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Most bicycle accidents are crashs from the FRONT?

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Most bicycle accidents are crashs from the FRONT?

Old 11-07-10, 10:11 PM
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Sweet, I've never seen this on a motorcycle, but I bet it would help for being noticed. Probably much too nerdy for some though.
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Old 11-08-10, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
Light during the day WILL NOT prevent front accidents. .

https://ibiblio.org/rdu/DRLs/studies.htm

https://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857.full

edit: Every study says lights help, there are simply no studies saying how much light helps. While certainly there is probably a dropoff in effectiveness depending on how bright the light is, what is that dropoff? What amount of lumens do you need to still be effective? A blanket statement like "bike lights won't work" is not based on any science.

Last edited by chrisb71; 11-08-10 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 11-08-10, 08:59 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Sweet, I've never seen this on a motorcycle, but I bet it would help for being noticed. Probably much too nerdy for some though.
That's weird, because here in Indiana I've actually seen quite a few from Harleys to crotchrockets. If you have MC I would strongly recommend you get this because it does make you notice them fast and from a distance.
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Old 11-08-10, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisb71
https://ibiblio.org/rdu/DRLs/studies.htm

https://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857.full

edit: Every study says lights help, there are simply no studies saying how much light helps. While certainly there is probably a dropoff in effectiveness depending on how bright the light is, what is that dropoff? What amount of lumens do you need to still be effective? A blanket statement like "bike lights won't work" is not based on any science.
Wow, where's the science related to onlyh bicycles on those two sites? There was not one, it was about cars and motorcycles which all use much larger lights then on a bicycle thus quicker to see in the daytime. A car moving at 45mph is not going to notice a little 1 1/2 inch diameter headlight, they might notice it if it's flashing, but the key word is might. Cars don't pay the same respect to cyclists as they do to MC's or cars.
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Old 11-08-10, 09:12 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
A car moving at 45mph is not going to notice a little 1 1/2 inch diameter headlight, they might notice it if it's flashing, but the key word is might.
A car will definitely not notice the light, but it's driver probably will.
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Old 11-08-10, 11:37 AM
  #31  
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You fail to mention that those are all aftermarket add-ons that the majority of people don't use. Most motorcycles don't have flashing headlights. I live in L.A... millions of vehicles here and I don't think i've ever seen more than a couple motorcycles with modulating headlights in the 15 years i've lived here.

Personally, I always run my headlight during the day, in flash mode. I believe it helps some. If it doesn't.. well, I have rechargeable batteries so no big deal..

I don't get why you're so aggro against someone using a front light during the day... if you don't want to use one, then don't.
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Old 11-08-10, 12:09 PM
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One subtle attention-grabbing benefit that's been lost in the switch from HIDs to LEDs is that little spectrum shift that the HID gives over rough roads.

I definitely watch for it myself, since I associate it with high-powered cars (no other bikes around here use HIDs).
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Old 11-08-10, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ghettocruiser
One subtle attention-grabbing benefit that's been lost in the switch from HIDs to LEDs is that little spectrum shift that the HID gives over rough roads.

I definitely watch for it myself, since I associate it with high-powered cars (no other bikes around here use HIDs).
Thanks for making the association of HID headlights and high power. Our HID-equipped Prius much appreciated it. <G>
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Old 11-08-10, 02:30 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by doc0c
The only reason a car would hit you from the front is if you were travelling in the opposite lane, against traffic.

Just this morning I was pulling over into a left turn lane to get ready to enter an intersection and make a left hand turn. A big black SUV comes from the left on the other street, making a very wide right hand turn and went out of his lane and into mine and almost ran me over despite the fact I was in the right-hand side of the left turn lane. There are many ways an errant cager can attack a bicyclist.
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Old 11-08-10, 06:17 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bhop
You fail to mention that those are all aftermarket add-ons that the majority of people don't use. Most motorcycles don't have flashing headlights. I live in L.A... millions of vehicles here and I don't think i've ever seen more than a couple motorcycles with modulating headlights in the 15 years i've lived here.

Personally, I always run my headlight during the day, in flash mode. I believe it helps some. If it doesn't.. well, I have rechargeable batteries so no big deal..

I don't get why you're so aggro against someone using a front light during the day... if you don't want to use one, then don't.
I said before that here Indiana I see a lot of those modulating headlights.

I don't care if a person wants to ride a bicycle with his lights on in the daytime, but it's not doing anything for him safety wise other then making him feel like he's safer.
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Old 11-08-10, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
I don't care if a person wants to ride a bicycle with his lights on in the daytime, but it's not doing anything for him safety wise other then making him feel like he's safer.
Your claim makes no sense and is not backed up by any evidence.
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Old 11-08-10, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gcottay
Thanks for making the association of HID headlights and high power. Our HID-equipped Prius much appreciated it. <G>
So are you taking it as a compliment or an insult?
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Old 11-09-10, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by z90
Your claim makes no sense and is not backed up by any evidence.
Your right!...But neither are your claims that using headlights on a bicycle has any evidence.
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Old 11-09-10, 06:18 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
Your right!...But neither are your claims that using headlights on a bicycle has any evidence.
As has already been pointed out, daytime headlights on motorcycles decreases motorcycle collisions. On the most dangerous local highway (the Seward Highway), daytime headlights are mandatory, as they have been shown to increase detection time of oncoming traffic. Modern LED bicycle headlights are capable of putting out as much light as a car or motorcycle headlight. I run a two watt Planet Bike Superflash on flash mode whenever I'm on the road, night or day. It's bright (lights up signs up to four blocks away, even in the middle of the day) and obnoxious, and motorists visibly respond by backing up and not cutting me off.

Many cyclists have had positive experiences with flashing headlights during the day. I've personally had several motorists stop and ask me what kind of headlight I was running, because it was so noticeable. If you really doubt the ability of a blinking headlight to alert motorist to your presence, why not give it a try? Buy a decently bright headlight with a flash mode, and ride around your city. If it doesn't work for you, then ditch it.

Where no study has been done, and no statistical evidence is available, all we have to go on is anecdotes. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that cyclists who run a blinking headlight notice an increase in motorist awareness of their presence. Unfortunately, anecdotal evidence can be far from true. So the best bet is to just try it for your self and see.
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Old 11-09-10, 07:56 PM
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GriddleCakes WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT MOTORCYCLES or CARS. And yes I use a blinker on the front because it does attract attention, but I don't use one during the day, because I have yet to see a blinking headlight used in the day that was bright enough to attract attention. Now maybe the few that I've seen were just weaker older versions, I don't know, I didn't pull them over and ask. But in broad daylight the size of a bicycle light at 1" in diameter will just get lost in the background. Maybe if you buy a $1,200 headlight putting out 1,400 lumens then you may be right, that might work. Because you see, to have the same intensity of a car headlight you need 1,000 lumens to be the same as an older 9006 car bulb on dim, not 700 or so; but there's still that nasty little 1" diameter lens. And a lot of newer cars are running over 3,000 lumens. And guess how many lights I've seen on the road living in a city of 300,000 people that were putting out that kind of light levels (based on just the older 9006)? ZERO. In fact my little 250 lumen light is among the brightest I've seen!! So super bright lights over 450 lumens are not the norm.

Maybe some day a 1,400+ lumen light will be cheap enough for the general population to buy one, but that's not happening anytime soon.

Last edited by rekmeyata; 11-09-10 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 11-09-10, 08:32 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
GriddleCakes WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT MOTORCYCLES or CARS. And yes I use a blinker on the front because it does attract attention, but I don't use one during the day, because I have yet to see a blinking headlight used in the day that was bright enough to attract attention. Now maybe the few that I've seen were just weaker older versions, I don't know, I didn't pull them over and ask. But in broad daylight the size of a bicycle light at 1" in diameter will just get lost in the background. Maybe if you buy a $1,200 headlight putting out 1,400 lumens then you may be right, that might work. Because you see, to have the same intensity of a car headlight you need 1,000 lumens to be the same as an older 9006 car bulb on dim, not 700 or so; but there's still that nasty little 1" diameter lens. And a lot of newer cars are running over 3,000 lumens. And guess how many lights I've seen on the road living in a city of 300,000 people that were putting out that kind of light levels (based on just the older 9006)? ZERO. In fact my little 250 lumen light is among the brightest I've seen!! So super bright lights over 450 lumens are not the norm.

Maybe some day a 1,400+ lumen light will be cheap enough for the general population to buy one, but that's not happening anytime soon.
It's weird how committed and passionate you are to this argument, when you've already admitted that your claim makes no sense and isn't backed up by any evidence.
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Old 11-09-10, 08:51 PM
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You should try this light. Stands out against the background quite nicely, unless you're riding through Vegas. In which case, I doubt that there's anything you could run that'd stand out, day or night.

For what it's worth, I see numerous cyclists running flashers during the day, and they do stand out, to my eyes. Flashing lights don't get lost in the background any more than dayglo clothing does, provided it's a decent light. Most modern LED bike lights are bright enough to be seen from distances important to a cyclist, even during the day. Motorcycle headlights obviously need to be much stronger, seeing how fast they can travel. But lights that're less strong than automotive lights are still visible.
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Old 11-09-10, 11:57 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
That's weird, because here in Indiana I've actually seen quite a few from Harleys to crotchrockets. If you have MC I would strongly recommend you get this because it does make you notice them fast and from a distance.
Modulating motorcycle headlights are actually an old feature that had been eliminated by improved technology -- when I had a motorcycle whose 6V battery was charged by a magneto that pulsed once per engine revolution, the voltage variation to the light was huge. As charging systems improved, headlight modulation decreased, to the point that some people now add it intentionally.

Note that many states regulate the percentage modulation and it's almost never actually a flashing headlight like a bicycle, it's a few % modulation, yet plenty to increase the conspicuity of the light.
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Old 11-10-10, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
But in broad daylight the size of a bicycle light at 1" in diameter will just get lost in the background. Maybe if you buy a $1,200 headlight putting out 1,400 lumens then you may be right, that might work. Because you see, to have the same intensity of a car headlight you need 1,000 lumens to be the same as an older 9006 car bulb on dim, not 700 or so; but there's still that nasty little 1" diameter lens
Indeed, this explains tens of thousands of car accidents every day -- it's simply impossible to notice those little yellow or red so-called "turn signals" in daylight, because they're so much smaller and dimmer than headlights -- many put out less than 100 lumens, vs. 700 lumens for a 9004 low-beam headlight.

Yet people expect other drivers to notice and react to "emergency flashers" and "turn signals" that are smaller and dimmer than bicycle headlights.

Ridiculous. No wonder all daytime motorists are already dead.

Last edited by jputnam; 11-10-10 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 11-10-10, 05:19 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by z90
It's weird how committed and passionate you are to this argument, when you've already admitted that your claim makes no sense and isn't backed up by any evidence.
That's because I am weird. Now that we've got that cleared up, when the bicycle lights can reach 1400 1400 lumens and more at a price the general population can afford then you might have a valid argument for running with them on in the day time. And remember you didn't have any evidence that running a light on a bicycle saved lives either
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Old 11-10-10, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
That's because I am weird. Now that we've got that cleared up, when the bicycle lights can reach 1400 1400 lumens and more at a price the general population can afford then you might have a valid argument for running with them on in the day time. And remember you didn't have any evidence that running a light on a bicycle saved lives either
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