Opinion piece in local paper
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Opinion piece in local paper
I was reading a local paper and stumbled upon this little gem of an opinion piece. It's part of a call-in/write-in open forum that the paper provides called "The Last Word." A local citizen says:
“I wish the bicyclists could stay off roads that lack a shoulder. Brick Bat, News, Jolly Pond and Cranston Mill Pond roads present great scenic bike trips, but they are an accident waiting to happen. I wish bicycling could be limited to the roads that have designated bike lanes. I don't understand why bikes are given such a broad berth when it comes to traveling on roads without bike lanes. A lot of money was spent to build the bike lanes, but I rarely see bicyclists using them. Luckily, my school bus was empty and the Dominion Power truck coming at me as well as the other cars behind it chose to stay behind the two bicyclists recently as I rounded the curve. If there isn't a bike lane, bicyclists shouldn't be on the road with motorists. The roads are meant for vehicles.”
Voice your opinions here: https://www.vagazette.com/news/opinion/lastword/
“I wish the bicyclists could stay off roads that lack a shoulder. Brick Bat, News, Jolly Pond and Cranston Mill Pond roads present great scenic bike trips, but they are an accident waiting to happen. I wish bicycling could be limited to the roads that have designated bike lanes. I don't understand why bikes are given such a broad berth when it comes to traveling on roads without bike lanes. A lot of money was spent to build the bike lanes, but I rarely see bicyclists using them. Luckily, my school bus was empty and the Dominion Power truck coming at me as well as the other cars behind it chose to stay behind the two bicyclists recently as I rounded the curve. If there isn't a bike lane, bicyclists shouldn't be on the road with motorists. The roads are meant for vehicles.”
Voice your opinions here: https://www.vagazette.com/news/opinion/lastword/
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Here's mine:
“... I wish bicycling could be limited to the roads that have designated bike lanes. ... If there isn't a bike lane, bicyclists shouldn't be on the road with motorists. The roads are meant for vehicles.”
Although the heading said, "Share the Road," this letter was all about NOT sharing the road.
Roads are for people, not just people in cars. If there is a safe, well-engineered bike lane along a reasonable route from my origin to my desired destination, I shall generally use it when cycling. However, everyone has the fundamental right to use our public roadways in a prudent fashion. That bicyclist who may inconvenience you momentarily has as much right to use the road as any motor vehicle, including a big slow-moving truck. Roads are for people, not just people in cars.
John E.
“... I wish bicycling could be limited to the roads that have designated bike lanes. ... If there isn't a bike lane, bicyclists shouldn't be on the road with motorists. The roads are meant for vehicles.”
Although the heading said, "Share the Road," this letter was all about NOT sharing the road.
Roads are for people, not just people in cars. If there is a safe, well-engineered bike lane along a reasonable route from my origin to my desired destination, I shall generally use it when cycling. However, everyone has the fundamental right to use our public roadways in a prudent fashion. That bicyclist who may inconvenience you momentarily has as much right to use the road as any motor vehicle, including a big slow-moving truck. Roads are for people, not just people in cars.
John E.
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Your message is just the thing that needs to be published as a responce to that letter. Did you send that exact message to them? You sound like you are pretty good in that situation. I stumble all over myself. Please let that hag know where her real place is. wfin2004
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Writers like this one are part of the reason bike lanes are generally a bad idea. They make non-cyclists think that's where we belong. If you support bike lanes, you are partly responsible for the writer's opinion.
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Originally Posted by Daily Commute
Writers like this one are part of the reason bike lanes are generally a bad idea. They make non-cyclists think that's where we belong. If you support bike lanes, you are partly responsible for the writer's opinion.
Then it's GG to you. Mucho useless if you ask me.
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December 4 - 11, I'll be in Williamsburg. I'll be riding!~
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I live in an area that is only accessible by curvy, two lane mountain roads with no shoulder. Lots of cyclists ride on them, especially on the weekends. I have no problem passing them when I am driving my car. What do I get stuck behind which really slows me down? Slow moving CARS with drivers who DON'T USE THE TURNOUTS to let the faster traffic pass. Sometimes they get a parade of ten cars behind them. If it's a downhill slope, many of these slow drivers actually hold up the cyclists! Give me the cyclists any day. It's those inconsiderate car drivers that drive me crazy.
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Originally Posted by tcausey
...If there isn't a bike lane, bicyclists shouldn't be on the road with motorists. The roads are meant for vehicles.” /url]
#9
Every lane is a bike lane
Looks like another so-called writer feels like generating a few replies, and sees an anti-bike piece as a way of doing it. The best way to deal with people like this is to ignore them. Don't give him the attention he's so obviously trolling for.
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With an open column in a newspaper, you're bound to get people who post opinions like that.
Personally I see TWO problems, one being the attitude of the motorist in question, but I also see problems with the attitude of some cyclists.
Many/most readers here likely ride responnsibly. However, there are a great many 'casual' cyclists that have no idea that they are supposed to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else.
People here say they should have the same rights as cars AND be treated as such. Yet some riders here think nothing of riding between traffic, riidng up the right side of stopped traffic or generally doing things that cars would not be able to do AND that are against the law. (like not stopping at stop signs or red lights, no hand signals, riding on sidewalks etc, the list goes on and on) When I'm out riding I see these actions every day.
Respect is EARNED, not given. We can't expect to be treated with respect on the road if we (cyclists as a whole) don't treat the roads with respect.
I recall about 25 years ago when I was living in a smaller town they actually had license plates for bikes! All bikes were required to be licensed and to get your license you had to show proficiency at a local exam center. (which they often did at schools a couple times a year) Bicycle related accidents dropped dramatically as did thefts. (since the plate would have the bike S/N recorded on file, and a new plate wouldn't be issued to the same S/N unless you could prove ownership or transfer of ownership) Of course this great endeavour didn't stand the test of time (budget cutbacks) but it does go to show that you can craft a system that encourages responsible cycling.
I think the only way that cyclists will ever get true respect from drivers is if measures are put in place to target/identify bad cyclists. (which they do here in Toronto on a semi-regular basis) Of course the same goes for cars not respecting cyclists, which is also something they target in my city. (officers will occasioanlly patrol the bike lanes for parked vehicles and/or people not respecting bikes.) Too bad it isn't done often enough to create a long-term impact.
Attitudes aren't going to change unless there is change on both sides. When people who ride bikes realise that they have to stop at a stop sign like every other car, then perhaps we'll see an improvement. Until then, I expect attitudes won't change any time soon.
Regards,
Savant
Personally I see TWO problems, one being the attitude of the motorist in question, but I also see problems with the attitude of some cyclists.
Many/most readers here likely ride responnsibly. However, there are a great many 'casual' cyclists that have no idea that they are supposed to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else.
People here say they should have the same rights as cars AND be treated as such. Yet some riders here think nothing of riding between traffic, riidng up the right side of stopped traffic or generally doing things that cars would not be able to do AND that are against the law. (like not stopping at stop signs or red lights, no hand signals, riding on sidewalks etc, the list goes on and on) When I'm out riding I see these actions every day.
Respect is EARNED, not given. We can't expect to be treated with respect on the road if we (cyclists as a whole) don't treat the roads with respect.
I recall about 25 years ago when I was living in a smaller town they actually had license plates for bikes! All bikes were required to be licensed and to get your license you had to show proficiency at a local exam center. (which they often did at schools a couple times a year) Bicycle related accidents dropped dramatically as did thefts. (since the plate would have the bike S/N recorded on file, and a new plate wouldn't be issued to the same S/N unless you could prove ownership or transfer of ownership) Of course this great endeavour didn't stand the test of time (budget cutbacks) but it does go to show that you can craft a system that encourages responsible cycling.
I think the only way that cyclists will ever get true respect from drivers is if measures are put in place to target/identify bad cyclists. (which they do here in Toronto on a semi-regular basis) Of course the same goes for cars not respecting cyclists, which is also something they target in my city. (officers will occasioanlly patrol the bike lanes for parked vehicles and/or people not respecting bikes.) Too bad it isn't done often enough to create a long-term impact.
Attitudes aren't going to change unless there is change on both sides. When people who ride bikes realise that they have to stop at a stop sign like every other car, then perhaps we'll see an improvement. Until then, I expect attitudes won't change any time soon.
Regards,
Savant
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Originally Posted by Chris L
Looks like another so-called writer feels like generating a few replies, and sees an anti-bike piece as a way of doing it. The best way to deal with people like this is to ignore them. Don't give him the attention he's so obviously trolling for.
Originally Posted by Savant
Respect is EARNED, not given. We can't expect to be treated with respect on the road if we (cyclists as a whole) don't treat the roads with respect.
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riidng up the right side of stopped traffic
GG.
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Originally Posted by operator
responding to, "riding up the right side of stopped traffic."
I'd like to see you get ANYWHERE downtown faster than a car without doing that. Or if not passing on the right, passing on their left.
I'd like to see you get ANYWHERE downtown faster than a car without doing that. Or if not passing on the right, passing on their left.
#14
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Originally Posted by Chris L
The best way to deal with people like this is to ignore them.
In my area, there was a increase in funding for certain infrustucture for cyclists because public opinion at the time showed a possible increase in future cycling if these items were installed. Doesn't matter if the items were needed or the best way to deal with the problems that these items were supposed to solve. It was public opinion that got the funding to get these things installed.
Some writers are influential in changing public opinion and policy and we don't want them to discourage cycling based on a profit motive due to the smaller customer base of readers, (cyclists) causeing a loss of convieniance to the larger customer base of readers (motorists) because as we know, cycling is part of a solution to traffic problems, not part of the problem.
#15
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To be the devils advocate here, it is the taxes on cars such as registration and gas that fund the highways and streets so why exactly should bicycles have the same rights on the roads as cars? Possibly if cyclists were forced to pay some annual fee (tax) to ride on roads off the bike paths and shoulders then other motorists would show less resent toward bicyclists?
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Originally Posted by Savant
With an open column in a newspaper, you're bound to get people who post opinions like that.
Personally I see TWO problems, one being the attitude of the motorist in question, but I also see problems with the attitude of some cyclists.
Many/most readers here likely ride responnsibly. However, there are a great many 'casual' cyclists that have no idea that they are supposed to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else.
People here say they should have the same rights as cars AND be treated as such. Yet some riders here think nothing of riding between traffic, riidng up the right side of stopped traffic or generally doing things that cars would not be able to do AND that are against the law. (like not stopping at stop signs or red lights, no hand signals, riding on sidewalks etc, the list goes on and on) When I'm out riding I see these actions every day.
Respect is EARNED, not given. We can't expect to be treated with respect on the road if we (cyclists as a whole) don't treat the roads with respect.
Personally I see TWO problems, one being the attitude of the motorist in question, but I also see problems with the attitude of some cyclists.
Many/most readers here likely ride responnsibly. However, there are a great many 'casual' cyclists that have no idea that they are supposed to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else.
People here say they should have the same rights as cars AND be treated as such. Yet some riders here think nothing of riding between traffic, riidng up the right side of stopped traffic or generally doing things that cars would not be able to do AND that are against the law. (like not stopping at stop signs or red lights, no hand signals, riding on sidewalks etc, the list goes on and on) When I'm out riding I see these actions every day.
Respect is EARNED, not given. We can't expect to be treated with respect on the road if we (cyclists as a whole) don't treat the roads with respect.
In principle, I would be for some sort of registration scheme for cyclists, as it would mean that everyone was taught to ride sensibly and responsibly and those who didn't would be easier (in theory) to track down and educate or even prosecute.
One of the main problems is that too many drivers think they own the road and nobody else should be on their road, in their way or, the worst sin of all, be in front of them keeping to the speed limit and obeying all the laws!
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Originally Posted by RoadKill
To be the devils advocate here, it is the taxes on cars such as registration and gas that fund the highways and streets so why exactly should bicycles have the same rights on the roads as cars? Possibly if cyclists were forced to pay some annual fee (tax) to ride on roads off the bike paths and shoulders then other motorists would show less resent toward bicyclists?
And don't argue about bike lanes and bike paths. Bike lanes are there for the convenience of motorists, not bicyclists. They are generally anti-bicycle because they effectively remove us from 93% of the road. Bike paths are recreational facilities, which government provides to everyone. They are also no subsitute for access to the roads. If bike paths become an argument to keep us off the roads, I say rip 'em up.
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Originally Posted by RoadKill
To be the devils advocate here, it is the taxes on cars such as registration and gas that fund the highways and streets so why exactly should bicycles have the same rights on the roads as cars? Possibly if cyclists were forced to pay some annual fee (tax) to ride on roads off the bike paths and shoulders then other motorists would show less resent toward bicyclists?
Already beat this one to death too. Not enough frigging cyclists for it to be profitable. Don't forget about all the schoolchildren and little kids on bicycles and tricycles. You going to charge them too?
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Originally Posted by operator
I'd like to see you get ANYWHERE downtown faster than a car without doing that. Or if not passing on the right, passing on their left.
I know it doesn't make sense to wait in traffic if you can squeeze by, but people can't say they should have the same rights as any other vehicle on the road and then expect not to have the same responsibilities as any other vehicle on the road. If they do then then they end up no better than a car that breaks the law by not respecting the cyclist.
In Canada (all provinces) the respective Highway Traffic Acts dictate that cyclists have the same rights as vehicles but also have the same responsibilites as vehicles. While weaving through traffic may be tolerated, it certainly isn't legal.
Examples:
If there are two lanes on the road, the left packed with cars and the right lane with parked cars and space to the left of them, then the cyclist can use the space in the right lane if there is enough room to travel safely. (keeping in mind they are at a greater risk for people opening doors - but an extra wide right lane often takes this into account - and can sometimes even be big enough for small cars, which should be safe enough for the cyclist) However, in this case it is legal to use this lane since there is an actual lane to travel in, and it is not being used by traffic.
If there is a bike lane on the road, then for all intents and purposes the lane can be treated as an open lane and passing is legal so long as you watch for right turning vehicles and other hazzards. However, some cycling advocates feel bike lanes do more harm than good.
If there are two lanes on the road and both of them have traffic in them, then the cyclist is not allowed to pass traffic in the same lanes. (IE by squeezing between two lanes of traffic or between the right lane and the curb) The only exceptions are in cases when a vehicle has signalled to make a turn and/or is waiting to make a turn. In that case one can carefully pass around the vehicle on the side away from the direction the vehicle intends to turn. This exception does not apply to traffic that is going straight but is stopped due to volume. The reason being is that a vehicle could turn at any time, and since they are in front of you and legally have control of the lane then they have the right of way and are entitled to have the space in that lane respected by other cars AND cyclists.
Of course one's local laws may differ, but the bottom line is that we as cyclists can't have it both ways. We can't 'demand' to be treated the same as cars and then toss the rules out the window when traffic backs up.
For some good reading on effective cycling and advocacy, I'd suggest a visit to John Forester's website.
Regards,
Savant
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Originally Posted by Savant
That's the point though isn't it? If your local laws prohibit the passing of cars in traffic...
Regards,
Savant
Regards,
Savant
How many cars on the road do you see actually drive less than or at the speed limit? Nobody demands to be treated the same as a car. That's just silly. People just need to be informed of all the rights that we are afforded by the HTA.
Do you seriously believe in a perfect society where every cyclists follows the laws to the letter that the MOTORISTS will? I bet you a case of beer, they'd still be honking, cutting you off, yelling at you and telling you to ride on the sidewalk and shove something up your somewhere. Laws are broken everywhere every single second of the day.
Laws prohibit a lot of things, some are stupid some are not.
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Originally Posted by Savant
...Personally I see TWO problems, one being the attitude of the motorist in question, but I also see problems with the attitude of some cyclists....
...People here say they should have the same rights as cars AND be treated as such. Respect is EARNED, not given. We can't expect to be treated with respect on the road if we (cyclists as a whole) don't treat the roads with respect...
...I think the only way that cyclists will ever get true respect from drivers is...
...People here say they should have the same rights as cars AND be treated as such. Respect is EARNED, not given. We can't expect to be treated with respect on the road if we (cyclists as a whole) don't treat the roads with respect...
...I think the only way that cyclists will ever get true respect from drivers is...
Cyclists don't have the same rights as cars because they say so or they want to! It's the law!!! It has nothing to do with respect. By the way, in California it is legal for bikes and motorcycles to share a lane with a car.
Some drivers respect for cyclists because they are human beings, not because of anything the cyclist did or did not do.
Tom
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Originally Posted by operator
Yak yak, you're assuming all motorists are also driving within the law, painting the cyclists as the bad guy.
I'll never forget seeing an incident where a cyclist was weaving through traffic between the lanes, and when a car changed lanes he nearly creamed himself on the rear of the car since he was flying through traffic while the cars were crawling. This cyclist had the audacity to bang on the car window and scream at the driver, who legally had the right of way. I, on the other hand, was on my bike, sitting two cars back, working my way though traffic like everyone else.
As an aside, I tend to find that I get more courtesey and respect from drivers when I ride with traffic like everyone else. Perhaps the fact I'm in the same position (relatively speaking) makes my presense easier to distinguish. Whatever the case I've never had a close call in heavy traffic when I behave lke a car, whereas I used to have close calls often in my younger (novice) years when I had little respect for rules of the road.
Originally Posted by JavaMan
Cyclists don't have the same rights as cars because they say so or they want to! It's the law!!! It has nothing to do with respect.
Regards,
Savant
#24
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Originally Posted by tcausey
Luckily, my school bus was empty and the Dominion Power truck coming at me as well as the other cars behind it chose to stay behind the two bicyclists recently as I rounded the curve.”
The problems occur when the cars pass the cyclists without having a view of oncoming traffic, like when they are coming over a hill, or going around a bend. Recently I've been riding more in the suburban areas (as opposed to farm land), and I coming to realize that many drivers don't use good judgement when passing me from behind. So I try and compensate by slowing down or speeding up as appropriate to avoid blind spots. Heck, the other day there was a straight, flat road in front of me for a 1/4 mile with no oncoming traffic, but this lady driving some minivan/SUV was practically tailgating me (I'm only going like 17MPH) because she was afraid of going over the yellow line, I guess. I left her there for about 40 seconds before I got annoyed enough to pull over and let her by. And of course she had a line of about 5 other cars behind her. Basically, I often find myself thinking for the driver of the car. It's aggravating.
#25
Every lane is a bike lane
Originally Posted by Savant
People here say they should have the same rights as cars AND be treated as such. Yet some riders here think nothing of riding between traffic, riidng up the right side of stopped traffic or generally doing things that cars would not be able to do AND that are against the law.
Originally Posted by Savant
Respect is EARNED, not given. We can't expect to be treated with respect on the road if we (cyclists as a whole) don't treat the roads with respect.
<snip>
I think the only way that cyclists will ever get true respect from drivers is if measures are put in place to target/identify bad cyclists. (which they do here in Toronto on a semi-regular basis) Of course the same goes for cars not respecting cyclists, which is also something they target in my city. (officers will occasioanlly patrol the bike lanes for parked vehicles and/or people not respecting bikes.) Too bad it isn't done often enough to create a long-term impact.
<snip>
I think the only way that cyclists will ever get true respect from drivers is if measures are put in place to target/identify bad cyclists. (which they do here in Toronto on a semi-regular basis) Of course the same goes for cars not respecting cyclists, which is also something they target in my city. (officers will occasioanlly patrol the bike lanes for parked vehicles and/or people not respecting bikes.) Too bad it isn't done often enough to create a long-term impact.
This leads to the second point -- "respect" is a vastly overrated concept. I could care less if I'm "respected" by a driver who's not watching what they are doing. All I really want from drivers is compliance -- and I know from experience that following the laws myself is not going to make anybody else do it.
Originally Posted by Savant
Attitudes aren't going to change unless there is change on both sides. When people who ride bikes realise that they have to stop at a stop sign like every other car, then perhaps we'll see an improvement. Until then, I expect attitudes won't change any time soon.
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