Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-21-10, 08:39 PM   #1
velosprinter
Commuter
Thread Starter
 
velosprinter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Albuquerque
Bikes: Land Shark
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Man run over by car

Why is it that cyclists get hit, run over, killed and the drivers get a slap on the hand?
http://www.koat.com/news/25470853/detail.html

Then in the comments the "Drivers" say good for the car they gave that cyclist what they deserved.
Anyone care to help me spam the comments?
velosprinter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-10, 09:29 PM   #2
zeppinger
Senior Member
 
zeppinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Seoul, South Korea
Bikes: Giant FCR3, Surly LHT
Posts: 1,987
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Why is running over a cyclist "leaving the scene of an accident" and not "manslaughter? " It seems pretty apparent that it was not an "accident."
zeppinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-10, 09:44 PM   #3
Titmawz
Senior Member
 
Titmawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Miami, FL
Bikes: Raleigh Record Ace, Windsor The Hour
Posts: 635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As far all of that goes this is how I see it... Wanna take someone out in America ??? Just run them over and tell the cops you thought you hit a branch.... oohhh and throw a mangled bicycle by the corpse.
Titmawz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-10, 10:54 PM   #4
CbadRider
Administrator
 
CbadRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the bridge with Picard
Bikes: Specialized Allez, Specialized Sirrus
Posts: 5,962
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Welcome to A&S.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerum 525 View Post
Now get on your cheap bike and give me a double century. You walking can of Crisco!!

Forum Guidelines *click here*
CbadRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-10, 10:59 PM   #5
bhop
Senior Member
 
bhop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes: Bianchi Via Nirone 7, Jamis Sputnik
Posts: 1,894
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppinger View Post
Why is running over a cyclist "leaving the scene of an accident" and not "manslaughter? " It seems pretty apparent that it was not an "accident."
It's not manslaughter because no one died... but I agree that it should be a little more harsh, maybe attempted murder or something..
bhop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-10, 11:47 PM   #6
RichMac
Member
 
RichMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppinger View Post
Why is running over a cyclist "leaving the scene of an accident" and not "manslaughter? " It seems pretty apparent that it was not an "accident."
I think you were going for attempted manslaughter.

As horrible as this incident is, and as much as I think the driver should be punished, I think it speaks more to how detached drivers become when they're insulated inside a vehicle. Real live human beings become abstract.

It's also another example of how easy it is to fall into a pattern of us vs them.... as is very evident in so many topics on this forum...
RichMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-10, 01:31 AM   #7
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMac View Post
I think you were going for attempted manslaughter.

As horrible as this incident is, and as much as I think the driver should be punished, I think it speaks more to how detached drivers become when they're insulated inside a vehicle. Real live human beings become abstract.

It's also another example of how easy it is to fall into a pattern of us vs them.... as is very evident in so many topics on this forum...
Excellent description!!
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-10, 04:55 PM   #8
velosprinter
Commuter
Thread Starter
 
velosprinter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Albuquerque
Bikes: Land Shark
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
+1 RichMac

I am sure most of the drivers out there that post scary things like, "Good for the car" or "they got what they deserve" and even the ones that run over a bicycle in anger would not do the same face to face. TV makes us think differently but the % of the population that would actually look into someones eyes and take their life is very small.

When I put some space around this and look deeply I see that the driver is suffering and seeking some release from this suffering. Isolated, frustrated, they are in real pain and can't see that driving is what got them there. So much worry, will it get scratched, will there be traffic, will I get to work on time, can I afford to fix it when it breaks, if I am late I will lose my job. They saw the commercial of how happy that car would make them but are not happy. I have never heard someone come into the office talking about how great the trip down the interstate was and how they love sitting in traffic.
velosprinter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-10, 05:20 PM   #9
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by velosprinter View Post
Why is it that cyclists get hit, run over, killed and the drivers get a slap on the hand?
http://www.koat.com/news/25470853/detail.html

Then in the comments the "Drivers" say good for the car they gave that cyclist what they deserved.
Anyone care to help me spam the comments?
Drivers who are so egocentric about the road, despite the traffic law permitting bikes on the road, should lose the use of their car for a month. Maybe by then, they will realize that their dependency on OPEC is a waste.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-10, 08:43 PM   #10
DX-MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree it should be attempted murder, or at the VERY least, aggravated assault.

But (tongue in cheek here, but just barely) it's 'leaving the scene of an accident' because no state government has passed a law against 'leaving the scene of an on-purpose'.
DX-MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-10, 10:14 PM   #11
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titmawz View Post
As far all of that goes this is how I see it... Wanna take someone out in America ??? Just run them over and tell the cops you thought you hit a branch.... oohhh and throw a mangled bicycle by the corpse.
That is how I felt when, I was 'run off the road', in 2007.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-10, 03:30 PM   #12
trek2.3bike
Senior Member
 
trek2.3bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Midwest
Bikes: Trek 5.2 and Trek 2.3 WSD upgraded to full Ultegra.
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's out fault. Cyclists just ***** on the internet. They need to get in the face of police chiefs, prosecutors, judges, and, most importantly, legislators. ONLY WE CAN MAKE IT A "BIG DEAL" TO KILL/INJURE A CYCLIST.

The cyclist is just as dead if hit by a reckless teenager than a distracted old fool. If the police continue to treat Motor Vehicle Homicide as a petty offense, drivers will never learn.

The local cycling community needs to take a page from the MADD playbook and hound the police, prosecutor, and courts with all the publicity they can generate.
The media WILL cover any demonstration with 30 or more participants. Use the internet, picket the police department and the prosecutor's office space. Pack the courtroom.
Talk to the press, the radio people, and the TV folks. Use political ACTION and EMOTION (show the family, distribute photos, humanize the deceased cyclist). It works.

If MADD could do it, cyclists can.

This should be done in every location, every time a cyclist is killed. Stop whinning on the internet and put a stop to leniency for these KILLERS. Call them what they are -- KILLERS, not murderers but ordinary, garden variety careless, negligent, reckless KILLERS. And demand appropriate punishment for their HOMICIDE. This was not an "accident."
trek2.3bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-10, 04:12 PM   #13
myrridin
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 2,325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Two points.

1. Most of the time criminal charges are not filed, because the incident is not believed (by the DA) to be provable in a criminal case (or because they don't think a jury would convict) since the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is fairly high and the costs for such prosecution are high as well.

2. Even when criminal charges are not filed, the victim has the option to pursue civil liability which has a much lower standard of proof. In a country that awards millions of dollars to idiots who spill hot coffee on themselves, it wouldn't be hard to punish the driver by bankrupting them. Personally I think this is the appropriate method to hold a driver responsible in most of these incidents.
myrridin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-10, 11:00 PM   #14
Fasteryoufool
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texarkana, AR
Bikes:
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppinger View Post
Why is running over a cyclist "leaving the scene of an accident" and not "manslaughter? " It seems pretty apparent that it was not an "accident."
Well... he wasn't dead.

However, it should've been assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder as well.
Fasteryoufool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-10, 10:50 AM   #15
dougmc
Senior Member
 
dougmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: Giant OCR2, Bridgestone RB-T, Bike-E, Vision R-40, Novara Safari
Posts: 3,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
In a country that awards millions of dollars to idiots who spill hot coffee on themselves
The fact that you've brought up the scalding coffee case here (and gotten the dollar figure wrong) strongly suggests you don't really understand the scalding coffee case.

Read up on it here and here. The main points I'm making is in this situation that it was not a frivolous lawsuit at all and in the end they finally paid out less than $600,000.

You are correct though that the civil courts are an appropriate place to look for justice in a case such as this.
dougmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-10, 10:53 AM   #16
dougmc
Senior Member
 
dougmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: Giant OCR2, Bridgestone RB-T, Bike-E, Vision R-40, Novara Safari
Posts: 3,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trek2.3bike View Post
The cyclist is just as dead if hit by a reckless teenager than a distracted old fool.
If a tandem bike crashes on the Canada/US border, where do they bury the survivors?

Hint: the cyclist is not dead.
dougmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-10, 10:13 PM   #17
Fasteryoufool
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texarkana, AR
Bikes:
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
The fact that you've brought up the scalding coffee case here (and gotten the dollar figure wrong) strongly suggests you don't really understand the scalding coffee case.

Read up on it here and here. The main points I'm making is in this situation that it was not a frivolous lawsuit at all and in the end they finally paid out less than $600,000.

You are correct though that the civil courts are an appropriate place to look for justice in a case such as this.
Not to sidetrack the issue, but it WAS a frivolous lawsuit. She PUT THE COFFEE CUP BETWEEN HER LEGS. Coffee is hot. If you have issues with remembering that (not you personally) then perhaps you shouldn't drink coffee.

McDonald's coffee is bad enough as it is, or was. Dear god, making them serve it cold because you're too stupid to not put hot beverages in fragile containers between your legs? Unbelievable.

People need start taking responsibility for their own actions.
Fasteryoufool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 02:31 AM   #18
009jim
Senior Member
 
009jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes: Giant CRX3, Trek 7100
Posts: 1,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Why is it that cyclists get hit, run over, killed and the drivers get a slap on the hand?
In our society, the car is seen as an essential element of business and authorities are reluctant to do anything which might be a hindrance to business. This attitude needs to change as it's a significant driver of environmental destruction. Our economic system needs to change from one which rewards people who contribute to economic growth, to one which rewards people who prevent environmental destruction. The two are mutually exclusive, i.e. economic growth must of necessity cause environmental destruction.

Cyclists should be provided with discounted taxes in recognition of their reduced environmental impact. But no, what our society does is reduce taxes for people who run businesses that destroy the environment.
009jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 05:35 AM   #19
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Bikes:
Posts: 6,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Article reads like two idiots in a dick waving contest.

How is one sucked under a car that was stopped?
__________________
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
dobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 10:19 AM   #20
Dchiefransom
Senior Member
 
Dchiefransom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Newark, CA. San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes:
Posts: 6,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasteryoufool View Post
Not to sidetrack the issue, but it WAS a frivolous lawsuit. She PUT THE COFFEE CUP BETWEEN HER LEGS. Coffee is hot. If you have issues with remembering that (not you personally) then perhaps you shouldn't drink coffee.

McDonald's coffee is bad enough as it is, or was. Dear god, making them serve it cold because you're too stupid to not put hot beverages in fragile containers between your legs? Unbelievable.

People need start taking responsibility for their own actions.
You REALLY do need to read up on the legal aspects of that case. Coffee from anywhere else would have given her a minor burn. McDonald's intentionally had their coffee temperature higher and had not responded to complaints. I could buy a cup at McDonald's, take the time to put cream and sugar in it, go over and eat my breakfast, then take a sip of the coffee 10-15 minutes after I bought it and STILL burn my lips and tongue. If the suit had come down to where she placed the cup, she would have lost.
__________________
Silver Eagle Pilot
Dchiefransom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-10, 04:12 AM   #21
Fasteryoufool
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texarkana, AR
Bikes:
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dchiefransom View Post
You REALLY do need to read up on the legal aspects of that case. Coffee from anywhere else would have given her a minor burn. McDonald's intentionally had their coffee temperature higher and had not responded to complaints. I could buy a cup at McDonald's, take the time to put cream and sugar in it, go over and eat my breakfast, then take a sip of the coffee 10-15 minutes after I bought it and STILL burn my lips and tongue. If the suit had come down to where she placed the cup, she would have lost.
I'm aware that it was the temperature that made a difference - it was still friggin' moronic of her to put it between her legs. That in my eyes makes it her friggin' fault. I know better than to put a fragile paper or styrofoam cup of coffee between my legs in a car, no matter where it's from or at what temperature it has been served. Basically, I'm too intelligent to want even a 1st degree burn in that area.
Fasteryoufool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-10, 10:36 AM   #22
DX-MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dchiefransom View Post
You REALLY do need to read up on the legal aspects of that case. Coffee from anywhere else would have given her a minor burn. McDonald's intentionally had their coffee temperature higher and had not responded to complaints. I could buy a cup at McDonald's, take the time to put cream and sugar in it, go over and eat my breakfast, then take a sip of the coffee 10-15 minutes after I bought it and STILL burn my lips and tongue. If the suit had come down to where she placed the cup, she would have lost.
As she should have -- yes, 2nd-degree burns are worse than 1st-degree, but being burned is being burned; if you step too close to lava flowing in Hawaii, burn through your shoes and lose a toe, is it Hawaii's fault? Personal responsibility would have kept her from placing herself in a position to get burned from something that's KNOWN to be hot (TOO hot is a moot issue).
DX-MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-10, 08:29 PM   #23
KD5NRH
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Bikes:
Posts: 2,593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
Personal responsibility would have kept her from placing herself in a position to get burned from something that's KNOWN to be hot (TOO hot is a moot issue).
Best analogy I've heard is that it's like shooting yourself in the groin with a .44 Magnum, then suing the manufacturer because it did so much more damage than a .25ACP would have.
KD5NRH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-10, 08:49 AM   #24
SlimAgainSoon
Senior Member
 
SlimAgainSoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Down South
Bikes:
Posts: 1,261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Whoa ... the comments on that story were some of the worst ever.

Let me scratch Albuquerque off my list.
SlimAgainSoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:18 AM.