FSR, '03 RM Slayer, '99 Raleigh R700, '97 Norco hartail, '89 Stumpjumper
Posts: 1,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by joeprim
Wow who conviced you guys that speed limits make any sense at all? I will yield the right of way to anyone, but if no one is around why do I care about the numbers on a sign made up by the worst morons in the world - elected officials.

If folks are killing themselvs racing it seems like a self fixing problem doesn't it?

Relax ride your bikes and just watch out for the idiots that drive so close to each other that if anything goes wrong they are all in the accident.

Joe
no, speed limits aren't perfect and traffic engineers make mistakes, etc. - so yes, there are plenty of times when the speed limit isn't absolutely correct. and yes, the weather or whatever must be considered to determine an actual safe speed, but then speed limits are supposed to 'recommended maximums under ideal conditions'. unfortunately since most people treat them as general guidelines and the general rule in the US is '10-15mph over' the traffic engineers have to make the speed limit lower to compensate...

but i totally disagree with your premise - that government and regulation cannot make driving safer and the individual need only practice defensive driving - to take an extreme example, what about when a drunk driver hits a driver practicing defensive driving? the same can be true is someone is travelling 80mph down a residential street and runs a stop sign, maybe killing pedestrians, cyclists or hitting a few cars...

as for racing - it should also be heavily regulated and punished by the government - and yes, as a teen i raced on the street quite a lot - first cars then motorcycles... but i thought everyone did it and i can control the vehicle really well, so what's the big deal? (although on the good side i never massivley exceeded speed limits or safety in residential areas, only on larger roads and highways...)

i'm not a major 'follow-the-law' guy - i run red lights on my bike if after stopping it's safe b/c then i'm only endangering myself - but things like speed limits protect you from being killed or injured by someone else - an unfortunate necessity when there are more than a few cars on the road - a reality today.

and aside from education and changing the attitude of every driver on the road, government regulation is about the best way to improve safety on the road - through speed limits and such

i also believe earning and keeping a driver's license should not be a basic right as it is currently in the US, but treated as a special priviledge only given to those who earn it through the proper training and then maintain it through safe driving... more as Europe does where a driver's test is actually something challenging that not every moron can pass if he can insert a key into an ignition and pass a vision test as in the US.
nathank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:35 PM.