invisiblehand

https://tinyurl.com/2evwtc9

Andrew Sullivan and Felix Salmon both reference the video too.

Bekologist

lets take manhattan back to 1986, when the mayor planned for a complete ban of bikes from midtown manhattan.

maybe NYC needs more protected facilities, better enforcement along class II bikeways. As cities develop a critical mass of cyclists utilizing roadway infrastructure for bicycle transportation, compliance with traffic direction, signals, etc tends to increase - there are very few wrong way riding, red light running cyclists in infrastructure rich copenhagen, for example.

glad to see new yorkers are willing, like the rest of americans, to complain about their commutes.

chasm54

This is interesting because it mirrors my own experience with bike lanes in the UK. Too often they trap the cyclist next to the kerb, and then turn into what are effectively MUPs - with cars turning or parking, trucks delivering, pedestrians wandering about, and other cyclists meandering about at 5 mph. All this makes the cyclist more vulnerable rather than less, not least because they are unable to keep up with the flow of traffic and are therefore going too slowly to move out safely into the traffic when they do have to avoid an obstruction in the bike lane. Generally speaking when I encounter a bike lane as poorly designed and positioned as this, I ignore it and ride normally in the traffic. I'm safer that way, and so are those around me. The woman in the video pretty much summed it up for me.

cab chaser

I actively avoid riding in bike lanes, almost every potentially dangerous incident that I have been involved in here has been because I was not taking up my own lane of traffic.

mikeybikes

That's why I don't like bike lanes that are in between the curb and parking lane.

It looks like they took out a traffic lane anyways. Why not just stripe the entire right or left lane as a bike lane? Why'd they have to go and put it between parked cars and the curb?

dynodonn 

Our city just added some new bike lanes, which is fine in helping some beginning riders get used to traffic, but now they have become debris collectors like all our other local bike lanes. Due to budget constraints, our city's street sweeping has been curtailed to the point of being almost nonexistent, which only exacerbates the debris accumulation in the bike lane.

As for the new lanes, a mile long addition has a 5 foot gutter pan on one side, and a 7 foot parking/5 foot lane on the other. On one family outing, two family members defaulted to the empty parking side of the street and going salmon in the process, citing that the 5 foot gutter lane as being "too tight" with traffic.

genec

The problem is not the bike lane, the problem is the poor design of the bike lane... some of the cyclists mentioned very specific issues... "everyone takes a left off of first;" "pedestrians;" "cars parked in the bike lanes."

First and foremost the bikelane is poorly designed... apparently on the wrong side of the street, second there is no enforcement of the BL... the classic problem for cyclists, no matter where they ride... in a BL or on the road, as long as there is a lack of enforcement, motorists will try to get away with anything and cyclists will be the victims.

Now all that said, what is the solution? How about sharrows... or better yet, train motorists that cyclists have the same rights to the road as motorists and ticket wrong way cyclists.

rogwilco

Even so. At the very least they tell the car drivers: "There are cyclists here too, and they're supposed to be. Take care!" Some ignore it anyway, but not the majority.

I agree that bike lanes like the one on 1st avenue NYC there in the video there are a bad idea, especially when they are partly seperated from "ordinary" traffic.

RazrSkutr

So you'd put the bikelane on the other side of the street and then do what for a cyclist that wants to take a left? Signalized intersection for bicycle traffic? Are there any of those in the USA yet?

What's wrong with the alternative of just "flying down the right hand side" as one interviewee suggested, for those that want to go straight and anyone that wants to go left can stay in the left lane instead of being trapped over on the right.


The latter. Plus educating bicyclists that they have the same rights to the road and should act as traffic.

Bekologist

i wonder why ridership across NYC is on the upswing.

It CAN'T have anything to do with reclaiming the streets for bicyclists as viable transport across New York City.

no motor?

I don't think I can ever complain about salmon after seeing that video. Yikes!

Bekologist

More than 200,000 a day now cycling from the New York Times Newsroom......

over 200,000 a day cycling

"I think it’s kind of amazing,” Mr. Komanoff said, comparing the number of riders now to the 1980s. “I think it is now legitimate to refer to cycling as a mainstream mode of travel. And to me, that is a profound development.”

Zizka

Having the parked cars there makes people feel safe, and it's all about how people feel, not actual safety.

RazrSkutr

Which in turn is from Transportation Alternatives, who have a vested interest in claiming that their bikelane lobbying is bearing fruit. Hardly an unbiased source, and even that source admits that 200,000 is likely on the high side.

Apart from that in order to prove your extremist Segregationist viewpoint you need to show that there is not a similar increase in bicycling in cities with similar starting proportions of bicycle commuters.

It's amazing how you can look at that video and not see the problems with bikelanes in urban environments which lack:
1. Traffic lights privileging bicyclists
2. Law enforcement keeping pedestrians and motor traffic out of the way
3. Laws placing assumed fault on motorists during any collisions

invisiblehand

Now this is a scary statement.

Zizka

Yep. It seems to me to be the most probable reason why stuff like that keeps getting built. What are the alternatives? The only one I can think of is the designers are idiots.

genec

Or not cyclists... and thus have no clue as to what cyclists actually need.

On the other hand "idiot" may also play into it... we had a bike lane designed and built here in San Diego that was done primarily to slow down motorists... This was told to me directly by the engineer that designed the installation. The benefit was not intended for cyclists, but to protect motorists from themselves. I would avoid that BL except that it goes where I go. (I used to take the lane)

dynodonn 

Or just meeting some minimum standard compromise.

Bekologist

Indexed accident rates along NYC bikeways are likely dropping, like other cities in the US that plan for bikes in the transportation mix.

NYC has come a long, positive way for bicyclists since the mid-80s, fer shure.

Zizka

That's what one would expect, but in this case, that bike lane goes against the AASHTO guidelines. They specifically say to never put a bike lane in between the curb and parked cars. They might also have something to say about lanes on the left side of one way streets, but I can't remember.

Bekologist

no, all categories of NYC bikeways are vetted by AASHTO either as standard and accepted design or as an experimental installation that will be assessed for efficacy and safety.


here's a little tidbit - left hand bikelanes on one way streets?

REDUCES CHANCE OF DOORING BY DESIGN.

genec

That is indeed the problem... just meeting some minimum standard.

AASHTO allows bike lanes in door zones... so not such a great standard actually.

Bekologist

how much room do you think you need? 8, 10 feet from the parked cars?

ooooh the dreaded "doorzone bikelane" is so radioactive! Current standard AASHTO bikelanes are not the minefield those that disparage roadway treatments for bicyclists make them out to be.


Anyhooo, Genec -you are familiar with the new buffered Class II bikelanes being implemented in NYC?

here's a link to a film from NYC DOT describing the new NYC roadway design treatments for bicyclists for those disparaging them. NYC has come a long way for bicyclists since the mid '80s.

https://www.streetfilms.org/bike-lanes-in-the-big-apple/

invisiblehand

Is that right? Do you have a cite for that?

I find it surprising considering that the conversations and meetings that I have had locally seem to focus on the MUTCD. Assuming that the bike lane in question falls under the second category, then it appears that the video is rather informative.

invisiblehand

Depends on how many doored cyclists you find acceptable and how much you want to accomodate drivers of vehicles.

I'm surprised, this is so "autocentric" of you Bek!