Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-04-10, 11:44 PM   #1
vol
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 3,298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Most bicycle accidents are crashs from the FRONT?

Just stumbled upon this article. The author says:

"70% of bicycle crashes are from the front. If I had to choose between front and back lights, Iíd pick the front.

Think about this: a motorist approaching from behind has his headlights shining directly at you. Unless youíre a complete bike ninja with black clothes on a black bike and a black backpack, the motorist at least has a chance of seeing you. He has headlights to ensure he doesnít run over stationary hazards on the road, so hopefully heíll see moving objects as well. Even cars with broken taillights arenít invisible to following traffic."

Is it so? But usually the tail light is the most recommended and is required by law.
vol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 01:08 AM   #2
GriddleCakes
Tawp Dawg
 
GriddleCakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Anchorage, AK
Bikes: '06 Surly Pugsley, '14 Surly Straggler, '88 Kuwahara Xtracycle, '10 Motobecane Outcast 29er, '?? Surly Cross Check (wife's), '00 Trek 4500 (wife's), '12 Windsor Oxford 3-speed (dogs')
Posts: 1,221
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
According to Hurst's Art of Cycling, 90% of car-bicycle collisions in urban areas involve turning or crossing. As in, turning into or across your line of travel. Which is a lot more likely if other road users cannot see a cyclist on account of their lack of headlights. Even during the day I run my headlight on blink, to try and catch the eye of motorists wishing to cross my path. If I had to choose between a front and rear light (which I don't, with two taillights, two headlights, and spare batteries at the ready), I would ride very, very carefully.
GriddleCakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 05:48 AM   #3
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vol View Post
Is it so? But usually the tail light is the most recommended and is required by law.
In Illinois only a head light and rear reflector are required by law for night riding. I think many states are the same.
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 07:09 AM   #4
Shimagnolo
Senior Member
 
Shimagnolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 7,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
In Illinois only a head light and rear reflector are required by law for night riding. I think many states are the same.
CO: Headlight, red rear reflector, side reflectors.
Shimagnolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 07:10 AM   #5
Pscyclepath
LCI #1853
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scott. Arkansas
Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2, Fisher Caliber 29er, Orbea Onix
Posts: 663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The law in every state requires a white front light, while most give the option for either a red tail light or a red reflector in the rear.
Pscyclepath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 07:37 AM   #6
ghettocruiser
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: dropmachine.com
Bikes:
Posts: 4,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Shrug)

I've had six or seven times I've made contact with a car in the last 10 years, all of them were either (1)passing cars clipping me or (2)passing cars hitting on the brakes immediately after they passed and I bumped into the back of them.

None were serious incidents. And none of them had anything to do with visibility.
ghettocruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 08:17 AM   #7
doc0c
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kitchener, ON
Bikes: 2010 Trek Allant
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The only reason a car would hit you from the front is if you were travelling in the opposite lane, against traffic.
doc0c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 08:18 AM   #8
crhilton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bikes: '07 Trek 1500, '08 Surly Cross Check, '09 Masi Speciale Sprint custom build
Posts: 4,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Get both lights. They're cheap.

Collisions from the front often have to do with intersections. It's not that they can't see you, it's that they miss you while looking at other things they perceived as more important. Plus, you're closing on each other at 20-30mph faster than you would from the rear.
crhilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 08:45 AM   #9
ghettocruiser
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: dropmachine.com
Bikes:
Posts: 4,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc0c View Post
The only reason a car would hit you from the front is if you were travelling in the opposite lane, against traffic.
Forget left turning cars for a minute.

You've never seen a car on the wrong side of the road in Kitchener? Ever?
ghettocruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 09:23 AM   #10
sggoodri
Senior Member
 
sggoodri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Cary, NC
Bikes: 1983 Trek, 2001 Lemond, 2000 Gary Fisher
Posts: 3,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Most car-bike collisions do involve intersection and crossing movements, and so it is the front or nearly front of the bike that collides with the car. This is especially the case in urban areas, where less than 5% of car-bike crashes involve traffic approaching or passing from behind the cyclist. In darkness, other drivers about to cross your path will have a hard time seeing you coming if you don't have a headlamp. So get a headlamp.

Overtaking collisions at night do make up a substantial percentage of fatal car-bike collisions. At least 2/3 of these collisions involve cyclists without lights. The rear reflectors that come with bikes are much less visible than red LED lamps. So get a rear LED lamp. They're not expensive.
sggoodri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 11:10 AM   #11
The Human Car
-=Barry=-
 
The Human Car's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Bikes:
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As far as fatalities go http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/People...3_lblTableName
The front is at 84.8% (92.8% for just cars)
__________________
Cycling Advocate
http://BaltimoreSpokes.org
. . . o
. . /L
=()>()
The Human Car is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 11:24 AM   #12
doc0c
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kitchener, ON
Bikes: 2010 Trek Allant
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
Forget left turning cars for a minute.

You've never seen a car on the wrong side of the road in Kitchener? Ever?
Yes, to both arguments. But as the danger is coming from the front, I can see it and avoid it.

I did overlook the intersection thing tho. If a car pulls out in front of me while biking, while I have the right of way, there is little I can do to avoid that. Blinkies would be useful in that case.
doc0c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 11:32 AM   #13
vol
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 3,298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thanks. Looks like I mis-remembered the law. After reading your replies, I found NY law, and it says (man, a looong sentence!):

"(a) Every bicycle when in use during the period from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise shall be equipped with a lamp on the front which shall emit a white light visible during hours of darkness from a distance of at least five hundred feet to the front and with a red light visible to the rear for three hundred feet. Effective July first, nineteen hundred seventy-six, at least one of these lights shall be visible for two hundred feet from each side."

I think many like myself took rear light more seriously because we ourselves can't see behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc0c View Post
But as the danger is coming from the front, I can see it and avoid it.
It can happen that you see it but can not avoid it--too late, or there are other cars surrounding you.
vol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 08:27 AM   #14
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 7,772
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Light during the day WILL NOT prevent front accidents. Those dopes driving cars either don't care if they turn in front of you, or they didn't see you, in either case a light will not stop them from doing what they do. If you can't see a cyclist in broad daylight there's no hope for you! This has been proven with motorcycles, they run with their lights on during the day and they still get hit, and their lights are much larger and brighter then little bicycle lights that would be completely unnoticeable in the day light.

The only time I turn on my lights, then it's only the flashers, is if its a dark day.
rekmeyata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 10:32 AM   #15
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vol View Post
I think many like myself took rear light more seriously because we ourselves can't see behind.
If you use a mirror you can see behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by from the OP article View Post
Think about this: a motorist approaching from behind has his headlights shining directly at you. Unless youíre a complete bike ninja with black clothes on a black bike and a black backpack, the motorist at least has a chance of seeing you. He has headlights to ensure he doesnít run over stationary hazards on the road, so hopefully heíll see moving objects as well. Even cars with broken taillights arenít invisible to following traffic."
Do you really want to wait until the cars lights shine on you to be seen? Considering drivers regularly over drive their head lights, I'd say no.

Some of my riding is on narrow higher speed roads where there are often few intersection / crossing issues. In this instance a good tail light is probably more important than a bright headlight. Of course I still recommend both.
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 10:44 AM   #16
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
Light during the day WILL NOT prevent front accidents. Those dopes driving cars either don't care if they turn in front of you, or they didn't see you, in either case a light will not stop them from doing what they do. If you can't see a cyclist in broad daylight there's no hope for you!
Ridiculous statement. I can see drivers from cross streets react to my flashing headlight. Their head swivels toward me and they check their speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
This has been proven with motorcycles, they run with their lights on during the day and they still get hit, and their lights are much larger and brighter then little bicycle lights that would be completely unnoticeable in the day light.

The only time I turn on my lights, then it's only the flashers, is if its a dark day.
Ridiculous argument. By this logic, you shouldn't bother to use your lights at night either.
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 10:48 AM   #17
Shimagnolo
Senior Member
 
Shimagnolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 7,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
I have always considered a daytime flashing front light to be useless...BUT...

A couple weeks ago I was riding along and noticed flashes from the sun reflecting off either the glass or bright metal from a vehicle down the road.
At this point it was probably 1/2 mile away, and I hadn't even seen it yet.
As I got closer I was surprised to see it was a *bike* with a flashing front light.
Shimagnolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 12:26 PM   #18
vol
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 3,298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
If you use a mirror you can see behind.
Only when you look at the mirror. You can't keep looking at the mirror constantly, and oftentimes a car or truck passed by me nearly touching me which I would have been prepared had I been looking at the mirror seconds before.
vol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 12:40 PM   #19
jputnam
Senior Member
 
jputnam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pacific, WA
Bikes: Custom 531ST touring, Bilenky Viewpoint, Bianchi Milano, vintage Condor racer
Posts: 1,261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
Light during the day WILL NOT prevent front accidents. Those dopes driving cars either don't care if they turn in front of you, or they didn't see you, in either case a light will not stop them from doing what they do. If you can't see a cyclist in broad daylight there's no hope for you! This has been proven with motorcycles, they run with their lights on during the day and they still get hit, and their lights are much larger and brighter then little bicycle lights that would be completely unnoticeable in the day light.
Yet it's also been proven with motorcycles that daytime running lights significantly reduce accidents, and modulated headlights do so more than steady headlights.

Nothing will prevent all accidents, but turning your back on substantial improvements because they aren't perfect is counterproductive.


Personally, I use a smaller helmet-mounted headlight that definitely helps with being seen by cars. I don't run it most of the time in daylight, but turn it on for areas with difficult visual environments or fast traffic.
jputnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 08:39 PM   #20
chephy
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
 
chephy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Bikes:
Posts: 4,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc0c View Post
I did overlook the intersection thing tho. If a car pulls out in front of me while biking, while I have the right of way, there is little I can do to avoid that.
D'oh! But it's okay to overlook this small point, only 70-80% of bike-car collisions happen this way, after all.
chephy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 10:30 PM   #21
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 7,772
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jputnam View Post
Yet it's also been proven with motorcycles that daytime running lights significantly reduce accidents, and modulated headlights do so more than steady headlights.

Nothing will prevent all accidents, but turning your back on substantial improvements because they aren't perfect is counterproductive.


Personally, I use a smaller helmet-mounted headlight that definitely helps with being seen by cars. I don't run it most of the time in daylight, but turn it on for areas with difficult visual environments or fast traffic.
My point with motorcycles was NOT that they had gotten hit less with lights on but rather when hit the driver never saw them and MC's use a large headlight with some that modulate in the daytime. Now your going to take a bicycle with a small little headlight without the power of the larger ones and think drivers are going to notice you? Forget about it.
rekmeyata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-10, 11:36 PM   #22
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vol View Post
Only when you look at the mirror. You can't keep looking at the mirror constantly, and oftentimes a car or truck passed by me nearly touching me which I would have been prepared had I been looking at the mirror seconds before.
Properly adjusted helmet or eye glass mounted mirrors make it easy to safely monitor often enough to always be aware of conditions behind. If I'm ever surprised by an overtaking vehicle I mentally chastise myself for not paying proper attention. Having said that, I don't see what being able (or not able) to see behind has to do with running lights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
My point with motorcycles was NOT that they had gotten hit less with lights on but rather when hit the driver never saw them and MC's use a large headlight with some that modulate in the daytime. Now your going to take a bicycle with a small little headlight without the power of the larger ones and think drivers are going to notice you? Forget about it.
Motorcycles also are often traveling much faster than bicycles, and their headlights don't flash.

I find I get less "pull out" infringement on my right of way while running my light.
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-10, 07:14 AM   #23
z90
Senior Member
 
z90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Path to Fredvana
Bikes: Long Haul Trucker 2010 , Felt Z90 2008, Rans Rocket 2001, Specialized Hardrock 1989
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Motorcycles also are often traveling much faster than bicycles, and their headlights don't flash.

I find I get less "pull out" infringement on my right of way while running my light.
+1
z90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-10, 08:32 PM   #24
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I have never been hit, but the close calls I've had all involve cars from the side or front. It make sense since the closing distance to a vehicle approaching you is significantly higher than a vehicle you are overtaking.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-10, 09:47 PM   #25
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 7,772
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Motorcycles also are often traveling much faster than bicycles, and their headlights don't flash.
Some don't modulate? really? http://www.gadgetjq.com/headlightmodulator.htm

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Reviewed...h/visipath.htm

And here's the part: http://www.customdynamics.com/signal..._modulator.htm
rekmeyata is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:45 AM.