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  1. #1
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    Blue wall of silence?

    I quick scanned, but didn't see this anywhere, so sorry if it's a re-post.

    Cop kills teen, no breathalyzer done

    More from google news
    HHCMF - Take pride in your ability to amaze lesser mortals! - MikeR



    We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!

  2. #2
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyossarian View Post
    I quick scanned, but didn't see this anywhere, so sorry if it's a re-post.

    Cop kills teen, no breathalyzer done

    More from google news
    Thank you for posting this. It is surprising how many officers will not cross the 'thin blue line', when one of their own is the cause of the problem.

  3. #3
    Je pose, donc je suis.
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    Note that one of the responding officers was the officer-in-question's father.

    Don't expect much.

  4. #4
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    Will the state police investigate like they should or will they do a token investigation before closing it out? A public official needs to take up the cause and call for a public inquiry of the police's handling of the investigation. You can't be objective when you're investigating yourself.
    HHCMF - Take pride in your ability to amaze lesser mortals! - MikeR



    We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!

  5. #5
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    He said that Koistinen never saw Dang because the bicycle had no reflectors or lights on it.
    Riding after midnight with no lights or reflectors is essentially a death sentence. Not smart.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  6. #6
    Senior Member oban_kobi's Avatar
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    "He said that Koistinen never saw Dang because the bicycle had no reflectors or lights on it."

    Even if the officer wasn't drunk, how was he supposed to see the guy? Even on my bike I only see light-less folks about 100 or so feet away, maybe. Not enough time to do much when in a car. The officer should definitely be tested, but the cyclist definitely takes some of the blame.

  7. #7
    enthusiast JamieElenbaas's Avatar
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    "He said that Koistinen never saw Dang because the bicycle had no reflectors or lights on it."

    Even if the officer wasn't drunk, how was he supposed to see the guy? Even on my bike I only see light-less folks about 100 or so feet away, maybe. Not enough time to do much when in a car. The officer should definitely be tested, but the cyclist definitely takes some of the blame.
    Unless, of course there were lights and reflectors on the bike. Don't be surprised to learn that not all statements by cops about cops are fully truthful or that evidence against cops isn't sometimes 'altered' to cover up cop misbehavior. Yes, I don't trust cops.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
    Riding after midnight with no lights or reflectors is essentially a death sentence. Not smart.
    Yes, not smart. Unless that is a total lie being told by the cops to cover up their fault in the accident.

  9. #9
    Senior Member oban_kobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamieElenbaas View Post
    Unless, of course there were lights and reflectors on the bike. Don't be surprised to learn that not all statements by cops about cops are fully truthful or that evidence against cops isn't sometimes 'altered' to cover up cop misbehavior. Yes, I don't trust cops.
    Chances are the cop was telling the truth. Unless you can show evidence to the contrary, his word out weighs your suspicions.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by oban_kobi View Post
    Chances are the cop was telling the truth. Unless you can show evidence to the contrary, his word out weighs your suspicions.
    The whole point of this controversy is that people suspect the cop might not be telling the truth and that other cops might be covering for him. If you suspect that already, is it really that much of a stretch to speculate that the cops might also be "bending" other evidence, as well? If it's true that the cop wasn't drunk, and it's true that the bicyclist wasn't riding with reflectors or lights, then he should have welcomed the breathalyzer test as he'd be very unlikely to face any charges. The fact that he wasn't tested is suspicious.

    As for the value of the cop's "word", it's not worth any more to me than the "word" of any other suspect in a fatal collision. He's got a lot of motivation to lie, and so his word alone shouldn't be given much weight.

  11. #11
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnemia View Post
    The whole point of this controversy is that people suspect the cop might not be telling the truth and that other cops might be covering for him. If you suspect that already, is it really that much of a stretch to speculate that the cops might also be "bending" other evidence, as well? If it's true that the cop wasn't drunk, and it's true that the bicyclist wasn't riding with reflectors or lights, then he should have welcomed the breathalyzer test as he'd be very unlikely to face any charges. The fact that he wasn't tested is suspicious.

    As for the value of the cop's "word", it's not worth any more to me than the "word" of any other suspect in a fatal collision. He's got a lot of motivation to lie, and so his word alone shouldn't be given much weight.

    Riding without lights or reflectors in the dark is pretty damn common.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  12. #12
    Senior Member trek2.3bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oban_kobi View Post
    "He said that Koistinen never saw Dang because the bicycle had no reflectors or lights on it."
    Now you know why every police officer carries a Leatherman tool (with both straight and phillips screwdrives in it).

  13. #13
    Senior Member gcottay's Avatar
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    For many of the reasons shown in previous posts in many (most?) jurisdictions there's a practice of bringing in another agency in situations like this.
    George
    Laissez les bon temps rouler

  14. #14
    I'm band already? lubes17319's Avatar
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    I've driven by many ninja cyclists at night.
    But haven't run any over.........maybe my headlights are that much better?
    Who cares what your bike weighs, just ride it!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubes17319 View Post
    I've driven by many ninja cyclists at night.
    But haven't run any over.........maybe my headlights are that much better?
    I don't understand your point. Are you saying that ninja cyclists are not at greater risk of being hit?

  16. #16
    dirt merchant dorse's Avatar
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    I think he is saying cops rarely patch two words of truth together.

    My apologies to those that do.
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    People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character. Ralph Waldo Emerson

  17. #17
    Je pose, donc je suis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherbona View Post
    I don't understand your point. Are you saying that ninja cyclists are not at greater risk of being hit?
    I think 'lubes' just might be saying that while riding at night without reflectors or lights is a bad idea, that it is still sometimes possible to see and avoid ninjas.

    The subtext is that it's probably harder when drunk.

  18. #18
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    Ninja cyclists are pretty stupid to take the risk, but... isn't it astonishing how many comments are made in the media about how many ninjas people have seen?

    Which, by the way, is not to say that the deaths of some ninjas are avoidable. I suspect that such people also ride in other ways which are unwise/illegal, leaping on/off sidewalks, salmoning, shcnign position without looking, etc.

  19. #19
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oban_kobi View Post
    Chances are the cop was telling the truth. Unless you can show evidence to the contrary, his word out weighs your suspicions.
    like ex-officer Pogan?

  20. #20
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    I would not believe the word of a cop investigating a cop.

    A Honolulu cop driving DUI way over the limit ran a red light doing around 60 in a 30 mph zone and killed a young woman driving home from work. The first thing the cops did arriving on scene was to call the cop union lawyer to come to the scene. The killer cop was allowed to roam the scene uncuffed. The cops originally claimed the young woman ran a red light and the collision was her fault (luckily 3 witnesses refused to back down about seeing the cop running his red). No field sobriety test. No (official) breath test until 10 hours after the collision. Cops even tried to hide the fact that the official breath test was 10 hours after the collision.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  21. #21
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    PS - Honolulu just threw out over 200 DUI cases headed to trial because cops falsified official reports in an overtime pay scam.

    A defense lawyer heard a rumor of the scam and requested the investigation records. Senior cops got the DA to drop the one case to hide the scam. Took a Judge to force cops to release the records to the defense lawyer. Sh*t then hit the fan big time.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  22. #22
    Senior Member trek2.3bike's Avatar
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    Thugs in Blue.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Tom Pedale's Avatar
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    Currently in Seattle, we have an investigation into the death of John T. Williams, a Native-American wood carver who was walking across an intersection with a piece of wood and a folding knife.

    An officer in a patrol car saw this man, stopped his car and got out. He ordered the man to drop his knife. When he did not, he shot him 5 times in the side killing him.

    According to the link below, 4 seconds after issuing 3 rapid commands, the officer opened fire. Not only that, but evidence shows that the knife was folded when it hit the pavement.

    Many in Seattle are outraged over this senseless killing. If this shooting is judged to be justifiable, there will be a huge outcry in our city.


    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ooting16m.html
    Last edited by Tom Pedale; 11-18-10 at 08:55 PM. Reason: correct spelling
    "Learn how to handle hot things. Keep your knives sharp. And above all, have a good time" - Julia Child

  24. #24
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Portland cops kill unarmed black, homeless and mentally handicapped people all the time, and there are rarely any consequences to the officers.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Tom Pedale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya View Post
    Portland cops kill unarmed black, homeless and mentally handicapped people all the time, and there are rarely any consequences to the officers.
    Unfortunately, when these events occur, it's an unfair fight. Police unions and lawyers pile on the oppressed victims who have no resources to adequately wage a court battle.

    "Justice for all" is a slogan without meaning,without context in a society where money will generally win a verdict in your favor.
    "Learn how to handle hot things. Keep your knives sharp. And above all, have a good time" - Julia Child

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