CommuterRun

Man killed on Memorial Bridge in Clearwater.

https://www.baynews9.com/article/news...-in-Clearwater

While this is a very rare occurrence, this is one reason why vehicles, of which a bicycle very much is, need to stay off pedestrian ways and on the road with the other vehicles.

serra

And also a good reason why you should never let some one ride on your handlebars. If no one had been sitting there, the cyclists pedaling probably would have seen the guy.

Digital_Cowboy

Exactly, this is a good example of why (despite what some might think) that the laws do apply to us equally. And I know that Florida law prohibits more people than the bike is/was designed for from riding on it. IF the police enforced all of the statute as much as they do their interpretation of the FRAP section this collision and death could have been avoided.

Hopefully this will result (at least in the short term) of the LEOs cracking down on cyclists riding passengers on the handlebars.

One of the comments that I had to "laugh" at was someone saying that the police will probably "chalk it up to an accident" and no charges will be filed against the cyclist. Hmm, how many times have we seen cyclists hit and injured or even killed and there have been no charges filed against the motorist? Or at least not the serious charge of any sort of murder/manslaughter charges.

Aussie_Al

very sad

Kimmitt 

This really is very sad, but I'm not sure what public safety message I'm supposed to get from it. Several pedestrians were almost certainly killed on the same day by automobiles.

Bekologist

RIP.

using this tragedy to rally against bicycle access on MUPs across the florida large causeway bridges is ridiculous.

Suggestions bicyclists should be riding in the lanes of traffic on these monstrosities is highly unrealistic. where do people come up with these anti-bicycling messages?

Suggestions bicyclists NOT utilize walkways on highway speed causeways is a worthless suggestion and would surely prove to be a barrier to popular use of bicycles in clearwater and other barrier island towns with this type of bridge (many cities in FL)

Bicyclists should take the lane on highway speed causeway bridges across the intercoastal waterway, riiiiiight.

what should Florida do, commuterrun? require cyclists take the lane over the causeways? Build shoulders and/or bikelanes safe for you and your canoe to use over the causeways, or mingle peds and bike traffic as is the standard, accepted practice on large, highway speed bridges in this country?

sggoodri

There are some large bridge designs where MUPs are the most practical engineering solution for improved bicycling given the extreme cost of adding right of way width; even John Forester has said this. On such MUPs attention should be paid to good design as well as proper cycling behavior. Riding at night, presumably without a light, with another person on the handlebars on a MUP at high speed is looking for trouble. Note that some large bridges with MUPs carry fully controlled access freeway traffic; in the past no bicycle access was allowed on many such bridges, and the MUP is an improvement.

On other bridges, wide lanes or wide paved shoulders can be provided at reasonable cost. If bicycle traffic is part of the normal roadway traffic and the road crosses a bridge, on-roadway (or wide paved shoulder) accommodation should be provided. If there will be any significant pedestrian use, a sidewalk is desirable.

IMO the biggest challenge with designing MUPs into bridges is transferring the bicycle traffic on and off the MUP at each end without forcing cyclists into a pedestrian mode on crosswalks or directing them into unusual conflicts with other vehicular traffic. Pedestrian mode transitions are especially awkward for groups of cyclists traveling together. The shorter the bridge, the sillier it is to transition cyclists onto a MUP and off again.

genec

Exactly... we should ban automobiles from our roadways! Roadways are for people.

SCROUDS

That's what I said. Bike paths are for bikes and interstates are for cars. If you want to drive somewhere, you have to walk to the interstate.

CommuterRun

Bek, I have looked at several articles on this incident and have found nothing to indicate that Dean Anthony Bartolo was walking in a MUP. I have found one article that states he was in a pedestrian walkway.

So, are you making up hogwash, again, to suit your personal agenda; or do you have information you're not sharing with the rest of us?

Once again you bring up my towing a canoe. But that's okay. I understand that it's just jealousy from someone who's riding is too weak to do that.

CommuterRun

Okay, Bek, apparently it is a shared use path.

From wfin2004's post:



Thanks, wfin2004.

But that sure looks like a real congested stretch of asphalt.

With a nice paved shoulder, even. What happened to the bike lane/paved shoulder utopia you're always championing?

Digital_Cowboy

Yep, but sadly that could happen.

It comes from motorists watching cyclists pulling up into the crosswalk and circling instead of stopping at the stop line. It comes from motorists watching group rides ignoring stop lights and stop signs. It comes from motorists watching cyclists filtering/lane splitting. It comes from motorists and pedestrians getting frustrated with cyclists. I mean stop and think about it motorists want us on the sidewalks, pedestrians want us on the road, and we, we just want to be able to use and share the roads in peace. But it's hard to do when there are people breaking the laws/rules on a daily basis.

Wouldn't the logical thing be to oh, I don't know lower the speed limit on those bridges? As well as lowering the speed on most roads overall?

See above about lowering the speed limit overall.

As I've and others have said, lowering the overall speed limit would be a step in the right direction. If we lowered the overall speed limit on all roads but the interstate roads there really wouldn't be a any need (or at least much of a need) for bike lanes and other separate bicycle/pedestrian facilities.

SCROUDS

I know I'd be happy to chug along (slowly) up the bridge on that shoulder. Looks better then most bike lanes and you don't have to worry about right hooks on the bridge.

But, if you look at google maps, the western approaches to the bridge is pretty hairy, either putting you VCing on the busy road or on the sidewalk for the apporach. Taking Pierce through clearwater as an alt looks easier and puts you directly on the mup via a spiral ramp. If I wanted to go to the beach, I'd probably do this.

Explore it for yourself: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...06158&t=h&z=18

Also, to give you a look at that shoulder and where it starts:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...331.03,,1,7.07

Bekologist

don't leave it up to me to explain communities would never get as many people wanting to take the road on a large bridge like across the intercoastal waterway versus a protected facility, no matter the speeds.

is it really that tough to envision a highway speed bridge with an ample protected facility for bike and ped traffic? that one looks plenty compliant if a little rough, needs a topcoat.

this stuff is pretty basic to highway planners. whats appalling is when new bridges get built in this country and they DON'T include a protected facility for bicyclists and pedestrians.

lowering speeds on all roads except interstates to a family friendly TEMPO 30 zone or 30 km/hr is so, oh, quixotic. nice pipe dream though. these large intercoastal waterway bridges should have at the very least a bikelane, eh.

sggoodri

Google street view of the spiral ramp area shows a cyclist using the roadway coming off the bridge rather than the MUP. The shoulder has ended at this location, but the posted speed limit is 30 mph. A WOL or paved shoulder would be preferable at least until the first intersection. It seems that they didn't plan for cyclists using the shoulder despite the obvious preference of at least some cyclists to use it rather than the MUP.

It's also too bad there are no openings in the barrier near the MUP access points at each end of the bridge. This would allow cyclists to ride faster on the bridge shoulder but still transition to slower travel on the MUP for more convenient access to the destinations served most directly by the paths. Sure, many cyclists could lift their bikes over the barrier, but they shouldn't have to.

But I do I think this bridge is a lot better than most for giving cyclists a choice of places to ride: Travel lane, shoulder, or MUP.

SCROUDS

The real question is... on a hot summer weekend, would the MUP be faster to get to the beach?

Bekologist

speeds off the bridge on the causeway are 45mph posted. Should FLDOT plan for cyclists be in the lane for this portion, or on the narrow shoulder? should the shoulder on the approaches and the causeway be made more amenable to bicycle traffic, or should cyclists simply be expected to take the lane on these 45mph posted sections?

Cyclaholic

That is an awesome facility! why would anyone ride on the road instead?
If you wanted to make the shoulder safe for cyclists you'd have to move that concrete barrier out onto the solid white line.

fetad

Just wanted to present the whole situation as some posts are providing bits of the scenario.

The speed limit is 45mph on the portion of the road after the bridge when you're heading west to the beaches. The very wide shoulder on the bridge narrows to a 3ft shoulder once the bridge ends. I find the shoulder adequate and do not need to take the lane until the next intersection, which has raised turn dividers and a shoulder that goes to the right of the right-hand turn lane. That should be changed.

The speed limit is 30mph near the end of the bridge when you're heading east into downtown. The shoulder disappears on the downgrade about 90% of the way down. You have to merge into the regular traffic lane at the point. The bridge immediately drops you off in the heart of downtown Clearwater where traffic speeds are low.

As others stated, there are no transitions to enter/exit the causeway MUP from the road. The MUP narrows significantly to a narrow sidewalk on the west side of the bridge but remains wide on the east side into downtown. I have no idea if riding the sidewalk is illegal in downtown.

fetad

For the same reason you choose the interstate over surface streets when you drive.

Also the infrastructure in place doesn't persuade you to take the MUP if you are currently comfortable riding roads and shoulders. Coming from downtown if you ride on the road you will not be given an opportunity to use the MUP until it's too late. By the time the bridge is visible, your chance to get on the narrow sidewalk that eventually turns into that beautiful wide MUP has passed. From the beaches you can see the bridge a mile before you get there, but its a very narrow sidewalk the whole way there. You have to ride across 50ft of grass to get to it. Not a huge deal but if you're already on the road and you see that wide inviting shoulder up ahead there isn't any incentive to leave the road.

I don't believe this collision was the fault of infrastructure though. Some kids were operating recklessly and killed someone. That's doesn't serve as an example for why MUPs are bad. CommuterRun's logic could just as easily be applied to any example of motorists rear-ending cyclists and claiming cars shouldn't be driven on any road where cyclists are allowed use.

phoebeisis

Wow, that certainly looks like a very nice bike path/people path.

Does the new Florida law require bikes use it ?

Is it against the law to ride with someone on your handlebars-should be- but there are an unlimited number of stupid thing people do, so maybe it is hard to cover everything.

Is there a bike speed limit on that multiuse path? Once again there should be. Who wants a 30 mph bike blowing by a 2 mph walker. On paths like that keeping closing speeds in the 8 mph( 12 fps) seems about right. A 10 mph speed limit would be reasonable.

Digital_Cowboy

I haven't heard anything that says it does.

Yes, it's covered under FS316.2065 subsection (3)(a)

I don't know, I've never ridden on that particular bridge.

Bdude

It would be nice if they painted a divider along that path. Because people will still swerve in and out, especially if they are side by side. But, people do that regardless. It's like at the bike path in Santa Monica beach. Even though it's strictly just for cyclists, people still jog on there...and they aren't even supposed to! But anyway, I do like how that divider is elevated from the street separating the path and the road.

Cyclaholic

Sounds like an integration issue. That's what you would get when infrastructure is built piecemeal without an overall plan or outcome in mind.

By comparison, I have this...



Separate bicycle 'freeway' with it's own on/off ramps to interconnect with secondary & local paths forming a large network which seamlessly interconnects residential, industrial and commercial areas. I can go just about everywhere and only use quiet neighborhood streets.


...and well lit at night.

68venable

^-------- one more reason id like to move to australia...